Dave: [00:00:00] When men are around, women who are ovulating, our testosterone goes up. When testosterone goes up, dopamine goes up, and dopamine makes you care about pursuing your
Josh: mission. What are those [00:00:10] things from your past that still bother you today? I think as society, we have become more energetically feminine. 30% decline in 50 [00:00:20] years of testosterone in men, testosterone levels in men have dropped by 33% this dramatic decline of testosterone that's been happening, that is mind-boggling.
Men [00:00:30] today, in their twenties have the same testosterone levels than men did in around World War II that they had in their sixties and seventies, and then you combine that with female fertility and we are having less [00:00:40] kids later on in life. What do you think is causing
Dave: the collapse of testosterone in men and women?
You are listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.[00:00:50]
Josh, you're a chiropractor, you're a nutritionist. And you're also into regenerative agriculture, which is [00:01:00] an unusual combination. How'd you go from medicine to farming?
Josh: Yeah, so, you know, I've always had a passion for food. And, and in fact the reason I originally went to chiropractic school was I was [00:01:10] so into nutrition.
You know, I had a, a mom who had cancer and I saw how devastating that was. And I started thinking when she went through cancer, I thought I, when as she [00:01:20] went through chemotherapy, I thought, well, there's gotta be a better way. There's gotta be a more natural way. So that led me into starting to just be curious about nutrition and health.
And I knew if I got my [00:01:30] chiropractic license, I'd be able to also practice nutrition. And so started learning that. And then my mom got cancer again. She was able to heal completely naturally [00:01:40] following Gersen therapy and Budwig protocol and some of the ketogenics, some of these therapies and. Seeing the results there just kind of continued to lead me down a path of, [00:01:50] Hey, what, what is the optimal way to heal?
What's the, what's the most powerful form of nutrition? I think I, I see this happen a lot. 'cause my first introduction to nutrition was through fitness.
Music: Mm-hmm. [00:02:00]
Josh: And then it was, okay, how do you lose weight? Get your body fat low? How do you generally get healthy? Mm-hmm. And then it was like, Hey, just eat real food.
And then, [00:02:10] you know, it was even beyond that. It's like, I don't wanna just eat real food. I want to eat the most healing foods on the planet. I wanna look younger, feel younger, help people reverse. I. Diabetes, [00:02:20] cancer, whatever it might be. So then that led me into regenerative farming and nutrition. And when I started doing the research on and looking at the nutrients in our food today compared to a [00:02:30] hundred years ago, I mean, our soil is so depleted today.
Our top soils eroding. And so if you don't have healthy soil, you don't have healthy plants [00:02:40] and animals to a degree too. Mm-hmm. So, so that's really what led me into regenerative farming and regenerative nutrition is really looking at, okay, how do we get the most nutrient dense foods [00:02:50] possible? And a big part of it is really building up the nutrients back into our soil.
And there's a lot of people today who are, I think, still pushing this false narrative around, [00:03:00] um, environmental change. I actually do think there is environmental change.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: Which is negative. I don't know that that's leading to global warming and some of those crises, but [00:03:10] it is leading to. Changes in in environment.
So for instance, I don't know that global warming is taking place like people say, but I do know that [00:03:20] when you don't have plants in an area, it gets hotter and it gets colder. It's much more mm-hmm. Harsh. And so all that being said, I do, you [00:03:30] know, with what we're doing to the planet right now it's harming our food.
It's harming our kids, it's harming our environment. And so when I look at regenerative nutrition and regenerative [00:03:40] farming, it's really, Hey, how do we allow blueberries and, and uh, you know, you know, plants and even animals to have much more nutrient dense tissues.
Dave: [00:03:50] When I started out my regenerative farm on Vancouver Island and I built it, 'cause like you, you realize the soil is where it all starts.
Uh, and I wanted my kids to grow up [00:04:00] on that and I wanted to eat my own food as well. Uh, whereas where do you we get good soil? 'cause I was on property, had forest on it, so some parts would have been cleared, but the soil wasn't as [00:04:10] rich as we wanted. So I ended up buying a hundred truckloads of soil from the bottom of a pond on an organic farm that had been running for a hundred years.
And our [00:04:20] garden, I call it a garden, it was a couple acres. Our little farm, it exploded its first year. Mm-hmm. Was as productive as you would expect in the fifth year because the [00:04:30] soil had minerals. Right. And then we had animals all over the farm. And anywhere the animals would poop, we would have this lush Yeah.
Lush stuff. Either [00:04:40] pigs or sheep. Sheep were better for that. And where they weren't allowed to go. It was like scraggly grass. And you could just see right there. And then people would, [00:04:50] you know, buy some of the, the lamb that we made and they would go, what is this? And then our bacon, our, our butcher, he calls it, what did you do to your [00:05:00] pigs?
Uh, what do you mean? And he said, well, your pigs were 250 pounds. I got five boxes of meat. Your neighbor's pigs were 600 pounds and I got [00:05:10] two boxes of meat. The rest was fat. Mm. And it's like, well, we fed them real food with minerals and we intermittent and fasted them. Yeah, yeah. Because the pigs and humans are similar.
So [00:05:20] there's all this stuff we can do. And soil is the biggest carbon sink. Mm-hmm. Right? So if we don't repair the soil, we're not gonna have plants we want to eat. [00:05:30] So we're so aligned on this. And a few, uh, functional medicine guys like Mark Hyman, who's a friend who's been on the show. Yeah. Lots of times.
Wrote a big book about it. What are we gonna do though? [00:05:40] Like, what is the answer to get regenerative ag
Josh: mainstream? Well, this might surprise you, but I think the biggest thing is follow biblical farming principles is [00:05:50] one. Mm-hmm. And also looking at what modern science does today in terms of, you know, let just where, where it's working today.
I mean, new Zealand's a great example of this, and so one of the things that we did at our [00:06:00] farm. And Jordan Rubin and I own 4,000 acres in Missouri and about 150 in Tennessee. Mm-hmm. Where we practice regenerative farming. And we actually have a partnership with Road, the Rodale Institute, [00:06:10] where we're looking at how fast you can build back top soil and what that does to the nutrient density of the plants.
And so we actually have a, a study on this and what we found is, is that [00:06:20] growing, pairing certain plants together, along with having certain animals, graze is the ultimate way of doing this. And then letting the land rest every seven years. And so one of the [00:06:30] things that happens in these motto crops today that are killing the planet when you're, when we're planting, you know, soy and wheat and corn all the time, is you're just essentially just the same [00:06:40] plant is taking the same nutrients and adding back very little.
And then of course, we're tilling the soil, so we're losing all this, all this carbon at the same time. But what you [00:06:50] wanna do is do exactly what you did on your farm. And it is, you have certain animals, strategically, we do mostly cows, sheep, and and ducks. Mm-hmm. And we have them grazing [00:07:00] around and then, you know, you know, they're poop.
They're, they're, they're building back the top soil. And and then that, that soil is creating more nutrient dense foods for them to eat. It's a circle of [00:07:10] life. Right. It's literally the circle of life. And so I think if we get away from Monocropping and we start building these perennial food forests Yep.
And having [00:07:20] silver pasture where the animals are strategically grazing.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: That's, that's the solution. Now, you know, we have to, as a government, incentivize that. [00:07:30] Is actually a huge part as well, but that's, that's, you know, part of the solution.
Dave: Okay. It, it's a, a big shift. We're talking about what do you say to people who [00:07:40] believe that if we stop industrial farming practices that we can't make enough food?
Josh: I, so I sat down with Jordan Rubin and he did math on [00:07:50] this, and we, we, we kind of went through that you can actually feed far, far more people doing regenerative agriculture than, than the monocropping.
Dave: Yeah.
Josh: And [00:08:00] so it's really just a false narrative. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's following the it's following the pri principle of success and that is a little bit of short-term pain.
And maybe it takes a little longer the [00:08:10] first year or two, but then by year three and beyond you're getting so much more. And so really people are not following in, in general agriculture, the principles of success, which is sort of [00:08:20] like, you know, short-term sacrifice, long-term, much greater gain.
Dave: I've noticed that organic standards.
Stop some forms of effective farming. I, I think [00:08:30] organic farming might be a bunch of bullshit. What's your Take
Josh: it. So, so this is hard for, so, so here, here's what I would say. I would say generally, yes.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: I mean the, the amount of people [00:08:40] that are cutting corners by saying something is organic. We, we see this with beef today got, especially with animal products.
I mean, you can call something organic [00:08:50] but then feed it grain the entire year. Yeah. And that's, and so one of the things actually that there are organizations working on is a level, uh, is a certification that's higher than organic and it's [00:09:00] gonna be called Rock. Yes. Regenerative organic certified. And that's gonna be a much, much higher standard, much better quality of a product.
And so, yeah, today you [00:09:10] can go to Whole Foods or go to Sprouts or go to a health food store and buy organic and it's absolute garbage. Mm-hmm. Versus. If you have something that's regenerative, [00:09:20] organic, or truly regenerative, yeah. It, it might be 10 times more nutrient dense. It's gonna be lower in toxins and all those things.
So, yeah, unfortunately, and this, this just tends to happen. People find [00:09:30] ways, these or big organizations to cut the corners and, and just get out the cheapest, viable product that meets the certification standard. Mm-hmm. But oftentimes, again, [00:09:40] you're, you're getting something that is maybe not as toxic as it was before, but in terms of nutrient density, yeah.
Still absolute
Dave: garbage. It, I kind of look at the [00:09:50] Olympic standards committees. You're not allowed to do any of these things. Because that might be cheating. Like, but some of those actually make for healthier and higher performing [00:10:00] athletes. Yeah. How dare you stop that. And then on the organic side, I looked at certifying my farm as organic and I was like, I'm not doing that because if I test my [00:10:10] soil and it's low in a mineral and I want to add that mineral, like, oh, you can't add that mineral.
That's not an organic way to add the mineral. Mm. Like, but the soil microbes need it. Yeah. So I'm like, guys, take the cuffs off. Yeah. And the [00:10:20] question is, what did I do to the soil and did I not use actual toxins? So organic standards are like 1970. You're not allowed to do things that work to make regeneration and health [00:10:30] happen, and you're not allowed to do things like glyphosate that are actually bad for you.
So the standards are stupid and they need to probably abolish them and replace them with this rock standard.
Josh: [00:10:40] Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it, people, people would be much better off if they're doing regenerative, organic. I mean, the whole planet would get healthier. People would get much healthier. Mm-hmm. I think one of the things that I've always appreciated about you, Dave, and I think we share [00:10:50] this, is, you know.
I'm always trying to ask the question as are you not just, what can I get away with?
Music: Mm-hmm. And
Josh: I used to notice this with patients. The patients that would see the best results. There was one of two [00:11:00] questions. Some would be asking, what can I get away with? Mm-hmm. And some were asking, what is just the best thing I can do?
'cause I truly just wanna be the best I can be. And so that's what we [00:11:10] need to be asking. Mm-hmm. What is the absolute best thing I can do to be healthy and, and not, not what can I get away with? I wanna mention too, just sort of with the, um, Olympics or pro sports or [00:11:20] even co collegiate today, you know, one of the things they can't take are things like peptides.
Yeah. Stupid. And, you know, how many athletes would benefit from, especially if they're coming off an [00:11:30] injury, BPC 1 57, TB 500, you know, um, G gh, HKCU, these peptides that are found naturally in organs, in glandulars, [00:11:40] and. People can't use those today, which is really
Dave: unfortunate. Oh, that, that's about to get blown up big time.
Um, I was, I hope so. I was one of the signatories to [00:11:50] the Declaration on Human Enhancement, and I'm advising the enhanced games. And with this, they're gonna take the top five Olympic sports and they're going to allow athletes with medical [00:12:00] supervision to use all available healing and enhancement technologies that aren't harmful.
Mm. And they're gonna break every single world record and make the Olympics look like turtles. Wow. It's like, let's take the [00:12:10] gloves off. Let's not allow people to harm themselves, but let's let them become more powerful using everything available. And we're just gonna show, this is what happens if you're stuck in the [00:12:20] seventies and you're making billions of dollars like the Olympic Committee does, flying around in private jets, versus here's an athlete who's allowed to heal, or here's a 30 5-year-old who's allowed to have adequate [00:12:30] testosterone because the whole world is deficient in testosterone.
But athletes who need it the most, they actually time out because they aren't allowed to have just basic things that you and I are allowed to do. [00:12:40] So let's talk about testosterone. What do you think is causing the collapse of testosterone in men and women? I think it's
Josh: multifaceted. Yeah. So, so let me, let me hit on kind of bullet points.
[00:12:50] The biggest things I think that's causing it. And first off, the, the statistics are crazy. I mean, 30% decline in 50 years of testosterone in men. I mean, men today in their twenties [00:13:00] have the same testosterone levels than men did in around World War II that they had in their sixties and seventies. It's insane.
It's, it's, it's wild. And so, and, and then you [00:13:10] combine that with female fertility and we are having less kids later on in life. I, we're, we're gonna. We're gonna pay for this at some point, or notice things. We already are. We, we [00:13:20] are. Yeah. Yeah, we are. And I, and so when it comes to low testosterone, I think there's a few things happening.
Number one is the dietary changes. Mm-hmm. We went from doing more fat, more [00:13:30] animal products, more vegan, more margarine, more gar nutrient, dense garbage. And so the biggest thing is we have a nutrient depletion in Chinese medicine, they would actually, [00:13:40] they, they create categories here. And one of the categories is foods that are yin and yang, and foods that build qi.
Well, if somebody has a testosterone, low testosterone, in Chinese medicine, it's known as [00:13:50] a qi yang deficiency. And the foods that most build that are liver and organ meats and red meat, and th those are the most yang building of [00:14:00] all. And so a lot of men today are. You know, are not getting this nutrient dense red meat and, and why wild game?
Dave: You know, like women have four times more [00:14:10] testosterone than estrogen also. Right? They're not getting it either. That's right.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. It's also, it's, it's also a major issue actually. Yeah. We're starting to see now a lot of, especially, uh, hormonal experts [00:14:20] and women with these hormonal imbalances, low in testosterone as well.
In fact, I think a lot of women with hypothyroidism, they're not only low in you know, conversion of T four to T three and some of the thyroid [00:14:30] hormones, but I think testosterone's another thing that, it's a huge one. A lot of them are low in, but I would say, yeah, I, I would say lack of nutrients in, in the diet and very [00:14:40] specific nutrients that are more like zinc.
Anabolic. Like zinc. Exactly. That's one. That's one big thing. Now here's another one. This might be a little controversial, I think as a society. [00:14:50] We have become more energetically feminine. And so I noticed that about you. I wasn't gonna say anything. Yeah. And so, and so, but, but [00:15:00] to my point there is, is we've sort of glorified and, and listen, I think it's all about balance.
Yeah. I think it's, you know, we, we want both of these energies, but somewhere in the, after the year 2000, [00:15:10] it became sort of negative to be more masculine in a man. There, there, there's a study and it's pretty interesting. You'll love this. Is that. They, uh, they did a study on men chopping [00:15:20] firewood. Mm-hmm.
And they found that that was more effective at building testosterone than playing soccer, basketball, most sports and certain types of other, like, like training. And so I think there's something [00:15:30] about men hanging out with other masculine men mm-hmm. Chopping wood camping, doing those things. And so I think there's even a cultural thing that's causing testosterone.
I'll [00:15:40] tell you a story. When I, when I first moved to Nashville, Tennessee mm-hmm. My sister moved with me and this was when I was first opening up my, my clinic and my sister. I had asked her, I said, Hey, are you, um, [00:15:50] hey, are any guys you're interested in or anyone you're dating? And she said. I gotta, she, she was like, Josh, I gotta be honest with you.
She's like, all the guys here wear skinny jeans are a little too feminine for me. [00:16:00] I was like, okay, we grew up in Ohio and kind of like a farming community. And so anyways, those are cup of tea. But all that being said, I do think there's a psychological element. [00:16:10] And the other thing is toxins. We've seen, you know, phthalates that you, you've seen this study already, but it's like there's a study on receipts on the ink and receipts.
Oh yeah. I won't touch those things. And, and, and [00:16:20] how, how terrible those are. So I think it's toxin overload. I think there's a cultural, psychological issues. And, and the other thing I would say is like we talked about, [00:16:30] it's zinc deficiency. It's pro amino acid protein and peptide deficiencies. And if I have to throw one other thing on there, it's lack of sleep.
Mm-hmm. [00:16:40] Sleep and stress. I mean, if you're not sleeping well, your testosterone plummets probably more than any single factor. Yeah. This is why, what love the glasses you're wearing, I mean, you know, it's true. Dark, [00:16:50] being able to, sleep well and get, especially that deep sleep. Mm-hmm. That's, that's when your body is sort of rebuilding.
Um, that, you know, your, your [00:17:00] testosterone, I would
Dave: add LED lighting and circadian disruption to the list. Yeah. That shift really did change the slope of the curve for testosterone depletion because they disrupt [00:17:10] sleep more effectively than incandescent light did. Yeah. So that whole combination of endocrine disrupting chemicals, lack of nutrients, psychological stress, and then you're [00:17:20] talking about this, we'll call it polarity thing.
It's real,
another factor that I think [00:17:30] it is also a touchy subject, but when men are around women who are ovulating. Our testosterone goes up. Mm-hmm. And when testone, when testosterone goes up, [00:17:40] dopamine goes up and dopamine makes you care about pursuing your mission.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Dave: Right. So 85% of women are on industrial hormonal birth control right now.
At some [00:17:50] point in their lives they are not ovulating. And that means the men around them are like, there's no fertile women around here. My testosterone's gonna go down, so I'm happy to live in grandma's basement and play video games [00:18:00] 'cause I got nothing here. And we don't know it's happening,
Josh: but it's real.
That's an incredible point. Yeah. Absolutely. Incredible. You know, one of the thing, as you, as you mentioned, birth control [00:18:10] I read a study that was published just a few years ago. It was a 10 year study that if a woman takes birth control. Long term, we have to say hormonal birth count. 'cause there's plenty of safe and [00:18:20] effective.
Yeah, absolutely. A, a contraceptive drug their chance of getting hypothyroidism goes up 287%. Mm-hmm.
Dave: And breast cancer [00:18:30] and a bunch of other diseases.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. You know, my big, my biggest shock when I first opened up my functional medicine practice in Nashville was 'cause they don't teach you this in school.
Yeah. The amount of women coming in with [00:18:40] hypothyroidism. That was something I was like, well, what do you mean? Every, every woman that I test has hypothyroidism. Mm-hmm. Well, all of them. And it's because in high school or college, they get put on birth [00:18:50] control contraceptive drugs. And then later on because of that they have hypothyroidism and then later on estrogen-based breast cancer because they got put on these drugs.
Yeah. I mean the, the [00:19:00] cycle and, and you know, a lot of times people label it as well. That's just a coincidence. Well, this, the, the, it's not a coincidence. The, the data. Mm-hmm. The statistics show now that [00:19:10] if you're taking these drugs and, and the reality is there is not a single drug, for the most part, that doesn't deplete your body of something.
Mm-hmm. Some sort of nutrient [00:19:20] just because it doesn't work with your body the way that, you know, plants would like an herb like turmeric or ginger or a ashwagandha. Now, one third of medications [00:19:30] do come from plants in terms of mm-hmm. Where they originally got the idea and then they obviously synthesize the drug for that.
But. You know, birth control is an example. Depletes the [00:19:40] body of vitamin B one, B two, B three, B five, B six, B nine, B12, magnesium, and good bacteria. So like women that get on contraceptive, the overgrowth of [00:19:50] bacteria. Mm-hmm. Like yeast infections that happen once they get off the drug or later on after taking it for a while.
And so in, and the reality is for almost every condition today, [00:20:00] you could be taking a herb or a vitamin or a peptide and not have to be on the drug.
Dave: Some people get really upset when we talk about [00:20:10] this. They're gonna say, well, you guys are men. How dare you talk. Ladies, we care deeply about you. We, we actually do.
Yeah. These hormonal [00:20:20] disruption drugs that stop pregnancy are harming you in many different ways. Yeah. And there are safe and effective alternatives to those that allow [00:20:30] you to choose whether or not you get pregnant that don't fuck you up. So it's necessary that we talk about this and we have a medical professional here and an unlicensed [00:20:40] biohacker who wrote a major book on fertility that said at least 10,000 babies born as a result of it.
Like, we're not making this up, and we want you to be safe and happy. Birth control pills [00:20:50] change your personality as well. That's, do you know anything about that?
Josh: Yeah. What
Dave: happens there?
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, well, when you trick your body into thinking it's pregnant, which is essentially what a, [00:21:00] what a contraceptive drug does, that estrogen goes up.
So your body's like, oh, I'm, I'm pregnant now. It is changing your personality and it's dropping your libido as well. [00:21:10] And so, because there's certain stages of pregnancy where that happens, like first tri trimester. And so that, that's what you're doing. And that's, I mean, it's not to, I mean, and to your point [00:21:20] that that's, that is affecting your relationship with your spouse.
It's not just affecting you. Yeah. It's affecting every other person around you. You know, I have, um, Mindy Peltz is a friend of mine. Mm-hmm. And she's written an [00:21:30] incredible book called Eat Like a Girl.
Dave: Yeah. She's been on the show, uh, multiple times. Yeah.
Josh: And, and, and she is such, such a brilliant doctor. And so she caters her dietary therapies towards [00:21:40] where women are on their cycle.
Mm-hmm. And there's a natural cycle that I believe God put in place in our bodies, just like there are certain seasons and, you know, when a [00:21:50] woman has, as in the early part and late part of their cycle, estrogen is low. They should be doing low carb, very, very focused on balancing insulin. When estrogen goes up, [00:22:00] carbs can go up.
Mm-hmm. Also, you should have harder workouts, expend more energy, do things to push yourself. Right. And, and there's a natural thing that happens during that cycle of also your body cleansing on the [00:22:10] backs. Half your, your liver being more uh, detoxifying in a stronger way. If you're keeping your hormones and you in the exact same place all the time and forcing your body to do that, [00:22:20] you are forcing your body to, to not cleanse as well, to not rebuild and heal as well.
There are so many side effects when you take away your cycle that [00:22:30] mm-hmm. That, that are very unhealthy.
Dave: There really are. Even in men, there's a cycle. That's right. Your testosterone's high in the morning. I got your, so I've been on testosterone replacement since I was [00:22:40] 26 years old. My testosterone was lower than my mom at that age.
'cause I had so much inflammation. I was so obese. Yeah. And I've been under medical supervision. I keep my levels right where they should be and I'm happy about [00:22:50] that. It's been an absolute, uh, just, just godsend to be honest, because it makes you care about the world. So I've also gone off of it at various times to test what [00:23:00] works and all that.
I get my levels decent. Yeah. But not where I want them. And I'm happy to be on testosterone for 180 years. Doesn't bother me at all. But when you are. Taking [00:23:10] testosterone and you get a pellet, which I did two times, your levels go up and they stay up and you lose your daily testosterone cycle. And when that happened, I lost an inch of [00:23:20] hairline in about three months.
I'm like, oh my God. Wow. Because I never had the, the male daily cycle. So I'm like, use testosterone in the morning, even if you're injecting once a week or twice a week injected in the [00:23:30] morning, because then at least you get a weekly up and down. Humans hate consistency. Our bodies hate it. They want cycles.
Right, right. So all of us have a circadian rhythm. There's a monthly [00:23:40] rhythm, there's a 19 minute rhythm between which side of our nose is dominant for breathing. And you look at all this stuff and like, let the body do what it wants and support it in the right way. [00:23:50] What do you think about like 25 year olds going on testosterone who are low testosterone?
Josh: So, so, so he, he, here's my opinion. It might be slightly different than yours. Yeah. But, but so my opinion is this, and it's always [00:24:00] been this I wanna do things as natural as possible and then take certain steps outside of that. In terms of getting somebody to where we really feel like they need to be [00:24:10] optimized.
And so for instance, let, let's say if I have somebody come in, let, let's, let's use the testosterone example. And I have a male that's 30 years old, low testosterone. [00:24:20] My first goal is to do everything I can, diet and lifestyle wise to get it where it needs to be. Love that. And so what I might do is I, I will say, okay, well let's start eating more red [00:24:30] meat.
Let's eat, let's get rid of, you know, let's stop, stop grabbing receipts and drinking outta plastic bottles. And let's try and balance your circadian rhythms. Get outside first thing in the morning, wear [00:24:40] the blue blockers after dinner or all day. And let, let, let's do all of these things to optimize your sleep, optimize your diet, optimize your lifestyle, and then let's try some herbals.
Let's do dear Vel, velvet [00:24:50] antler. Let's do, maybe it's Tribulous, maybe it's to Cali. You, you know, panics gen. Let's do those things. And most of the time I get people to [00:25:00] where they need to be. Well, let's say we still didn't get quite there. Okay? Let's go to the next phase, and that's gonna be, let's try some peptides, okay?
Mm-hmm. Let's do some things to help with [00:25:10] your IGF. Let's do some things to help with. Maybe it's BPC 1 57. Let's do some of those things to get it there. And if we exhaust those things for a couple years and we're still not there, [00:25:20] okay, now let's visit testosterone therapy. Let's visit some of those things for a period of time.
I love
Dave: that approach. So we're saying, all right, let's, um, [00:25:30] let's use all the natural things, and if it doesn't work, then let's, let's go harder on it. What are the peptides that raise testosterone? Yeah.
Josh: So my favorite is tesamorelin. Mm-hmm. And [00:25:40] smolin. I, I, the, the thing I like about that is that it's giving your body what it needs to create it and convert it, but it's not doing it for you.
And so [00:25:50] one of the things that happens, and you, and you know this with, with a lot of hormone replacement therapy is, is that, and I'll give the Chinese medicine perspective on this, 'cause I think it might be helpful for some people, but you're creating [00:26:00] a. A, you know, we, we hear like a negative or reverse feedback loop mm-hmm.
Where your body stops producing itself. So when somebody takes testosterone exogenously from the [00:26:10] outside, your testes stop producing it internally. And in Chinese medicine, they use a metaphor with this. They say it's like turning off a tap. Mm-hmm. And I use this a little bit more when I, when I've [00:26:20] talked to women, uh, more about their hormones in that when you turn off your own internal tap, now this has has more to do with estrogen, progesterone, and not as much with testosterone.
But the [00:26:30] belief in Chinese medicine has always been that's gonna create a certain form of stagnation in the body where things aren't moving as much. Mm-hmm. Because you've turned off your own tap and they [00:26:40] believe with that stagnation, your chance of certain types of cancers will increase. And so that's the belief there is that there's a potential side effect.
And it's not to say that it should never be used, it's [00:26:50] just being very conscious about what happens when you do that. So, so that's my hesitancy with going there first. But I do think if somebody's optimizing all other [00:27:00] parts of their lifestyle, they're probably negating that enough and getting enough benefits Mm.
To where it makes sense. But yeah, I would say Tessa Morlin is my absolute favorite for that. Along [00:27:10] with, and I still really like BPC 1 5 70 TB 500. 'cause if you combine that with workout, working out, like weight training, you're improving your recovery is the biggest thing that's happening. [00:27:20] And so you'll be able to lift more off and move more weight, which then of course we know is gonna increase your testosterone.
Dave: Okay. That's, uh, that's such good [00:27:30] advice. I love the idea of get it there naturally if you can. And if you can then you add some testosterone. The good news is that there are two new [00:27:40] forms of testosterone that don't shrink your balls, which is really, really just interesting 'cause throughout history, when I first went on when I was 26 and my thyroid was almost [00:27:50] undetectable.
My testosterone was lower than my mom. It was like two or 300. It was terrible. And we didn't know nearly as much as this was 25 years ago. So I went on [00:28:00] testosterone. I used a cream, uh, and I used it daily. And then I took things that block it from turning into estrogen. And so I maintained testicular volume, I maintained [00:28:10] my fertility and all, but those also have side effects.
And over time I modulated what I do and I'm testing out a couple different forms of testosterone now that don't require any estrogen blocking, which is cool.
Josh: So see, see, [00:28:20] see there, there's, there's a new form of testosterone I got turned onto where I think they're actually doing something. And maybe this is what you're doing, and I wanna say it's combining testosterone or getting it in a form where it's [00:28:30] working, I think with HCG and maybe some other things to where it's, it's stopping the reverse feedback loop to your, to your
Dave: point, HCG will stop the feedback.
So it's one of the [00:28:40] ways of maintaining testicular volume. And I did go on HCG maybe eight, nine years ago, okay. For about two months. And the weirdest thing happened for me. It's just not a common [00:28:50] side effect. My boobs started getting bigger and I've, I've always had a problem with man boobs. They're completely, it's, I've hacked that one, but all the guys in my family, like, it's just an estrogenic inflammatory thing.[00:29:00]
But my butt started getting rounder and I'm like, what is going on? And I went into the doc, I was working with it. He's like, I've never seen this before. Stop. Like, your body thinks you're pregnant. 'cause [00:29:10] HCG is a pregnancy hormone. Yeah. So, the, the newer forms of testosterone, you don't need HCG. Um, one's a pill, one's a spray, and because [00:29:20] they're taken orally in the form they're in, they don't go through the liver mm-hmm.
Where all this stuff happens. So I, I think there's a lot of innovation happening where with enough data and with ai, we're starting to be able to engineer [00:29:30] things that work within our system, but don't create feedback loops that are harmful. Yeah. So I'm, that's great. I've done a couple podcasts about those, those types of things and it's it's a, a [00:29:40] profoundly interesting time to be able to say, I can measure quickly my hormones and then.
Change my sleep, change what I eat, change the supplements I take. I think it starts [00:29:50] with vitamin D, which is the fat-soluble minerals. You don't have those, you won't make testosterone. Yep. And then it starts with broad spectrum minerals. And that's why those are the two things I focus on the most with my supplement company.
Josh: Well, well we, well, you know what [00:30:00] I'm so excited about in the future, I, I was doing an interview with Mikala Peterson. Jordan Peterson, yeah's great. And, and she had asked me, she said, Hey, what do you think things are gonna look like in 10 years? And I said, this might not be [00:30:10] 10 years, but, but, well, some of it might be earlier, some of it might be later.
But we're gonna be entering in a world at some point where we're gonna be able to have data in front of us in real time now. Right now we can [00:30:20] obviously do a continuous glucose monitor, which is amazing. I'm, I'm wearing an ora ring, and so you're able to tell HRV and certain other things there and, and sleep.
But I think at some point here [00:30:30] we'll be able to have, you know, one of the. Patches on our arms. Mm-hmm. And it's gonna tell you every vitamin mineral, every am amino acid, your hormone levels in that exact moment, [00:30:40] tell you exactly what's going on. I think eventually we'll have toilets where you'll defecate and urinate and you'll have popup on the screen, here's what's going on in your gut microbiome, here's what's going on in your urine [00:30:50] analysis.
So we'll eventually be living in a world where that'll happen. And then you can custom formulate the exact supplements and nutrients that you need, and there's gonna be recommendations. Eat this, this [00:31:00] meal to start healing your body. Hey, you need to meditate now. Yeah. Because your, you know, your heart rate's getting too high.
Mm-hmm. So, so we're eventually gonna be. You know, living in a world where [00:31:10] all that's possible,
Dave: it, it totally is. I mean, there's companies like ome, like let's look at your gut. You send it in, you get results a week later, whatever it is, like these things to [00:31:20] modulate that. It's not real time. And you have things like ora ring or ultra human.
Yeah. Uh, or an eight sleep. All those things like, oh, okay, I do need to meditate more. I need [00:31:30] to change my behaviors. But we're at like model t era from from automobiles where it was, it's so primitive yet it's so amazing compared to 10 years ago. [00:31:40] And the slope of the curve is going exponential 'cause of ai.
Oh yeah. I mean, anyone watching could go to one of the more advanced AI engines and say, design the [00:31:50] next generation of aura. And it'll do everything. Mm-hmm. Then you just need the capital and the ability to build it. Yeah. And it, it's, so, our, our speed of innovation is insane. [00:32:00] Oh, yeah. You talked about biblical farming and biblical nutrition.
What is biblical farming?
Josh: Sure, sure. Well, if you go and read the book of specifically [00:32:10] Leviticus and Deuteronomy you're, you're gonna read about um. God giving the Israelites very specific recommendations and, well not recommendations, commands on [00:32:20] this is how you're to farm. And so one of the things you'll see, and if you just study just biblical farming in general, in the way that they, they, they, they had farmed.
So one of the things that is done, and probably one of [00:32:30] the most, the biggest principles is let the land rest every seven years.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: And let the fruit fall that's growing. Let it reenergize the soil [00:32:40] and then pick up where you left off. And so that alone is, is, is very, very restorative and regenerative of the soil.
The other thing is [00:32:50] the way that it was always done, and if you go all the way back to what the Garden of Eden was meant to be, when you read about the, um, just the description is they weren't planting things. [00:33:00] These foods were perennial, which means they just naturally grew. Every year. It's trees, it's berry bushes, it's it's nut, nut trees.
It's those sort of things. They weren't vegan though, right? Well. [00:33:10] They were there, there, there's belief that Adam and Eve were vegan. There's possibly some form of people vegan up in the time of till Noah. And then in Genesis nine, three, [00:33:20] God tells Noah, you can kill animals and eat them. Like eat a freaking steak.
That's, that's what we said. Both that word. Exactly. So, so, and, and, and there's also [00:33:30] belief by some Christians that during the flood that might have actually changed the actual ecosystem and environment and made it even more necessary for our bodies to do that. But when it comes to biblical [00:33:40] farming and nutrition, I think the big focus is on you know, creating a perennial food forest.
It's a lot of those regenerative organic properties. Mm-hmm. Having animals graze. [00:33:50] Uh, within those, those plants and do a lot about what we talked about with regenerative agriculture. And then when you read the Bible, there are certain foods that are highlighted significantly. The most [00:34:00] referenced I think, plant is, is olives and extra virgin olive oil.
After that, it's pomegranates, it's figs. And then we see a lot of. Dairy, that's [00:34:10] fermented. We see a lot of beef and sheep mm-hmm. In terms of animals. And then we see honey and those are the most referenced foods in all of biblical medicine. But there's frankincense and merr. [00:34:20] Right. In terms of herbals and essential oils.
Yeah. Those are referenced. And then we see fish as well. And then, you know, sourdough, there's some loaves in there. Yeah. Bread. Yeah. Along with the fish. A hundred percent. [00:34:30] Yeah. And so, and then, then like a ferment or sprouted grain bread is gonna be in there as well. But those are the foods that are most referenced.
It's probably most similar to like a Mediterranean diet, but it is still very [00:34:40] significantly different in terms of, it's still talking about eating a lot of lamb and beef. Yeah. In there. It's interesting when you read about Solomon, he was known to be, at least in the Bible, the wisest man in that time to [00:34:50] ever live.
He was eating meat, uh, red meat, red meat, red meat, constantly. Mm-hmm. We see that with Abraham. We see that you know, during that time we see, of course, quail, uh, being referenced [00:35:00] with, with, with, uh, with Moses and the Israelites then too. So I think a biblical diet first starts in your heart. It's, I wanna honor God with my body.
I wanna honor the temple. It's being good stewards [00:35:10] over the earth. Mm-hmm. And letting it rest, but also being patient with doing more of that regenerative agriculture in that way. And then it's, um, well then of course there's, [00:35:20] this is very controversial even among Christians, but it's not eating pork or shellfish.
Mm-hmm. One of the things that, actually, you kind of alluded to this earlier. Pigs bodies are [00:35:30] very similar to humans and that they don't have, well, even there, there are some differences in terms of they don't have sweat glands, but they're more carriers of parasites. I read a study recently that said the most, [00:35:40] the animal that carries the most parasites are are pigs.
My, I think it's probably humans. Well, well, you know what? You, well, well that might, you know what? That, that, that might be true. You know, [00:35:50] most humans I know though, at least they don't. Well, most people don't eat their own feces. So, but, but actually, sorry, I, I was gonna get into some with fecal matter transplant, and I've done it, [00:36:00] I've done it too.
So, anyways, but there's, uh, but in terms of animals we consume, you know, there, there big picture here are parasites. And so I think that that would be another sort of biblical [00:36:10] food law in terms of staying away from those sort of products.
Dave: It's interesting with, with pork pigs, like humans use their kidneys to [00:36:20] eliminate a lot of toxins, but most other animals use their liver to get rid of 'em.
So pigs accumulate toxins the way humans do. Right. And that means that we just don't excrete the way a rat would. Rats can live in all kinds [00:36:30] of things, and they don't get sick because their liver handles more. And that means that if you feed glyphosate and corn and all this crap to pigs, the meat is not good for [00:36:40] you.
Yeah, yeah. Right. And if you take pigs, like the way we were doing them on the farm, uh, people would pay 30, $40 a pound for the bacon 'cause you'd eat it and you would get like a food high [00:36:50] because it was healthy fat in the pigs. They weren't eating all the bad stuff. Yeah. And they didn't have any toxins in their diet.
And they got activated charcoal too, because I'm like, what are we gonna do to keep 'em from doing this? So I [00:37:00] think it's possible to have pork that is parasite free. That cooking will do that too if you cook it adequately. Um, but you have to be very careful and treat the animal differently. And as a general [00:37:10] rule, yeah, eating pork is not a great idea.
I'm totally in alignment with that. And you can hack your pigs so that they're abundantly healthy and then they become probably a superfood at that point because the fat [00:37:20] is so similar to what our bodies are craving. Right. So it's one of those in the middle.
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no doubt. So I'll, I'll say this and we may differ a little bit here, but I, I.
In Chinese [00:37:30] medicine, which I am a mm-hmm. It, it is the form of nutritional personalized nutrition practice that I probably think is the most accurate as a system that's above created. Above. [00:37:40] Interesting. Well, it's probably more due to my, I I've, I've been able to maybe understand it more, it [00:37:50] a little bit better than Ayurveda.
I, I do love Ayurveda. Yeah. And, and I think they're probably on a very similar plane, but I, I really like Chinese medicine. Okay. And, but my, my point there is they [00:38:00] recommend pork for certain conditions. Yeah. It's probably the thing I I, I don't do when I practice Chinese medicine as much as is still recommending it.
But there's no doubt that [00:38:10] if, if your pigs are organic and regenerative like you are, they're gonna be. Much better.
Dave: A lot of paleo folks are saying, you need to eat oysters. You need to eat [00:38:20] shellfish because of all the minerals and green lip mussels have certain fats in them. ETA. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the take on that?
Josh: So, you know, I, again, [00:38:30] I, I, I think that these animals are bottom feeders and I think that even though they may have certain nutrients that are very unique, [00:38:40] I think that there are, I think there are better ways of getting the nutrients or other foods that may not have those exact nutrients, but are still, well, I think there are other foods that pretty much have those, [00:38:50] have those nutrients.
So for instance, so, so I, I just wanna be clear about this. I'm not a fan of pork or shellfish and I don't recommend them, but I do understand why people do in Chinese medicine and I read it, [00:39:00] still recommend them, even though it's not what I would recommend. Mm-hmm. Now with like green lip muscles, for instance, those are high in ETA, which there, there's a few studies showing it's [00:39:10] more in anti-inflammatory than EPA by far.
That's profound. Yeah. Yeah, it's really amazing. But for myself, I would just go to caviar, you know, and do that instead. I mean, [00:39:20] caviar is like, I mean, gold, absolutely gold for reducing inflammation. So I would just probably do a food like that. Instead, you
Dave: can also order. Oil [00:39:30] from herring eggs, which is the same thing.
Yeah. I used to formulate that. Okay. At another company. So yeah. You talked about the flood. And I have a theory I've never talked about here. You look in [00:39:40] the Bible and people were listening, like, Dave, you know about the Bible. It goes, I was one class away from having a minor in religious studies because frankly I thought it was such [00:39:50] bullshit when I was in computer science school that I'm like, I have to understand this 'cause all these people stupid.
And I was judgmental. And one of my, my [00:40:00] teachers, when I, I said something to that thing, he said, no, these people are not crazy. He said, they just believe something different. Their behavior's entirely rational. If you have the core [00:40:10] belief system there and whether those beliefs are real or not, there's all kinds of things we believe now about science that are provably wrong.
We do still believe them. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna [00:40:20] step back from judgment on this. In the Bible, people lived 800 years, then 400 years, then you know, 300 mm-hmm. And 200 and the lifespan of humans goes down [00:40:30] when the flood happened. There's pretty darn good evidence. Graham Hancock's been on the show twice.
Oh, wow. Yeah. You know, talking about how a comet hit the planet. There's also a [00:40:40] problem within our mitochondria, which is caused by a heavy isotope of water that's found in comets. It's called deuterium. Now, in the [00:40:50] extremist biohacking world where you see these people, like the world is soaked in blue light and deuterium and evil, and if you don't do it, I say, you're a bad person.
I, I'm not into that kind [00:41:00] of a vibe at all. And I will say, deuterium is not good for mitochondria. And you find 160 parts per million, um, in most water around the planet, and some is lower. [00:41:10] So I spent close to $10,000 trying to lower my deuterium levels. It is. Unless you're a billionaire with cancer, it's a complete waste of time and you just cannot do it [00:41:20] effectively.
Wow. But on top, on top of that, I, I believe that the flood is where that came from and that that is one reason, 'cause it causes DNA mutation. [00:41:30] The other thing is potassium. Do you know what a banana equivalent dose is? No. So if you have a Geiger counter and you wave it over bananas, it'll tick because [00:41:40] we have radioactive potassium spread out around the planet that also causes similar damage.
Hmm. So all the deuterium fetishists out there they're ignoring the [00:41:50] potassium problem as well. So, um, it's funny because if you're flying a crate of bananas in customs will wave their thing. Oh, there's radiation in there. But they kinda laugh because that's the [00:42:00] amount of radiation in Wow. Right. So it's, it's like, guys, something's going on in there.
And now what we can do is we can do things like ketosis that help to block those types of, [00:42:10] of damage in the body. And it's all fascinating. And there is a lot of nuggets in all of the ancient myths, including the Bible, including the Bhava [00:42:20] Gita, including all of the ancient literature.
What about biodynamic farming? I mean, some people in the Christian community will [00:42:30] say that the guy who created it was, you know, probably demonic or something. I think he was probably psychic. But what, what's your take on that?
Josh: Well, I, I, I, I think I know what you're asking. [00:42:40] Let me kind of open up the, the conversation a little bit more.
It's so interesting 'cause I talked about this on my, uh, on, on my, my podcast I was just doing last week and it's this, I said I, I did one [00:42:50] on mushrooms. Mm-hmm. And so I talked about psilocybin.
Music: Yeah.
Josh: And so I think for somebody who is a Christian, I think first and foremost, the [00:43:00] Bible talks about what we're called to do.
And that is be connected to God, be connected to other people and steward over the earth. So there's really these three primary relationships. We need to nurture [00:43:10] God, other people, earth and the planet. And so I think we need to focus on, on, on nourishing those things. So I think when. There, [00:43:20] there are a few questions that I, people in my community get riled up with.
'cause I, I have a lot of, I mean, I have a lot of Christians, but also a lot of atheists. And then there's a lot of debate on, on some of my channels. And, [00:43:30] and one of the things is, okay if somebody was a non-Christian or somebody founded something with, with a spiritual intent mm-hmm. That doesn't align [00:43:40] with, didn't do it and align with maybe the Judeo-Christian thought and principles, is it therefore evil?
And I'm more aligned with probably someone like Thomas Aquinas who [00:43:50] believe that, listen, even people that do certain things with ill intent, those things can still be turned into good oftentimes. And so, and here's [00:44:00] examples of this. I have people in, in the c there's people in the Christian community who believe that no Christians should do yoga.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: As as one example of this. Or they should never do [00:44:10] psilocybin or if it's done biodynamically. 'cause a person who founded it, that's actually. Food and those sort of things are bad. I'm more under the belief of [00:44:20] with the right heart and the right wise counsel, that almost all things can be used for good in those ways.
And Colossians talks about, this is in [00:44:30] the Bible, so for me, like I've gone to a yoga class and shocking. I know. And and you know what? I am not for myself when I'm doing, you [00:44:40] know, a downward dog or co like I'm not doing anything towards the, the, the sun god raw. Yeah. You don't have to do that to do yoga.
Yeah, exactly. I, I am doing things [00:44:50] because I wanna be healthy, I wanna be fit, I wanna honor God with my body. And I go in with a very certain intention of doing just that. And I think it's the very same thing with the bio-dynamic thing. I think the psilocybin, here's the [00:45:00] other one. You know, there are lots of things that alter our state.
And I would even argue, you know, for Christians, alcohol alters our state. [00:45:10] Cannabis alters our state. This guy? Yes. Caffeine. Yeah. Caffeine alters the state. Actually I think essential oils like frankincense True, which, which have been diffused [00:45:20] during religious ceremonies for thousands of years in Judaeo-Christian faith alter our state.
Now, again, I'm not a proponent of doing those things [00:45:30] recreationally. I think the Bible talks about altering your state for recreational uses. Instead it talks about getting drunk on the Holy Spirit and, and mm-hmm. And doing it [00:45:40] via natural just praise and worship and prayer and via meditation, altering our state that way.
That is the primary. But I had a family who, they lost their daughter.
Music: Mm-hmm. [00:45:50]
Josh: And they had gone through so much counseling and so many things, and they felt this spiritual just that they'd felt stuck after years and years. Yeah. And [00:46:00] they did psilocybin under the guidance of actually a, a pastor and a.
Physician.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: And they felt by doing this medicinally, it allowed them to [00:46:10] experience healing and breakthrough in a different way. So, so I know that's not exactly what you asked, but it's,
Dave: it's in alignment. Yeah,
Josh: yeah.
Dave: Yeah. There was a, a [00:46:20] event a while ago where about two dozen Catholic priests did mushrooms.
Right. And at the end of [00:46:30] it, they were saying, this deepened our connection with God. Yeah. And so, I'm gonna be really blunt here. I, I am profoundly agnostic. I, I have a [00:46:40] relationship with Jesus. I have a relationship with God. I also have a relationship with Buddha and with all of the things out there that I can find in altered states, like I, I'm just non-judgmental on that.[00:46:50]
And some people will probably judge me and stop listening right now and say that I'm demonic, or, okay, fine, whatever. But I'm just gonna say this. If your prayer works, pray over the food and [00:47:00] change it. If your prayer works, pray before you go into yoga, and then it's good. Otherwise, you should learn to pray better.
Josh: This, this is part of why, you know, there, there's a, there's, there's a Bible verse where Paul [00:47:10] gets bitten by a snake. Mm-hmm. And they're like, he's dead. Right. Like the people that, he's dead and he prayed and, and he didn't die. You know? And, and, and I, so, [00:47:20] so I think there are, I, I, I kind of got you there. I do believe that if I listen, I've sat down at someone's home before and not wanted to offend them.
Mm-hmm. Now, now at this point, you and I, if we go into [00:47:30] someone's home, they're very conscious. They're like, I gotta make sure that Dave and Josh can eat this meal. I always feel bad. I'm like, you don't have, be that picky. No, I know. Same here. And, and, but I do believe if I sit down for a meal [00:47:40] and I asked God, I said, God, would you bless this food in my body?
And I'm doing this right now, eating something that I don't actually fully like, and it's the right situation. For instance, I've been on a mission trip mm-hmm. [00:47:50] And to, to Africa. And I was in that situation, right. I'm like, right. I don't wanna get a parasite right now. But I also don't wanna offend. I, again, I prayed over the meal and I, I [00:48:00] believe that there is a.
God blesses things. I believe there's an energy that mm-hmm. Whether he puts into the food or through us, I believe he can change these act communion. Mm-hmm. Actually, is that [00:48:10] very same belief. It, it is believing that I am taking Christ's body in his blood and there is an actual not just metaphorical, [00:48:20] but a physiological thing that's happening when I'm consuming this, that, this, it's the meal that heals.
Mm-hmm. And I have had myself been in situations where I needed, I was desperate for [00:48:30] healing. Right. And I took communion in believing that, in knowing that this is the blood of Jesus, it's his body. This bread broken for me. And it was healing. And actually the cracker I was eating [00:48:40] had gluten in it.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: And was not healthy.
Dave: Those abilities are altered state's work. And mind your book heavily meditated is about all the different ways, [00:48:50] including prayer, meditation, psychedelics, breath work, different technologies, neurofeedback, all the ways you can get into a deep state of forgiveness. You can get into a flow state.
Yeah. And if you want [00:49:00] to connect with a divine, you've gotta learn how to change your inner state. So you're on the right wavelength to do that. And yes to, to be able to [00:49:10] say sitting somewhere, well, that way of doing it isn't the right way. I would ask anyone, how do you know? Because I don't think the Bible mentioned neurofeedback.
I don't know if [00:49:20] it mentions breath work or not, but there are ways, and I've had Christians come to 40 years of sin and like, oh my gosh. Like I deepened my relationship with [00:49:30] the divine in a way. 'cause I changed myself so I could tune in better. Yeah. So there, there's a lot of stuff happening and we see physiological changes when people meditate or pray.
Yeah. And they're [00:49:40] documented. Right.
Josh: Yeah. And, and, and I think so much of it comes down to, well, there, there's a few things I think that if I, you know, getting into an altered state, and this is where the Bible [00:49:50] talks about spirit spirits mm-hmm. Of fear, spirits of worry or spirits of love and faith and compassion.
But I think one of the most healing states, and by the way David, I just wanted to show this. I think, you know, [00:50:00] you and I met quite a few years ago, think probably, probably 12 or 14, I think probably that long. Yeah. And I think even now, and I, I, I feel like I'm in this place more and you are in this place more where there's a [00:50:10] greater level of humility for both of us.
And maybe it's 'cause we've learned hard lessons. We, we, we both have been through some hard things. And I think for myself, the way that I [00:50:20] alter my state the most is when I come into a state of humility. Mm-hmm. Of thinking of others better than myself, of being in a state of just living in a state of [00:50:30] gratitude and humility.
And when you get in that state, now you can receive things. If you're living in a state of pride, you already know it all. You can't receive anything. And so those sort of alter states, whether it's [00:50:40] character altered states or you know, or being in a state of there is an eternity, there is a divine, that's an under state.
In fact, as we did talk about psilocybin, that's [00:50:50] the thing that I've probably heard from the most people is that they felt like when they were getting into that, when, when they were experiencing that [00:51:00] high, um, that they were more aware of the supernatural. It is probably the thing across the board, I've heard from most almost everybody.
Yeah.
Dave: And, and for people who don't [00:51:10] want to do that, um, if you read heavily meditated and you could say, well, meditations evil. Yeah. These are ways of entering altered states. You can [00:51:20] enter a similar state to psychedelics just with a specific form of breath work. And I don't think there's anything in the Bible that says you can't breathe deep and heavy for a long time and then go into an altered state.
[00:51:30] Well,
Josh: I, I, I wanna affirm what you're saying here. 'cause I think that. The Bible talks about meditation. And I think when you look at Eastern meditation versus, well, they're about all Eastern actually. 'cause [00:51:40] the Bible is in the Middle East, but, which a lot of times people today that are religious, that are very Western, they don't,
Dave: they forget that.
Yeah.
Josh: Yeah. Can I tell you, when I first started studying Chinese medicine and [00:51:50] utilizing that, I had some Christians who felt like, well, that's Eastern medicine, so that's evil. And like the Bible is an e It was, anyways, it was the kind of [00:52:00] east meets West 'cause of Rome and all the things going on. But anyways, I I, I do believe that meditation is one of the most healing and biblically backed ways of spiritual healing in connecting [00:52:10] with God.
There is, and I do think there's a difference between, there's a form of meditating that is I'm open opening myself up to everything. Mm-hmm. [00:52:20] And I, that's not. What the Bible talks about. Typically when meditation, it's taking a virtue or a value or the presence of Christ in like, for instance, reading, you know, [00:52:30] uh, one Corinthians 13 where it talks about love, love is patient, love is kind in thinking about and meditating on I God is love and I'm his child and [00:52:40] I am love, and how can I be love?
How can I embody and exude love? And so I think there's a way of meditating that is, there is, it's absolutely biblical and, [00:52:50] and healing pride is one of those seven deadly sins. Yeah. Do you tell your kids you're proud of them? I think that the pride it's talking about there is, is different. I think when, when [00:53:00] you, when you read, you know, Dante's Inferno for example, and, and, and I think the Catholic Church maybe later adopted some of these, it might've been right before or after that.
But the seven deadly sins, when we talk about pride, [00:53:10] pride is more of the internal ego of you believe that you are. God or taking the place of God. And so I actually think that, that [00:53:20] being proud of is more of a sense of gratitude for the individual or praise. Mm-hmm. And so I think even when you go and look, and I did this years ago and I couldn't quote it exactly, [00:53:30] but I remember actually looking this up 'cause I was curious about exactly what you said.
And so pride is more of a, I'm stepping into what God is supposed to be in, in replacing that role [00:53:40] versus proud is I see the Christ within, within you. Mm-hmm. And I am honoring that virtue,
Dave: that character in who you are. I went through [00:53:50] a similar thing where like, okay pride is not necessarily a positive word.
So I, I usually say I'm grateful or happy or excited about, [00:54:00] or impressed with. Uh, what you've done or how hard working. Yeah. And sometimes I say proud as well, and only when it's a really big thing because I also, I don't want [00:54:10] my kids to, to think that how well they succeed affects, uh, you know, how, how I think of them that way.
Yeah. Like, I'm always proud in a beneficial way. Yeah. [00:54:20] It's just 'cause they're my kids. Right. But it, it's, it's an interesting parenting question that you can look at through a religious lens, a psychological lens or a health lens. Right.
Josh: Well, well, you know, I, I think about some of the most, [00:54:30] meaning one of the most meaningful things in my entire life.
I, uh, I. We all have these like turning points where somebody said something to us and it changed. Mm-hmm. Something in us. So like I had a [00:54:40] teacher once who told me I asked me to stay after class. She asked me what I wanted to do. I said, I wanna be a doctor. She laughed at me 'cause I was a terrible student in high school.
Mm-hmm. And I was failing the, [00:54:50] the class. And she said, you gotta f on this paper. You'll be lucky to pass. She said, you can't be a doctor. She said, my daughter has a 3.8 GPA. She barely got into med school. And so then I believed, I, I I wasn't [00:55:00] smart. Mm-hmm. I then later got diagnosed with a DH, adhd, got prescribed Ritalin.
And I thought, and the doctor told me, he said, you have a learning disability. So I was in high school. I thought, well, I've got a [00:55:10] disability. Well, I, so, so that was something that negatively impacted me terribly. Later on, I had a teacher tell me, Josh, you're a great writer. Good job in college. Like you're Bri.
And I was like, wow, [00:55:20] okay. So, so I had kind of a, a change there, but one of the things that my dad did, I. You know, several, quite a few times in my life that I think is one of the most impactful things ever had to me, is I [00:55:30] remember he would put his hand on my shoulder and say, I'm proud of you.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: And there aren't a lot of dads that do that with their kids today.
Probably. Really interesting. And listen, I I, I do think [00:55:40] that it happens some. Mm-hmm. And, and, but I would say that like, for instance, my dad, my dad's dad never did that with him.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: You know, [00:55:50] and for me to have my dad do that and say, I'm proud of you or great job son is, I mean, like. Words are healing, right?
Affirmation is [00:56:00] healing. And we have this time where probably more than ever before, even after going through COVID, where there's less human connection, there's less, you know, people hugging and high fiving and, and putting their hands on each other's [00:56:10] shoulders, saying mm-hmm. You know, great job. And so this is another, I know this wasn't, wasn't exactly asking.
We're talking about cool stuff, I guess. Whole point of it.
Dave: Yeah. I'm wondering, Josh, you know a lot about nutrition, you know, we're [00:56:20] both big fans of collagen. What do you feed your kids?
Josh: So we feed them a lot of meat, a lot of vegetables, and a lot of fruit, I would say primarily. [00:56:30] And so, my wife got into making sourdough, uh, whole grain sourdough.
So we do some sourdough too. We do a lot of whole grass fed butter. It's, so, why? Well, you know, I shouldn't say whole. We do mostly iron corn. Okay. [00:56:40] But, you know, we, we've toy around with a little barley and rye, but for the most part it's been. Yeah, it's, it's, it's been that and then heaps of, heaps of butter we get at the farmer's market, you know?
Mm-hmm. [00:56:50] Sometimes we joke around and we're like, we're putting, you know, bread on our butter
Dave: instead of butter bread. That's the way to do it. Yeah. My daughter, first time she sat on Santa's lap, he said, what do you want, little girl? And [00:57:00] she was very young. She goes, I want my own stick of grass fed salted butter.
And he looked at me like I was a child abuser. I'm like, what? Uh, and I said, no. Yeah. And when she got it, that was her [00:57:10] favorite gift. She just wanted to open it like a candy bar and just take a bite. 'cause kids need butter. Yeah. That's just how it is.
Josh: Yeah. This discussion, I think is also a little bit of like, over time we will continue to look at what our kids, we feel like they [00:57:20] thrive on and do well with.
Because I'm a big believer in personalized nutrition. Yeah. I think some people can do carnivores, some can do keto, some can do Mediterranean. But I think generally [00:57:30] finding the foods that are, and I also really believe that. Based on the foods we eat when we're younger, especially if they're healthy, you will better digest those foods later on in life.
Like I, [00:57:40] I was reading a study on pomegranates and Uli a and there was one study that find that that, and, and you know this from studying so much mitochondrial health mm-hmm. But a lot of, for [00:57:50] 60% of the population, when they consume pomegranates, their body isn't turning allergic acid into uly and a, which is what you really need for mitochondrial healing and repair.
Mm-hmm. [00:58:00] However, the study found one of the greatest ways to fix that. Was it Take pro? Well, the biggest things were actually probiotics and prebiotics. Yeah. Takes [00:58:10] uly a Right. But the actual, I think, I think there was one study that found one of the biggest ways to fix it is just keep eating them and your body will get better at it.
Sure. It, it's [00:58:20] just a
Dave: prebiotic. Everything's a prebiotic. Right.
Josh: Yeah. So, so I, I do think there's an element of like, like we feed our kids. It's a lot of berries and it's a lot of [00:58:30] apples and it's a lot of. Steamed vegetables and it's a lot of meat. Okay. Is sweet potatoes and then priced sourdough bread. I mean, that's primarily, you know, good [00:58:40] fats too.
A lot of coconut and avocado. But you're feeding your kids a high oxalate diet. Why? Yeah, I was waiting for it. 'cause I knew I was [00:58:50] you, you know what we, my belief system around oxalates are if you cook the foods and you have the right gut [00:59:00] bacteria, I. They will be less harmful to the body and the positives outweigh the negatives.
Now again, I know that yourself or Dr. Gundry is gonna [00:59:10] probably not agree with, with my take on that, or, or may not fully agree. You, you can reduce
Dave: some if, if you boil and pour the water off. Yeah. That's for sure. But if you bake it, it doesn't change the [00:59:20] oxalate.
Josh: No, it doesn't. But we do steamed almost, almost, almost primarily.
So, um, and I've noticed the biggest differences in myself with that. Like if I eat a lot of baked, I don't, [00:59:30] I don't feel the best. Mm-hmm. If I eat raw, I don't feel great. Yeah. If I eat steamed for myself, I feel very good doing steamed, um, steamed vegetables there. And in the [00:59:40] fruits I, you know, I found that apples I probably feel the best with.
They're low oxalate. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the pectin and just the way it supports bowel function is really great. So we probably eat [00:59:50] apples. Plums and pears more than anything.
Dave: Those are good choices. I, I have an experiment that you might wanna run. Yeah. Eat three boxes [01:00:00] of raspberries and blackberries.
Josh: Well, first off, can I tell you, when I was a kid, I tried that with strawberries and my stomach was just, strawberries are
Dave: different. They're [01:00:10] lower in oxalate, but they're higher in histamine. So that was probably a histamine thing. Amine. Yeah. But so many people, so this is a quick story. I went to the farmer's [01:00:20] market and I would just buy tons of berries.
I'm like, I want to be healthy. And pretty soon I was having to pee like urgently 20, 30 times a day. Mm. And it was disruptive [01:00:30] of my life. And I went to the Longevity doc I worked with, um, he was the only one in the Bay Area, and he was like, never heard of this before. And I went and they put a camera in a place where cameras should never [01:00:40] go.
Like we can't see anything. And over the course of a year, I. I'm like, it's the raspberries. And it turns out they're almost as high as spinach in oxalates. [01:00:50] So I was having razor sharp microscopic calcium oxalate crystals in my urine and they were irritating the urethra. Mm-hmm. And I quit the raspberries.
[01:01:00] The problem went away. Yeah. And I've seen so many women with interstitial cystitis or frequent UTIs, like, well you have UTIs 'cause you're slicing the membrane [01:01:10] Right. In your urethra, which allows bacteria to get in. So I'm not saying you can't ever eat a raspberry. Yeah. I'm just saying like, your total intake matters.
And that's why I do sourdough now, which people are gonna be what? I buy french [01:01:20] flour with no glyphosate. I make white flour, which is low oxalate. Yeah. Wheat flour would trash me and then I ferment the crap out of it and I can eat that with some enzymes. I don't have any issues. Yeah. So it, it's [01:01:30] like it's personalized just like you're saying.
And you, you handle it well. But I was just wondering 'cause I hear, you know, pomegranates and figs are high. You, you, you,
Josh: I, I, I, I, I think that personalized [01:01:40] nutrition is, well, I think it's where it's at. If you, we talked about Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, I think we're seeing this today, is that there, there are a lot of things that people highlight, like as [01:01:50] M-T-H-F-R, that there's one example.
Mm-hmm. Again, I, I, I, I believe there's a lot of things we don't know yet in terms of, there are some people that I know can process and deal with oxalates [01:02:00] very easily, and they're not gonna have those issues. Mm-hmm. And then some people, it's, I absolutely destroy and wreck their entire life and health.
And so I think this is what, you know, the people that I think are at the [01:02:10] highest level in their field tend to have the greatest level of awareness. Like if you spend time around rabbis, pastors, monks,
Music: mm-hmm.
Josh: There's this level of spiritual awareness that they have and this sort of calmness and demeanor to [01:02:20] them because they're at this level, high level of spiritual awareness.
I think people that are physically healthy, the ones that become the healthiest. Or are growing the most in [01:02:30] their health are the ones that are the most aware. It's of what's going on in their own body. Exactly.
Dave: Very well said. Yeah. Well, Josh, uh, you've definitely had a big impact on the world. You've shared so [01:02:40] much information about health and wellness, and I actually like it that you're taking a, a Christian perspective on it because the spiritual side, whether it's Christian or [01:02:50] meditation or whatever, I'm, I'm cool with all of it.
Ignoring the, the spiritual aspect of life or nutrition or exercise, the meaning and purpose [01:03:00] side of things. You don't get the results you want. Yeah. So I appreciate that you're willing to go out there and, and talk about it. And if you're listening to the show and saying, well, I don't like that. [01:03:10] Okay, let's take a deep breath.
Let's not be triggered because. I don't like any of the presidential candidates perfectly. Right. Because all of them do [01:03:20] at least one thing that I don't like. So I could say, I'll just hold hate in my heart and be angry because that one didn't do everything I wanted. And it's like, are you stuck at 12 years old?
Because people will do some [01:03:30] things you like and some things you don't like. Pomegranates, do some things you like, lyth a some things you don't like oxalate. Nothing is all good or all evil. Yeah. So just chill a little bit and be curious. [01:03:40]
Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, you know, I, I think, I think for me, I, uh, when I first got into practice, the, the, the, the conditions that were growing the most quickly were [01:03:50] childhood diabetes and hypothyroidism and some of those, those autoimmune disease and infections.
But I think over the past five to seven years, really after [01:04:00] really, especially going through COVID mm-hmm. The conditions I've seen growing the most are. Mental health disorders. Mm-hmm. And, and depression and anxiety and identity issues. And so I think that [01:04:10] now more than ever, and we've seen a big shift in people, I think becoming aware again, it's just so interesting, like, it's crazy to say this there.
Well, there are a lot of parts of me that [01:04:20] are grateful for what happened during COVID because it exposed so many Oh yeah. Lies in corruption and all of those things. And, and I think about just the change of [01:04:30] perspective of people like Russell Brand or Joe Rogan, or Jordan Peterson. Mm-hmm. Some of these people, how they've become more spiritually inclined and aware.
And I think for [01:04:40] myself, when I think about my own health. Or the health of patients, the thing that we don't talk about enough, and the, and I'm so grateful that you're so open. I see you, and you, and you talk about way more in your podcast now [01:04:50] than ever before, is, is that our spiritual and mental health affects our physical health.
I truly believe more than diet nutrition.
Music: Mm-hmm.
Josh: I think that I could eat, like when I not have a patient come in with [01:05:00] irritable bowel disease, if they would eat a conventional pizza, it would wreck their system. But other times they'd be eating perfectly. And I'm like, did you eat the pizza again? They're like, no, but I'm going through [01:05:10] stress at home.
And so I think if people want to heal physically focusing on their spiritual and mental health is just as [01:05:20] important as your diet, as doing different biohacks, any of these things. And so, and I think, I mean part of that is pursuing your identity knowing your identity, your [01:05:30] purpose, and just having a greater connection with God.
And so it's, uh, anyways, thanks so much for giving me the opportunity course to, to talk about it.
Dave: If you like this episode, do you know what to do? Go out there [01:05:40] and learn some more, and I'll just say, pray, meditate, send energy into your next meal, and connect with it. And who knows, maybe your mitochondria [01:05:50] listening.
See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.