Dave: [00:00:00] I think that adaptogens are generally good if you're blocking your [00:00:05] cortisol and blocking your stress response entirely. That's not an adaptogen, that's a sedative. I
Jeff: [00:00:10] love adaptogens. They're get their name from helping your body adapt to the stresses of life. [00:00:15] Cool thing about adaptogens is they'll help you rev up or rev down, so they're very [00:00:20] dynamic.
It's kind of an overused term, like there really aren't as many adaptogens as people claim. [00:00:25] There's so many supplements out there with merit that you don't feel
Dave: there are. Definitely [00:00:30] some that have metals, some that don't have the right ingredients, and if you go to Amazon, at least [00:00:35] half are not real.
They're counterfeit.
Jeff: I just read yesterday that like [00:00:40] 80% of supplements out there are just crap
Dave: on Amazon anywhere. How do you know when you look at a [00:00:45] brand, whether it's a scammer brand or a real brand, you are listening to [00:00:50] the Human upgrade with Dave Asprey.[00:00:55]
You have done something interesting and so I want to have you on the show where [00:01:00] you're looking at what is the combination of things you could do in the morning. Yeah. That makes people feel [00:01:05] really good. This has been my obsession for 30 years. 'cause I didn't feel good. [00:01:10] And you used some really unusual things.
One that I wanted to call out was [00:01:15] Saffron. Yeah. Why would you put Saffron in any person in the morning?
Jeff: Saffron. I mean, [00:01:20] Saffron's the best. I love it for, you know, the mood and what it does for you [00:01:25] at night doesn't help you fall asleep, but once you are asleep, right, it gives you this. Better, [00:01:30] fuller recovery, deeper sleep, faster to rem things that I find are really [00:01:35] foundational to feeling good, right?
Like mm-hmm. Nothing replaces a good night's sleep as
Dave: [00:01:40] far as I can tell. And from talking with, uh, the first company, they made a saffron extract. I [00:01:45] formulated something years ago when I was at Bulletproof and it might have been, or maybe was the [00:01:50] first commercial formulation with Saffron extract data, right?
And the data was. Was so [00:01:55] strong and I'm not at Bulletproof, I don't think they even make that stuff anymore. So having a good source of it in [00:02:00] MTE is important. The studies on it are insane. Like they, it works better [00:02:05] for depression than some SSRIs. Totally. And it's good for [00:02:10] the brain. And Daniel Amon, who's a good friend, who's been on the show many times, [00:02:15] um, talks about it a lot online.
I think it's his favorite cognitive enhancer. [00:02:20] So it's one of these things where, wait. I thought Saffron was for making rice yellow. [00:02:25] Right, right, right, right. Yeah. How many other herbs are actually
Jeff: [00:02:30] medicinal and we just like the taste? Good question. I mean, holy basil, [00:02:35] right? Like there's, I mean, the list goes on, but Yeah, I think so.
Oregano, right? [00:02:40] Right. I mean, I just took my son's fighting off a cold and I woke up [00:02:45] feeling more tired than I felt like I should have to oregano right down the hatch. You know, it's like. [00:02:50] Nature's antibiotics, right? Mm-hmm. Like I love oregano. Put it in the diffuser, like get a [00:02:55] natural source of it. Tastes terrible.
Yep. So we keep it outta the [00:03:00] formula, but yeah. I can't imagine oregano in an MTE. It would good. we have [00:03:05] like ashwagandha is an example. A lot of people are, are like, how much ashwagandha do you [00:03:10] have? You know, is it, was it for mood? And I'm like, look, the ashwagandha's [00:03:15] adaptogenic in our formula. I.
Mood like this, the clinicals on our [00:03:20] saffron look at placebo for reduced depression. Mm-hmm. Versus, you know, [00:03:25] 28 milligrams is what we use. It's four x, right. The reduction in depression, [00:03:30] anger, confusion. Right. All these, these mood markers. It's just, and then now we're [00:03:35] starting to see, uh, they just released some clinical studies and actually helping them menopause [00:03:40] symptoms.
And like, wow. The physical manifestation, it's reducing heat flashes. It's, you know, [00:03:45] it's, it's reducing a number of different symptoms pertaining specifically to [00:03:50] menopause, which, which I thought, okay, it'll be cognitive. But when I started hearing it was actually [00:03:55] also the physical manifestation of it. I mean.
Saffron's the best. I love it. [00:04:00] Yeah. And I do like, and I love paella too, so I, I use it to color the rice
Dave: [00:04:05] also. You have me for a minute. I'm like, paella, is that a new supplement? I'm like, no, he is talking [00:04:10] about food. Okay. That was
Jeff: funny. I look at MTEI. As a vessel. Mm-hmm. [00:04:15] And not, and not a fixed formula.
Right. So that's the right way to do it. Right. Right. So we're [00:04:20] continually, like, one of the things I'm really mm-hmm. Considering mm-hmm. Putting in it, I wanna learn more, maybe you can [00:04:25] advise me, I know you know, this stuff like, like better than most is ergot Thionine. Mm-hmm. [00:04:30] Like, I've become aware of it and just sort of obsessive about.
You know, like [00:04:35] glutathione and, and what it can do, but it's half-life is so small.
Dave: Berge is the next [00:04:40] glutathione. Right. I, I believe there's a couple companies I've heard that [00:04:45] are kind of investigating it, you know, about the business of Biohacking conference. Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:50] So somebody who was there last year was thinking about it, but I don't remember who it was.
Okay. Uh, [00:04:55] so I, I think you could do it. Your challenge is. [00:05:00] If you promote a hero ingredient that other people promote, right? Yeah. [00:05:05] There's a downside, like I promoted MCT and collagen, right? They're both billion dollar industries now. Uhhuh and [00:05:10] I captured my share of them, but others captured a greater share than I did.
But that's okay if like I need it to happen [00:05:15] at, everything's good, right? But if you're gonna put a marketing dollar in, you know. [00:05:20] Ergot thine is a major portion of your cost structure and you're, [00:05:25] you're doing the whole formula. Does ergot thine have enough sensation per [00:05:30] dollar of cogs Right. To make it worth it?
Yep. And, and that's a hard thing to judge, [00:05:35] but that's how I look at it.
Jeff: It's an interesting view. 'cause I, I would never look at [00:05:40] it that way. I think that's the right way to look at it, to preface it. But yeah, I look [00:05:45] at it, you know, probably the less sophisticated way where I'm like, do I want to take this?
This [00:05:50]
Dave: is something I want. Yeah. I do the same thing. And just having made formulas that [00:05:55] are so fucking epic, but it's $120 a bottle, right? [00:06:00] Like no one, no one will buy it. Right? Right. So then it's like, how do I maximize for [00:06:05] consumption? Right. And if I have an 80% solution that 80% of people take, or I have a hundred percent solution [00:06:10] that 20% of people take, I've done less good in the world.
Right. And this is painful. I almost want like the, the pro [00:06:15] version that only 2000 people are gonna take. Right. Right, right. And that may be the [00:06:20] answer, like the VIP version where Yeah. Like, you know, we went all out and you have to have taken [00:06:25] the regular stuff. You can be qualified. Yeah. Like this is our insider's club.
Yeah. And you're gonna get first [00:06:30] access and it's gonna cost more, but it's gonna be worth it. There's probably some business there, [00:06:35] depending on your
Jeff: volume. Get my juices blowing. And I love that. Okay. Because I, I love that from a consumer and a brand, right. [00:06:40] Because I would do just that. And, and it's fair.
'cause some people are like, I mean, first of all it's, it can [00:06:45] be unapproachable. Yep. In a real way. Some people, I think, just don't see the value in themselves. [00:06:50] You know, when somebody sits here and says, this is too expensive. And I'm like, it's $3 a [00:06:55] day. Like, what are you spending $3
Dave: a day on? Yeah. It's less than like a brewed [00:07:00] coffee.
It's less than french fries at McDonald's. Right? Yeah.
Jeff: You know, so if, if [00:07:05] it's, if that's expensive and you know, and you're like. You're on your a thousand [00:07:10] dollars iPhone telling me it's too expensive. Right? Yeah. I think there's, I think we're missing something. Or if you drink any [00:07:15] alcohol at all at like one beer, right?
Like one beer a month, you know, it's like, yeah. [00:07:20] Yeah. Totally. And um, so it's, it's interesting, I, I'm with you. [00:07:25] 'cause I don't, you don't wanna create something that's unapproachable. Like we talk about that with the team all the time. Mm-hmm. This amazing [00:07:30] product in the corner that nobody knows about and it's unapproachable and nobody gets it.
[00:07:35] I've just made it for myself. Like I, I shouldn't have bothered with the website and all that other shit. I just have my [00:07:40] own
Dave: formula. I could just take it. It's funny that we're talking about this because I mean, when I. [00:07:45] I started the world's first clean coffee back at Bulletproof. The market size was zero, right?
I'm [00:07:50] like, I just hope a hundred people will come in just to help offset the cost of lab testing and all this stuff I want to do. [00:07:55] The market size was much larger, but I wasn't like betting on a market. I made a market and now [00:08:00] biohacking is like a $63 billion industry, right? In 2032 or something, if you [00:08:05] believe the analysts.
I wish I never do. So it's like, great. That all worked out. But [00:08:10] the idea was I wanted that coffee and then the supplements are when I started. I'm like, why I want [00:08:15] that. I don't care about the cost. Yeah. And I. You can get the very high end of the market. [00:08:20] And at a certain point though, everyone's like, I want to do that.
And then you're saying, well, if this [00:08:25] ingredient made it double in price, it's a great ingredient, but that means a large number of [00:08:30] people just aren't gonna do it. So maybe I'll break that into its separate product, right? And no one knows [00:08:35] like what's the optimal down? Especially because. For, you [00:08:40] know, for you Saffron may be like the life changing ingredient and for [00:08:45] me, maybe it's altheine.
Yeah. Right. But I know Saffron's more expensive than thine. Like, ah, [00:08:50] like how do we do this? So for totally, for people listening. We're all working [00:08:55] to to help you out if we're working for the good guys and there are other people who are just saying, [00:09:00] how can I buy cheap stuff and put a pretty label on it, right?
How do you know when you look at a brand [00:09:05] that's not MTE Uhhuh, whether it's a scammer brand or a real brand, [00:09:10]
Jeff: lemme just go back to your point real quick. So the people listening to Saffron's worth it, [00:09:15] it is worth every penny. That's a good question. I just read, uh, [00:09:20] yesterday that like 80% of supplements out there just.
[00:09:25] Crap right
Dave: on, on
Jeff: Amazon
Dave: anywhere you, you know, I kind of [00:09:30] think the person saying, I'm not sure who said that exact one. I kind of think that there may be [00:09:35] bias towards selling you their brand Totally. Or, or from big Pharma. That number seems high to me. [00:09:40] Okay. But there are definitely some that have metals, some [00:09:45] that don't have the right ingredients.
And if you go to Amazon, at least half are, [00:09:50] are. Not real. They're counterfeit. Right? So you have to buy them from the brand store on Amazon. [00:09:55] And if you're a good person, you go to the the [00:10:00] vendor's website and you buy it because they make more money. Right. Which keeps 'em in business. [00:10:05] And Amazon doesn't need any, anymore money.
Isn't that the truth? So I'm, I'm hopeful [00:10:10] that I can have an AI agent and I'm working on this stuff, uh, pretty soon, where anything that I want to buy on [00:10:15] Amazon mm-hmm. It'll redirect it. To the vendor's website without me having to do [00:10:20] anything. That's interesting. Wouldn't that be cool? 'cause then they could just go right to MT and buy it from you and like [00:10:25] what's the difference in your business if someone goes to mt, was it mte.com?
I dunno what's get mt.com. So [00:10:30] get mt.com. Yeah. If they go there and they buy something, like what's an approximate margin there? If you [00:10:35] can, if you're willing to talk about that, it, it's significantly more than Amazon. I can tell you that. Amazon will take 30% of your [00:10:40] mm-hmm. And And the storage fees. And the shipping fees and, yeah.
Oh, and when people buy an Amazon. [00:10:45] You pay the shipping and they wonder why it's more. Yeah. So my stuff usually is a couple bucks more on [00:10:50] Amazon. Yep. Not 'cause I wanna screw people just because Amazon is taking that from me. And [00:10:55] there's times where like you break even on Amazon if you sell it at the same price as your store.
'cause there's [00:11:00] such a fat, so I'm like Amazon already is, is selling [00:11:05] counterfeit things. Yeah. 'cause the controls aren't good. So I do my best to not buy my supplements and if I [00:11:10] do, I always go to the brand store. To the brand
Jeff: store. Yep. Yeah, it's interesting. I, I, uh. [00:11:15] Because the friction of having to put your, you know, like you think about a, just a, a [00:11:20] general person in the world and wants to have a supplement stack.
You've [00:11:25] got, you know, here and here and all these different sites, and then do I want a [00:11:30] subscription? I'm not sure if I love it enough, so I'll get a one off and try it or get a couple months worth. Mm-hmm. [00:11:35] You know, you know the, the. Like they're pretty well worn path. Yeah. Or just go to Amazon, click, click, [00:11:40] click, click, click.
Mm-hmm. Right. So like, we like Amazon. I mean, we're on Amazon. [00:11:45] But we also like it better. You don't, you don't like Amazon.
Dave: You're saying that 'cause you're afraid [00:11:50] they'll take your thing off. Come on, dude. You could be truthful here. Uh, I don't think they would, we're too small.
Jeff: [00:11:55] They're, they're like, they, they don't care about us.
Um, but, [00:12:00] so by
the
Dave: way, I have to tell you this. There was a [00:12:05] time I was spending $400,000 a month on ads on Amazon. Mm-hmm. And I was at [00:12:10] their headquarters in their fishbowl recording something. Yeah. And [00:12:15] they shut my Amazon store down in the middle of it. Why? They said [00:12:20] fake reviews. Okay. Now there were no fake reviews.
Yeah, I I [00:12:25] There just weren't any, yeah, like we weren't doing it. No one was doing it. Our reviews were real, they were just very [00:12:30] positive Uhhuh. Right. And they're saying, oh, no, no one did that. That was just an automated thing because you [00:12:35] had a lot of positive reviews. I. And it just happened in the, so no, they don't care [00:12:40] about you.
They don't even know what the heck's going on. Yeah. So I don't wanna be like antiaz Amazon, it's also like, makes it easy to [00:12:45] buy stuff. But I'll just say, if you're listening to the show and you appreciate what I'm doing, [00:12:50] you appreciate MDE, you appreciate any of this stuff. Like support the people making it because it's, [00:12:55] it's rough these days.
You sell something on Amazon, it's like you're as an entrepreneur making minimum [00:13:00] wage by the time you pay all their stuff and they're looking for that monopoly. It's kind of gross. What [00:13:05] he said. By the way, you can go to Amazon and buy all my props.[00:13:10] [00:13:15]
Talk to me about
Jeff: theanine. Yeah, love it. So I, [00:13:20] what I really like is theanine and gaba. So one of the first things I went to [00:13:25] when I had the high blood pressure and I was trying to supplement myself out of it, you know, in addition to [00:13:30] meditation and doing different things, was a supplement that was.
Theanine and GABA [00:13:35] alone was, it was sublingual and I loved it. It just, I just felt [00:13:40] good, right? Mm-hmm. If you will. And you know, and I remember taking it and thinking, I don't know [00:13:45] what, if this is doing anything for my blood pressure, but I just love the way I feel with this combination. Right. And [00:13:50] so, and it doesn't make you tired when you do it in the afternoon?
No, no. It gives me, I [00:13:55] think when you, when you balance it out. With something that has, you know, a little [00:14:00] bit of the stimulus. Mm-hmm. It has the nice, yeah.
Dave: Right. There's a, a [00:14:05] few brands who try to sell theanine in, in coffee. I [00:14:10] don't think it tastes amazing to blend them together like that. It doesn't need to be in the coffee.
You just take it with any [00:14:15] source of caffeine and ine takes the edge off. Right. And it's just a amino acid from green [00:14:20] tea, but the studies on theanine for lower cortisol are pretty meaningful. Yeah. So you [00:14:25] could see why if, especially people, they get the afternoon crash. If you have high blood pressure, [00:14:30] usually there's an insulin issue, so you're gonna have hypoglycemia at the two o'clock crash.
I had my twenties. [00:14:35] So the body feels physiological anxiety when blood sugar crashes and you're like, eh, [00:14:40] like I'm tired and I'm wired and like brain fog. Right? So Daba. [00:14:45] Chills you out thine. It's a different feeling than gaba, but it, it's, [00:14:50] uh, it's almost a little bit nootropic and calming. Totally. But neither one makes you tired [00:14:55] and you can take 'em both before bed.
Yeah. Because of the chill out effect, but they're not sedating. [00:15:00] Yep. Right. So now you've smoothed out that afternoon. Like [00:15:05] it's actually an adrenaline cortisol thing that happens when blood sugar crashes. Yeah. So you smooth that [00:15:10] out. People are feeling better. Yep. One of the more intriguing ingredients that you have in [00:15:15] MTE is BHT, the preservative that Vni Harry hates.
Why [00:15:20] would you do that? BHT.
Jeff: Yeah.
Dave: Ated. Hydroxy, toline. I can't believe you do that. [00:15:25]
Jeff: What is that?
Dave: Sorry, I'm just messing with you. [00:15:30]
Jeff: What is
Dave: BHT? BHT is a synthetic [00:15:35] oil antioxidant. Okay. And it, it's used [00:15:40] in like big food as a preservative to stop oxidation of foods. Okay. [00:15:45] At low levels. It's an endocrine disruptor and you don't want it uhhuh.
We took it at [00:15:50] high levels in the eighties and nineties for longevity 'cause it stabilizes cell membranes. [00:15:55] And I wouldn't use it for that anymore, but it is a rapid cure [00:16:00] for any PX virus, including chicken pox or shingles or herpes. [00:16:05] Really at high dose percent. Yeah, 300 milligrams a day. Way more than you'd ever find in food.
The food, [00:16:10] it's, they paint it on the packaging and small amounts stop oil from going rancid. Um, so I would say it's [00:16:15] not good to have it in your food all the time, but if you have a pox virus, you want that. But I was just kidding because, uh, [00:16:20] Vannie, Harri food babe, who's a, a good friend, um, she's just on a thing against BHT and she's Right.
[00:16:25] And at the same time I'm like, but you could use it medically. So anyway, I was just trying to just. Mess with you. [00:16:30] Okay? But since you're not into the, the B HT thing, it didn't work. So I, I failed man. [00:16:35] I'm sorry, my, my ignorance disappoints. Oh, man. Well, it's 'cause [00:16:40] you're focused on adaptogens and things like that.
You, you actually do have [00:16:45] an ingredient that I haven't done a lot of research on, so I want you to teach me about it. Amaranth. [00:16:50] Uhhuh, it's just an extract. It's just a, yeah, like some grain in there. I know what emran is. I've [00:16:55] eaten it. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't recommend it as a. Type of amaranth bread or something.
Right. Why would [00:17:00] you include it in MTE?
Jeff: So we wanted a couple superfoods in there. Okay. So spirulina and amaranth, which [00:17:05] sort of, you know, it's, we wanted sort of a, a triangle, right? Nootropic, [00:17:10] adaptogen superfood. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, the guy that really helped us as an irate [00:17:15] formulator who, who really helped us mastermind this formula as we sort of tinkered and tweaked around [00:17:20] and he just kept selling amreth.
And I was like, dude, I don't even like. Red spinach. I [00:17:25] got on, I thought spinach was green, and you know. Mm-hmm. He was like, nah, dude, trust me. We need [00:17:30] amaranth. We want amaranth. Here's why. And so, you know, he just, he just kind of sold us on, [00:17:35] you know, amaranth being clean. Great. The only thing that, that he really [00:17:40] sold us on was, you know, high doses of it.
You don't want Exactly. Right. So [00:17:45] it's a, it's a low dose, not a, it's not a pixie dust, but it's a, it's a low dose. It's [00:17:50] enough to feed your gut bacteria to cause a shift, right? Correct. Okay. Correct. And then we've got the chicory root to sort [00:17:55] of amplifies that, right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, that was, it was all sort of like [00:18:00] in a vacuum?
No, in high doses, no. But in conjunction with the [00:18:05] 10 other ingredients. Perfect. And we're like, okay, let's do it.
Dave: And, and so it's [00:18:10] mostly a, a prebiotic effect mm-hmm. That you're getting from ath. Mm-hmm. That makes sense. [00:18:15] And as I recall, Amreth doesn't have any gluten in it. Correct. So it's, it's safe foric, uh, [00:18:20] people and things like that.
Yep. I'm, I'm generally like don't eat grains, [00:18:25] however. Mm-hmm. I'll call it microdosing, a grain like that to cause your gut bacteria to shift. [00:18:30] It's not really eating. It's a medicinal use of it, which is agreed, which is kind of cool. And then [00:18:35] spirulina now. Mm-hmm. I've done whole episodes on spirulina.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:18:40] Sometimes I love it and sometimes I'm like, I'm not sure. How do you know you have good spirulina in [00:18:45] there?
Jeff: Well, it's funny you say that. So same deal, like I, my [00:18:50] philosophy is most of it's bad. Mm-hmm. Like I think that there's a bunch of junk spirulina out there, [00:18:55] and one of the things we do, and I'm sure you're familiar with this being in the, in the space, [00:19:00] is there's all sorts of testing, right?
Like you can just test and confirm that [00:19:05] something's in it. Mm-hmm. And the test stops there. Or you can. Test something's in it, and [00:19:10] that's all that's in it, right? Like those types of things I think are important, right? Instead of just [00:19:15] saying, oh yeah, sure, there's, there's a little bit of spline in there, but it's also [00:19:20] this and this and this and this that you didn't test for, 'cause all, all you wanted to know is whether or not there, there's a certain [00:19:25] property, so, so you test it from metals and things like that.
Totally. Okay, good. This is [00:19:30] unrelated, but. My brother owns a coffee farm in Hawaii. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. And [00:19:35] so we, he ships us our stuff in, we call it liquid gold. Mm-hmm. That's not what he calls it. He calls it [00:19:40] pur vita. And lo like, love it. Most of the coffee I get, I, it tastes [00:19:45] bitter to me or whatever, like, I just don't like it.
This is incredible.
Dave: Oh, thanks. This is [00:19:50] really good. Yeah. The, the substrate coffee for danger is, [00:19:55] is. It's very high end. And the minerals, I think you don't taste them, but your [00:20:00] brain knows. Yeah. Like, oh, there's something in there. So yeah, I'm, uh, I appreciate it every morning [00:20:05] and thanks for the compliment.
Yeah. I'm always somewhat concerned [00:20:10] with adaptogens. The reason is that if I'm gonna go work out mm-hmm. If I'm on [00:20:15] adaptogens, am I gonna get the results of the workout? Why not? I mean, if I don't have the [00:20:20] stress response I was supposed to have. Mm-hmm. So like if someone's training Yep. When would [00:20:25] you use or not use MTE or any other adaptogen?
So, you know, I
Jeff: [00:20:30] think there's a bunch of school thoughts on that. Yeah. But the, the stance we've taken is we [00:20:35] kind of went back to the origin, right? Where this is a product of the Russian athletic and space [00:20:40] program. Mm-hmm. So looking at it in the way that they used it, which was. For athletic [00:20:45] performance, right.
And physical performance and kind of noting, sure, there's cognition, but really [00:20:50] that was mm-hmm. An afterthought for the Russians. Right. And the, the OG or like Siberian, Siberian ginseng [00:20:55] and all those things. This is more about physical manifestation of performance. Like, can you [00:21:00] kill the enemy? Yeah. Yeah.
Totally. With that accent, it's good. It's [00:21:05] like, uh, spies like us. Not a very good accent. I [00:21:10] get it. Um. So that, so we felt like, [00:21:15] look, it just helps you adapt to some of that physical stress, but not so much where you're [00:21:20] not able to break down and then rebuild and get, and get the benefit of the actual [00:21:25] exercise.
So, you know, it's, to me it's sort of like, like modern day I think about [00:21:30] cold plunge or some of the studies are like if you cold plunge right after you work out, you may be doing yourself more harm. Yeah. You [00:21:35] should do it before you work out. Right. So that occurred to us and I was like, is this. [00:21:40] Is this going to inhibit?
You know, and everything you just articulated and the feeling [00:21:45] was it, it won't because frankly it has some elasticity. Right? [00:21:50] Like at some point you, it's you're going to exceed the load will [00:21:55] exceed. Yeah. Its ability to help you adapt to the stress.
Dave: Right. I, [00:22:00] I think that adaptogens are, are generally good.
If you're [00:22:05] blocking your cortisol and blocking your stress response entirely, that's not an adaptogen, [00:22:10] that's a sedative. Right. So what adaptogens originally [00:22:15] were deployed for, it was the, the medicine which [00:22:20] people working with soldiers.
Jeff: Yeah.
Dave: And they would, this is like a Russian [00:22:25] Siberian TI Mountains and another.
Thread in ancient Chinese [00:22:30] military. So those two things, and maybe some from my Veta, but I'm unfamiliar with the military use that far back. [00:22:35] So. The table of soldiers, they worry about battle [00:22:40] all night long. They wake up, they get into a fight, right? They have their battle and [00:22:45] then they're tweaked for another day or two.
And this is bad 'cause you want them to fight every day. [00:22:50] So, and this is also uniquely Russian thinking. Like, they're like, let's hack our people, which is why [00:22:55] Russians are great biohackers. So then they're like, okay. Maybe the right [00:23:00] thing to do is let's find the herbal combination that allows them to turn stress on [00:23:05] instantly and turn it off instantly.
So instead of this long, slow cortisol [00:23:10] area, it's like. Stress on stress off. Stress on stress off. Well, that means if you [00:23:15] exercise and you lift heavy and you're on adaptogens, your stress will turn on. It'll turn on [00:23:20] more quickly, which causes more rapid adaptation according to my last book. Mm-hmm. And it'll turn off [00:23:25] more quickly, which also causes rapid adaptation.
So it's not the amount of time you are stressed that built [00:23:30] the muscle, it's the degree of the stress and the degree of the recovery, and that makes it really [00:23:35] easy. So this is why I'm a huge fan of adaptogens, and I don't worry about. [00:23:40] Adaptogens limiting muscle growth or something. But antioxidants in excess will [00:23:45] limit that and so will cold exposure after exercise, but it'll amplify it before [00:23:50] exercise.
Right, right. So it's uh. It's an interesting [00:23:55] world where, uh, there's so many misconceptions out there about things and people [00:24:00] don't understand the mechanisms behind it. And one of the reasons I wanna chat with you is [00:24:05] you have kids. Yep. Ages 14 and 11. All right, so you've got [00:24:10] some experience here. Talk to me about parenting, burnout and energy drain.
What have you learned? I [00:24:15] love, I like, it's my favorite thing. Yeah. Like I didn't know I didn't want kids. And I mean, [00:24:20] worse from a stress perspective as in it's unrelenting. If the kids need you, you have to be there. Yeah.
Jeff: [00:24:25] Unrelenting. Like the other day I was backed up. I, I hadn't gotten [00:24:30] as much work done as I needed to do.
And I knew the rest of the week was gonna be [00:24:35] unrelenting. And my daughter was like, I have a math test tomorrow. I'm wildly unprepared for it, and I [00:24:40] need to study for like four or five hours.
Dave: Yeah.
Jeff: And I was like, okay. Drop [00:24:45] what you're doing and you know, go do that. But it was like, you know, it was two nights ago.
She aced the [00:24:50] test. Everybody's happy. My work is still got done. Did you give her some mt? I did [00:24:55] not. Why not? She doesn't like it. She doesn't drink anything. All her peers drink a [00:25:00] bunch of. Stuff that I won't mention that. And, uh, [00:25:05] I'm like, you gotta get 'em on mt. Like get 'em on something good for you. But she, she doesn't drink anything [00:25:10] like that.
She just, wow. She just drinks water. It's her bag. You know, [00:25:15]
Dave: I. I was so incredibly grateful. My daughter a couple years ago was [00:25:20] like, te, sometimes I don't get enough sleep and I have tests. You know, she kind of noticed me taking handfuls of [00:25:25] stuff. Yeah. Like what can I do? And so like, well, let's get you on some electrolytes.
Jeff: Yeah. [00:25:30]
Dave: And she's like, I noticed a difference. And then let's get you on, you know, some adaptogens. [00:25:35] And so she knows if she didn't get sleep and she wants to perform on the test. Yeah. She's got [00:25:40] the tools and she doesn't take that stuff every day, I don't think. Right. But just knowing, like if you're a [00:25:45] teenager, there's some stuff you can do that will probably give you 10 more points on your test without you having to [00:25:50] study more just because your brain works better.
'cause you didn't punch it in the face like, like that seems like a plan. Mt is a is [00:25:55] a great thing. More blood flow. Like all the things. Yeah, all the
Jeff: things. Yeah. It's not that hard. But the [00:26:00] trick is, the difference is you have to tell her. If I tell her, then we're gonna, you know, she's gonna be, oh, [00:26:05] yeah. You know,
Dave: that's how it's, now that goes it's funny, just from a parenting perspective, one of the greatest hacks I ever [00:26:10] learned was my kids, even though they're amazing, and sometimes they'll listen to me, but they'll, [00:26:15] by nature's wiring, listen to other people more.
Right. So you can pair [00:26:20] up with another dad and be like, you tell him some stuff, right? Yeah. And then I'll tell yours some stuff, right? So [00:26:25] kids, you should know that like parents, w we're playing chess, you're playing checkers. It's [00:26:30] supposed to be that way. Just remember that
Jeff: and then, and then, uh, and you'll, you'll be [00:26:35] back.
You're like 22. Yeah. You know, ish. Then, then all of a sudden, [00:26:40] dad's not a complete moron again,
Dave: since my kids were five, I've been telling them, you know what? [00:26:45] There's gonna be a time when I become the stupidest human on earth. I. And [00:26:50] they're like, daddy, you're perfect. You could never, you're the best. [00:26:55] And I'm like, I know.
It totally feels that way. Just remember. And it's, it's so, it's [00:27:00] mother nature hacking you so that you will go to another tribe, even if a, [00:27:05] a tiger, my two on the way, because I'm gonna be so incredibly stupid. And that's to [00:27:10] make sure that you don't reproduce with your family. Right. So that this is for gene expression and this is just how it works.
So it's [00:27:15] okay that I'll be really dumb.
Jeff: Yeah.
Dave: Like never. And then. Suddenly one day it happens and [00:27:20] then I go, see, I told you so. Right. And, and then it's like, can they double eye roll? [00:27:25] Because they, the first eye roll was the sign then it worked. Yeah. And so it's been really funny, but I think it [00:27:30] gave them permission to have those feelings.
And like I said, they come back when they're about 24. The PFC comes [00:27:35] online. I guess Dad's not that dumb. So I don't know. I've, I've got, uh, mine are a couple years [00:27:40] older than yours and I love my kids and they can. Yeah. Believe me or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But your kids can [00:27:45] believe me and maybe mine will believe you.
Yeah. There you go. So there you go. I love that. How do you teach your kids to regulate their nervous [00:27:50] systems? Because you've had to learn how to regulate yours. Yeah. What's the trick
Jeff: I, for? [00:27:55] For me, I mean, it's, it's the phones, right? I mean, it start, it starts there, right? So, mm-hmm. The [00:28:00] one thing that we tried to do is.
Keep it in [00:28:05] perspective. Mm-hmm. Right. Like going into perspective or it's something, and my daughter as an example, [00:28:10] she goes to school without it. Like no phone to school, no phone in the morning. And it's not [00:28:15] like, this is what we're doing, these are the rules. It's more of selling it to her.
Dave: Mm-hmm. [00:28:20]
Jeff: And, and helping her understand, look, it's, it's processing your [00:28:25] mind, right?
This isn't, that's not nothing. Right. You're looking at this, you're, you're [00:28:30] activating your mind. You're engaging it. Over and over and, and these algorithms, if [00:28:35] you're on whatever you're on, right. If you just did a, a chat, J pt, Google search, [00:28:40] certainly if you're on social media, so selling to her, look, if you're on a treadmill 20 [00:28:45] hours a day, you would drop, right?
Like, you know. Yeah. Or if you ate nine [00:28:50] meals mm-hmm. You know, in a 30 minute sitting you would, you would throw up. But [00:28:55] your mind for some reason isn't wired really to tell you. Especially at, at that age, [00:29:00] we can't take anymore. Right? We'll just keep going and keep going and keep going. And then until you, [00:29:05] you either are, are just totally fried or you know, something bad happens, right?
Mm-hmm. So we've, [00:29:10] we've sold that to her and, and to her credit, like she's bought it. I think we got to her before we [00:29:15] became total idiots. Mm-hmm. Right? And, uh, you [00:29:20] know, and, and. So the phone now is a tool I, so I think it started there [00:29:25] and then we just, you know, constantly just try to slip in little things.
Perspective. [00:29:30] Mm-hmm. Time for yourself. It's okay to be bored, right? Contemplate things. Think for [00:29:35] yourself. Just small things, little hacks here or there. Some of them shall [00:29:40] adopt. Like wholly, some of them she'll adopt 5%, you know, and then [00:29:45] sometimes she's like, yeah, rolls her eyes. And then two weeks later I'll hear that it's kind of [00:29:50] found its way into her vocabulary, you know?
So you're like, yeah. So that's really helped. And, and you [00:29:55] know what? It's given her you know, she's 14, she's eighth grade, my son, 11 [00:30:00] to, you know, fifth grade. Mm-hmm. It's, it's given them both. I think it's like. Their [00:30:05] superpower, it's giving them the calm, 'cause it's different when we grow up a of their phones.
When we grew up, it was like [00:30:10] everybody talks about it, right? You go out, you play till the. The street lamps. Come on, come home for [00:30:15] dinner type of thing.
Dave: Yeah. I, I had to ask
Jeff: my
Dave: dad for permission to have the right number of bullets. [00:30:20] Right. No, I'm from New Mexico. I'm not kidding. I'm gonna go [00:30:25] out in the desert and shoot some cactus.
Okay, son. You know, make sure there's an one behind the cactus.
Jeff: Right, right. [00:30:30] It's so different now. Oh, can you imagine? I mean, you can't, even, somebody I read, somebody got arrested the other [00:30:35] day 'cause they, they just, they let their kids go to the park by themselves and people found them playing. Oh [00:30:40] geez. At what point did we arrest the cops for doing that crap?
Right, right. Yeah. I mean, it's insane. It's insane. [00:30:45] Yeah. Like truly, it's like that's how we all grew up. I. I'm sure the cop arresting him [00:30:50] probably grew up that way. I don't think so. He wouldn't have been a cop
Dave: if he grew up that way. That's not true. I know [00:30:55] some really good cops. It's the ones who become cops who act that [00:31:00] way because there's a ton of cops who would just be like, you know, like Right.
Like maybe there's problem will drop the kid [00:31:05] off, but whoever does that to the parents man that that's an person doing evil and they have to know it. [00:31:10] Right? Yeah. Seemingly.
Jeff: But anyway, I mean, that's a whole other rabbit hole. Sure. But I, I, uh, [00:31:15] I think it's given them. That's, you know, a little bit old school.
Mm-hmm. In, in the, [00:31:20] in modern day chaos. And I think it's really helped them, you know, and it [00:31:25] helps us too. I mean, shit, we need it too. Mm-hmm. Right. So it's kind of, it's kind of a good reminder to [00:31:30] us, like we need to chill and not wake up and lead by example and on [00:31:35] it goes.
Dave: I [00:31:40] noticed just in parenting, the more regulated my nervous system is, then the more my kids [00:31:45] will be regulated. 'cause they're unconsciously copying us. Totally. I. And [00:31:50] adaptogens help with that. Like, and anything that helps me manage my biological state helps me [00:31:55] manage my energetic state that the kids are gonna pick up.
So it's, it's [00:32:00] how do you separate the line between physical and emotional? They're so connected. Yeah. [00:32:05] And so if I'd come home from, you know, I have to walk across the garden from the barn, but still, [00:32:10] you know, changing from, you know, work mode, dealing with, you know, tens of millions of dollars [00:32:15] and all sorts of big decisions.
And then coming home and shifting my state. [00:32:20] If I'm tweaked from something, yeah, it's not gonna be a good dinner. So the [00:32:25] ability to make that shift consciously and biologically at the [00:32:30] same time seems to be one of the most important parenting things. And of course, there's [00:32:35] times I, you know. You get stressed or pissed off and you say things you regret and all that.
Um, but [00:32:40] minimizing those by managing my biology, I think is important for parenting. Totally. And [00:32:45] so I could see thine and gaba some of your ingredients, kind of helping that. [00:32:50] Right.
Jeff: I love that. Yeah. Because look, when you feel good, you're better. Yes. Right. Whether it's, [00:32:55] you name it, right? Mm-hmm. It's holding the door for somebody, it's letting somebody in, in traffic, [00:33:00] whatever it is.
Mm-hmm. The dinner table and, and when you're. When you're tweaked. [00:33:05] I mean, I think it's one of the, the greatest powers that, that a, that a parent can have mm-hmm. Is not bringing home [00:33:10] work. Right? Mm-hmm. Good or bad. Mm-hmm. Right. Like, because it's different, right? [00:33:15] Like now you're, you're with your family.
They're not your work. They're not your job. And even though that's you, [00:33:20] you know, you need to sort of, it's like walking into a different room. What was happening in this room is not happening [00:33:25] in that room. And there, there's a wall there and they can't see it. They have no idea. So you can't come in [00:33:30] and assume they know and they're in on it, and you have to bring.
Whole different, and it's, and [00:33:35] on the flip side, it's a great opportunity. You can walk through the door and hit reset. That's true. Right. You don't [00:33:40] have whatever caused the disruption at work. On the other side, you just have like a [00:33:45] willing, happy, energetic, right? Like switch energy. [00:33:50] It's, it's like perspective.
Mm-hmm. Like I have an amazing opportunity to put all that behind me [00:33:55] immediately and just come in and, and just have a strong end of the day with my community. [00:34:00] Totally, totally real.
Dave: I. I think there's also value if [00:34:05] you have the ability to manage your stress and you're self-aware. There's been times where I, [00:34:10] you know, I, I'd come back home and just say, you know, Hey guys.
It was, it was a really rough day [00:34:15] today, right? Yeah. I'm a little tired, right. And I. [00:34:20] Admitting that to the kids when they're appropriate age, you know, seven, they can understand that. Yeah. Saying I'm a little tired. And [00:34:25] then as someone like, why? And then you can talk about it. So suddenly they're learning a little bit about business, but they're [00:34:30] also knowing that I am aware of my state.
Yep. Right. And that I'm doing something about it [00:34:35] or not doing something about it. Yeah. I hope that was a good parenting thing and when I work with [00:34:40] entrepreneurs. All the time. It's that. So just understanding our biology does [00:34:45] that. And it does it because the more stress hormones you have, the more dysregulated you are, the more the emotion [00:34:50] feels big.
Right? And the cure for that is to be less [00:34:55] dysregulated or to be more regulated. And so I'm hopeful that, 'cause I fed my kids [00:35:00] right. I made sure they sleep that whenever I'm an asshole, it left fewer [00:35:05] marks. But I don't know, I'm just doing my best. Right. It's only one way to find out. Yeah. Well ab test [00:35:10] them, right?
Yeah. There you go. Can't do that in parenting. Right. [00:35:15]
Jeff: We're we're very, very committed to good night's sleep for them. Oh. [00:35:20] It's the most important thing. That's how we feel. I mean, we are, we are. Pretty rigid [00:35:25] about it and, but it's, I mean, you can just see it bearing fruit, like, and that's what's cool about [00:35:30] it.
Yeah. Is you can see it in real time and long term. I mean, it's just, they're healthier, they're [00:35:35] happier, they're more, they're more prone to understanding. It is kind of, I. Like it's the [00:35:40] ultimate adaptogen. Right. It's just good night's sleep. Yeah, it, it's
Dave: completely true. [00:35:45] We've always blacked out their bedrooms.
Yep. Which means they're not afraid of the dark. That's ridiculous. Yep. [00:35:50] Yep. And the house has always had dim red lights if we need them at [00:35:55] night.
Jeff: Yeah.
Dave: So understanding circadian biology is just part of what they do. And [00:36:00] I know, especially my son, sometimes he's probably staring at his screen later than they should, whatever.
Like [00:36:05] they, they're getting it well enough. Yeah. That. Man, getting good sleep. It's, [00:36:10] it's. It means they're impervious to the stress. Yeah. That comes with being in high school. [00:36:15] And as an entrepreneur, getting good sleep means I can do, you know, six episodes today. [00:36:20] Yep. And I'm not gonna lose my energy. Right. But if I slept like a zombie last night, not in a good way, [00:36:25] but in a, you know, my sleep isn't working way Right.
I wouldn't be able to do it. So I, I [00:36:30] consider it to be important. But on the flip side. If you're stressed during the day, you're gonna need [00:36:35] more sleep and it won't be as good. Right. And that's why stacking it with something like [00:36:40] mte is a, is a good idea. And I, I also wanted to thank you. You offered our [00:36:45] listeners use code Dave for 20% off.
Get mt.com. So [00:36:50] guys, you wanna try something that tastes good, even though I guess you said your kids don't like it, but it tastes pretty good. One of 'em [00:36:55] does. One of 'em does. One of 'em loves it. Yeah. I think most kids actually would like him to eat. Yeah. 'cause it tastes good. Yeah. So [00:37:00] my guess is maybe that one kid, maybe they don't like it because it's yours.
I, yeah. I think she [00:37:05] just fine me mean, everyone I know tried it doesn't taste good. I, I think it tastes good. So Yeah. I'm like, that's weird. [00:37:10] All right. So two, two. Your child, um, who, who does that? Dude? I see [00:37:15] you if we've got your number. We know. So there, there. Now it won't work anymore [00:37:20] Anyway, get mte.com.
Use code. Dave. Guys, you want to try a cool [00:37:25] stack? You can take it in the morning if you tweak in the morning. Yep. And your primary use [00:37:30] case is use it noon to two or something.
Jeff: For me, I mean, I love, I love the focus [00:37:35] and the mood and the, and just the strong finish it gives me to the day the light euphoric energy.
[00:37:40] Sweet. You know, and then setting me up for success for recovery later. And you don't use it at [00:37:45] night? I, if I'm going out or I'm having a later night. Okay. But
Dave: usually
Jeff: no,
Dave: it, because it's [00:37:50] probably too stimulating right before bed. Yeah. It's
Jeff: not, yeah. Right before bed. No.
Dave: Okay. I've never that [00:37:55] it and just give the ingredients that there, I, I think this is like, I.
You know, if you're gonna stay out [00:38:00] late, whatever, but probably you want to end it like maybe 4:00 PM Yeah. Okay. I think that's about right. Just based [00:38:05] on the half life of ingredients and all. Yeah. Yep. Um, and if you're at Burning Man, take it all night long. That's fine. Right? A [00:38:10] hundred percent. Okay. Do you go to Burning Man?
No. No, but I mean, I have a [00:38:15] lot of friends that did. I mean, you're in logistics. You guys are too, like straight laced to go to Burning Man, right? [00:38:20] Not me. Even in Dripping Springs, man, I've always had the free flag up, man. [00:38:25] I'm just, I'm just giving you a hard time. I'll be going again this year. I think this will be my 12th year.
[00:38:30] Really? Yeah. Wow. What's your, like, what do you take to barter? What do you guys do? You guys do, or [00:38:35] For a while, I built an art car. It was like 50 grand and it was [00:38:40] a, a giant stick of grass fed butter. Okay. With a coffee cup from Disneyland that [00:38:45] spun around on top. No branding or anything like that. Yeah. And we'd give away 5,000 cups of [00:38:50] unbranded coffee blended with butter and MCT.
Cool. Because in the middle of the night when [00:38:55] you're on substances and your mitochondria are just punched in the face. Yeah. People drink a little of that and they're like, I got my. [00:39:00] I got my trip back and Right. They're just so much happier. Did that for a few years. But the [00:39:05] Department of Mutant Vehicles is, I know.
They, they were very picky and I'm just like, I can't, like, [00:39:10] I, it was costing so much money and so much time. Like I had a whole team, me and other people, like all the time, we're [00:39:15] driving and fixing and it's finally we quit doing that. So now we just have a, a station area, like come and get [00:39:20] really good coffee and it's free.
People find you. Yeah. They, they find me cool. [00:39:25] That's cool. I like that. It's, it's fun. And it's one of those things where burning Man by its [00:39:30] nature, it has no branding. Like I, I've, right. I don't, you know, people might know it's me. They [00:39:35] might not like, here's a really good coffee, have some, but we don't put stickers on any of that crap because it's not a [00:39:40] commercial thing.
No. That would turn, that would be a turn off. Yeah. How do you help people out? Is what it's about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And [00:39:45] you know, I, uh, I appreciate you coming out and I appreciate you offering [00:39:50] listeners a, a good discount on it. Guys, of course, get mt.com. Use code. Dave. Seems like code. Dave [00:39:55] works in lots of places by, by design, so, right.
Um, yeah. This is one of those things [00:40:00] where easy to do don't to swallow pills and it's got saffron in it, which [00:40:05] is. A critically important ingredient and a bunch of other good stuff. Yeah. So [00:40:10] like the way I would say with any of the biohacks that I try it and [00:40:15] if it works, keep doing it. If it doesn't work, stop doing it.
Right. You don't have to believe something works if [00:40:20] in fact that's really toxic. Yeah. Just test it out. Is your HRV go up? You know, do you feel better? And so
Jeff: [00:40:25] you win. And one of the, one of the things that was important to us when we built it. Was that you could [00:40:30] feel it. Mm-hmm. You know, we wanted something.
There's so many supplements out there with merit. Yeah. [00:40:35] That you don't feel right. Yep. You know? So we wanted to sort of take an opposite tact and [00:40:40] say, I want people to feel this. Mm-hmm. I want them to actually feel good and be like, man, [00:40:45] yes, this is good for me and I feel this good. I'm in. That was the goal.
[00:40:50] So absolutely try it, give it seven days, give it 30 days. [00:40:55] And, but you should feel it day one, right? I mean, some of the accumulating benefits over time, but [00:41:00] day one, you should feel a little bit of a lift and, and feel better. [00:41:05] And if you, if you do, then make it part of your habit. Uh, I have a [00:41:10] question for you.
Sure. I. What do you keep the rooms at when you sleep? Temperature wise? [00:41:15] 68.
Dave: Yeah. Yeah. And I also have, uh, eight sleep on my bed that [00:41:20] makes the mattress about seven degrees cooler than that when I'm asleep [00:41:25] and when I'm going to sleep, it's about two degrees cooler, but it'll manipulate [00:41:30] the temperature based on my sleep state, so Right.
I think last night there was 28 [00:41:35] adjustments in the temperature and it gave me about 12% more REM sleep. Amazing. [00:41:40] What is, that's just like a mattress cover, by the way, guys. Probably use Code Dave on eight sleep.com. It [00:41:45] wouldn't surprise me like, like it's been a couple years since I talked to start plugging it in everywhere.
Well, [00:41:50] I've been doing, uh. I sleep hacking track my sleep for 17 years. Yeah. And it's, [00:41:55] it's like dim red lights. I, if there are brighter lights, I use the true dark [00:42:00] glasses for sleep. Yep. My air is at 68, which, and there's studies between 65 and [00:42:05] 68 Fahrenheit. Yeah. Different studies, conflict. But I have a girlfriend, so [00:42:10] 68 'cause she gets cold and then the mattress control is [00:42:15] amazing.
The very first mattress chiller launched on the show like 11 years ago. [00:42:20] Okay. And eight sleep. I like it because when my aura ring is out of [00:42:25] charge like it is right now eight sleep also gives you a sleep score just built into the mattress. Oh, very cool. So [00:42:30] that, that's why I use that one. Okay. And if you do those things and you don't eat [00:42:35] after the sun goes down, like you'll probably get a good night's sleep.
It's kinda amazing. Right.
Jeff: Imagine that. [00:42:40] Cool. I love it. Okay. This is great, man. I, I'm, I've long. [00:42:45] We do 68. We, we do everything you just articulated. But I don't have a mattress chiller yet. [00:42:50] Worth it. I'm gonna get one. Yeah.
Dave: And if, if you want just the full masterclass, that's free. [00:42:55] Sleep with dave.com.
Jeff: Okay.
Dave: That, that is by far the best URL of my entire life. [00:43:00] Uh, but it's, yeah. I was gonna say, it sounds very provocative. It's like everything I know about sleep, it is [00:43:05] not my OnlyFans page. It is. It is just like, here's Dave's sleep class. I love that. [00:43:10] Nice. All right guys. We'll see you on the next episode. [00:43:15] See you next time on the Human Upgrade [00:43:20] Podcast.