Dave: [00:00:00] Nayan, you're one of my favorite people to interview about [00:00:05] the weird biohacking topic of transdermal delivery systems. [00:00:10] And what that means for listeners, there are different ways of [00:00:15] bringing compounds in through your skin, and some of them are even more effective than eating it or injecting it. [00:00:20] What are the big three types of transdermal delivery, and what do you do that's different?[00:00:25]
Nayan: So the transfer of deliveries, I mean, there's literally two ways to get into your [00:00:30] system. One is passive diffusion. So you make something in an oil [00:00:35] based systems, a liposome based system, which is lipid soluble and gets through [00:00:40] into your skin, into the fatty tissues and all the cholesterols, everything [00:00:45] under your skin.
And it goes passive diffusion. And this is where [00:00:50] 99. 999 percent of all the medications are in the. In the [00:00:55] marketplace today,
Dave: of course, so there's mixed with fat droplets and then you smeared on the fat soaks in like lotion. [00:01:00] Exactly.
Nayan: And of course you can enhance the diffusion by putting a [00:01:05] patch on there or certain wrap the whole thing or whatever.
So make it make it more [00:01:10] bioavailable or faster penetration. And then we discovered a new way of [00:01:15] delivering this for the very first time, which is bypassing all the fat layer, putting into a [00:01:20] a water based system, which is using sugar technology that goes to the water channels [00:01:25] of your skin, which is unheard of.
And that is, it has no barriers whatsoever and [00:01:30] just goes straight through the channels into your body instantaneously. There's no passive [00:01:35] diffusion. It's active transport of the products through the channels. [00:01:40] Well, it does take like one minute, right? It takes about a minute, [00:01:45] yes to rub it in. But, uh, the results are coming in within [00:01:50] seconds, right?
So, for example, if you have a sunburn, you just spray it on. Even before you start rubbing it in, it [00:01:55] starts Pain starts getting away immediately.
Dave: And you can imagine the [00:02:00] difference if you get something that kind of soaks in over time with oil [00:02:05] versus a sudden pulse of something. It's going to have different biological effects, and this is why the [00:02:10] delivery system of a supplement can make all the difference.
It's kind of like [00:02:15] exercise. Like, did you do a sprint or a jog? You could use the same number of calories, but the [00:02:20] effect on the body is very different. So, I'm a fan of rapid raising of levels for most [00:02:25] things. And your favorite molecule is glutathione for this. So, why [00:02:30] glutathione?
Nayan: Well, you know why. Of course you know why, you're the father of glutathione.[00:02:35]
I've read a couple books
Dave: about it, but I want you to tell me, because you're, you know, a scientist. Yeah. [00:02:40] Um, you know, a pharmacist, and you have a different take on it. It's kind of similar, but let's get [00:02:45] into the guts of glutathione. So my, my thing
Nayan: was, you know, when I first, you know, [00:02:50] from a pharmacy school.
I was in the top two pharmacy school in the country. [00:02:55] Graduating from there, you know, you think you're invincible, you know, you're shit and you know, you're ready to conquer the [00:03:00] world and the world tells you, no, your place in this business is to you. [00:03:05] All you can do is manage people's medication problem.
You're not going to solve any problems. [00:03:10] And you go, wait a second. I'm here to manage people's problem for the rest of my life. Instead [00:03:15] of solving problems and say, yep, that's what you're going to do. And if you can, if you even mentioned the [00:03:20] word cure, you'll be out of business. We'll, we'll strip your license away.
You cannot practice pharmacy anymore. [00:03:25] And so, yeah, it was, it was, it was a, it was a humble beginning. It's a sad, [00:03:30] sad story, but that's how we would been trained to, to do, deal with the problems. And all [00:03:35] of a sudden I come out, I said, okay. I, I said, okay, I'll do some compounding. I'll, I'll do [00:03:40] some, something weird within, within the same industry, but a little bit different.
So I started doing compounding [00:03:45] and compound medications. And I started attracting all kinds of clientele from all over the country who [00:03:50] wanted to work with me. And the one thing that told me was, guess what? Nayan, do you have [00:03:55] something for anti aging? This is, keep in mind, this was 27 years ago. Do you have something for anti aging?[00:04:00]
And it goes, what the hell is anti aging at that time, right? Today it's called [00:04:05] longevity medicine and biohacking. There's all these different terms that we have. But at that time it was called anti [00:04:10] aging. And it goes, I don't know what to do with it. And so somebody came to me. I said, [00:04:15] Hey, the best thing that you can do for anti aging was either vitamin C or [00:04:20] glutathione.
And I looked at the research. I said, we don't produce vitamin C, so it has to be [00:04:25] glutathione. And they asked me to work on liposome technology of glutathione back in [00:04:30] 1999. And so I said, okay, I'll make it did not work for all my patients quite effectively. [00:04:35] It worked. I mean, it did work, but it's just not, I didn't get a hundred percent results.
And so it's like, it's [00:04:40] this, this is a good treatment, but it's not. effective enough for me. So I started making [00:04:45] intravenous form of glutathione, IV forms of glutathione. I said, Oh, this, if anything, anything can solve this [00:04:50] problem would be IV forms of glutathione. And then it quickly, even that did not work.[00:04:55]
What I realized at that point is that getting something inside your [00:05:00] body was only one piece of the puzzle. The second piece of [00:05:05] the puzzle is how do I get inside your cells? Because [00:05:10] getting inside your body is a physical barrier. So your skin, your stomach, your [00:05:15] anything that you can think about it, is a physical barrier that you have to bypass that.
Once you get [00:05:20] the physical barrier, because that's when people are like, Oh, I have nanotechnology. [00:05:25] So you got it inside your body. Now what? How do you get it inside yourself? That was the [00:05:30] bigger problem that I wanted to solve that issue and there was nothing in the marketplace at that time [00:05:35] that can solve that issue.
So again, there's my research and development of [00:05:40] what can I do with the molecule glutathione.
Dave: So what I think about is you can [00:05:45] have glutathione, you get an IV and I've had lots of them and they help. It's going to help the liver [00:05:50] mostly, but it's not going to get from the blood into the cells. And you can do [00:05:55] oral forms of glutathione like liposomal forms.
And you might get some of it past the [00:06:00] gut barrier, which is what liposomes are for. But again, how much of it actually goes into cells, [00:06:05] not that much according to your research. And when you're using these water channels, you're raising [00:06:10] levels inside the cells more than an IV. And just by spraying it on the skin, which [00:06:15] is kind of a little bit less painful and expensive.
What I want to understand is, [00:06:20] what is the difference in outcome for people when they get glutathione [00:06:25] inside their cells versus floating around inside their blood? So, the thing is,
Nayan: to [00:06:30] answer the question, I had to figure out, where is the glutathione going in the first place? [00:06:35] Because we knew glutathione, if it's endogenously produced glutathione, that means the [00:06:40] body produces it internally, it can go everywhere.
But when you take [00:06:45] exogenous glutathione, it stays inside your body and never causes a blood brain barrier. [00:06:50] It never gets into your brain. So if an endogenous production of glutathione can cross [00:06:55] the blood brain barrier, then my, my, my, my test would be if I use my [00:07:00] product, if it gets into your brain, my job is done, right?
[00:07:05] And so of course, we work with a couple of neurosurgeons and they have one, one guy's [00:07:10] a technology that actually measures brain glutathione levels with the MR [00:07:15] spectrometer. Oh, wow, no blood test. That's cool. Put your scanner on [00:07:20] and I can tell you what the glutathione is in your brain And so he applied the glutathione and [00:07:25] boom He started seeing hot spots in the brain.
He goes, holy shit [00:07:30] This is crazy. Now I knew that the something was happening. Now, of course, this [00:07:35] requires further studies of does it going to help with any brain functions? In fact, I was talking to one of the [00:07:40] main brain expert Dr Palmer this morning about Parkinson's. I [00:07:45] said, it's The disease is not the condition.
What got you there is what my [00:07:50] concern is. And so by having gluathione on board, I wanted to see if I can [00:07:55] stop the oxidative stress. And so getting inside the body, measuring those levels in the [00:08:00] brain, we knew this was happening. Now, the, the question that you asked is how does it core it [00:08:05] into outcomes, into results?
And is it better than the IVs, better than liposome, better than anything else? [00:08:10] So let me just tell you, IVs, liposome, all capsules, they all work. [00:08:15] They will all raise your levels. If you're young, if you're like 30, 35, 40 up to, [00:08:20] you're fine. You can raise your levels all day long. No questions asked. Once you get to [00:08:25] over 40, your body's ability to take cysteine [00:08:30] combined with the two enzymes and some two ATP molecules, your ability [00:08:35] to increase glutathione levels starts diminishing starting at the age of 40.
So, you need something to over, [00:08:40] overcome that, that gap so that your body can, have, uh, enough glutathione [00:08:45] levels. So that's why we had to find a way to bypass all those barriers. [00:08:50] Your skin is a physical barrier. Your cell is a chemical barrier. Bypass all those things, get [00:08:55] into the system so your body can use it up.
And the outcomes are [00:09:00] generally better for people that are not able to absorb glutathione at all. And the results are [00:09:05] literally less
Dave: than two weeks. And you're saying that When you're looking directly at [00:09:10] glutathione in the brain on an MRI, when you take the oral wellness stuff you made [00:09:15] and you spray it on the skin, it enters through water channels, you see it in the brain, but [00:09:20] you don't see the oral liposomes.
So the thing is that,
Nayan: uh, the liposomes and the [00:09:25] IVs, the, the budget study's done. And what happens is there's a delayed reaction. [00:09:30] And the reason it's a delayed reaction is because IVs, liposomes, [00:09:35] capsules, all the products, the body, it enters the body, but the [00:09:40] body, what it does, it breaks it down, either in the bladder, in the stomach, in the intestines, wherever, it breaks [00:09:45] it down into cysteine molecule, cysteine gets reabsorbed, [00:09:50] and like in IVs, 90 minutes later, you see a spike of gluathione levels because the cysteine [00:09:55] is getting used up in the mitochondria to produce your own gluathione.
In terms of the liposome, [00:10:00] It takes maybe anywhere from 2 to 6 hours to get into the bloodstream because [00:10:05] it's getting into, cysteine is getting reabsorbed and using that to produce your own chlorothione. [00:10:10] That chlorothione will cross the blood brain barrier and improve those levels for you. [00:10:15] Yes, there's a delayed reaction though.
Dave: Okay. And does the level go as high with [00:10:20] loposomes versus aura?
Nayan: I have not seen that data, but with the [00:10:25] liposome, the half life is a little bit better than the oral capsules so I would, I would, [00:10:30] it has to do with the bioavailability of the cysteine that is [00:10:35] bypassing the gut barrier, I believe so, that's the reason why we have a little bit more [00:10:40] bioavailable with liposome than just taking oral capsules.
Dave: And if you want to get it in specific cells, [00:10:45] like on your face. Or around an injury or some area like that, you [00:10:50] spray it on and are you going to see more of your form of glutathione in that part of the [00:10:55] body or does it just go in systemically?
Nayan: So yes, it depends, right? [00:11:00] If you apply, let's say to an area where it's highly inflamed area, the need for, there's a [00:11:05] lot of oxidative stress in that area.
So your body gets used up the glutathione right away in that area. [00:11:10] So it will, it will help that area for sure. But all the excess will get [00:11:15] all over the body. And so, yeah, so for me, I want to make sure that if there, [00:11:20] if you apply it on the injured site to sometimes apply a little bit more than [00:11:25] what you need, because it's going to get used up at the site of application more.
Dave: Uh, and it, it's kind of [00:11:30] cool that one little spray, I think it's about two sprays equals an [00:11:35] IV or more levels inside your cells. And I, I want to say people, money and time, I think [00:11:40] that's, that's a big thing. It's a lot of money and a lot of time to drive to a doctor and get an IV. And [00:11:45] this is functionally at least as good, as far as I can tell.
Nayan: Functionally for sure. [00:11:50] And plus Dave, you know, you have recommended so many great solutions for people [00:11:55] and those are not cheap. I have, I have all your solutions that you [00:12:00] recommend in my house and they're not cheap, I know they're not cheap. And so wherever you can save money, I, Hey, [00:12:05] I want to save money for people.
Dave: If you're listening to this going, you know, biohacking is so expensive. The biggest, most [00:12:10] impactful things like getting sun in the morning, learning how to sleep, black hair, that stuff is free. And there's a bunch [00:12:15] of low cost stuff I talk about, and it's my job to talk about all of the stuff that works at [00:12:20] different price points, but very few humans do all of that, because you don't need [00:12:25] to.
You find the problem you have, you find the solution that matches, and I'd carry the good stuff. And [00:12:30] so, uh, this is the good stuff, as far as I can tell. But let me ask you this, we didn't arrange ahead [00:12:35] of time, is there a discount code for listeners? Yes. I, I believe it's the,
Nayan: [00:12:40] Dave 10 is what we give out to everybody.
Dave: Okay. Cool. So there you go [00:12:45] guys. It's a u r o wellness. com and the code [00:12:50] is Dave 10. And I don't actually, I even have that on my notes. Like, like this, this isn't about [00:12:55] selling stuff. It's about educating people about delivery systems for [00:13:00] glutathione and why you would care about glutathione. And one thing that I'm really curious about.[00:13:05]
As we know that it's an antioxidant and it works inside the cells, but [00:13:10] there's evidence that it might rewire mitochondria or it might act as a signaling [00:13:15] molecule. So what do we know now about glutathione that we didn't know before?
Nayan: So what I'm finding out [00:13:20] lately about glutathione is that, yes, we are able to release oxytocin stress down.
And [00:13:25] so the number one thing that we need to do, we need to realize that glutathione is not this [00:13:30] magic cure that people thought that it was going to do. cure all problems. But what it [00:13:35] does really, really good is that it takes away the number one problem that we [00:13:40] have to deal with, which is oxidative stress.
Once that is taken away from it, it [00:13:45] allows the body to start working on healing the other parts of your body. So [00:13:50] Gluta may not have a direct impact on every single organ, every single cells in [00:13:55] your body. But it has, it has a massive indirect effect because it's allowing [00:14:00] the body to start working on rejuvenate and regenerating new [00:14:05] cells for you, but getting rid of the oxidative stress.
Resistance is good. [00:14:10] Oxidative stress is not. So I want you to feel about resistance and do whatever it takes, [00:14:15] red light therapies, cold plungings, and all the therapies that you recommended. Those are all great things to [00:14:20] do. Resistance is good for you, but oxidative stress is not. And so my job is to [00:14:25] get rid of oxidative stress.
And by doing so, keep in mind, mitochondria, number one [00:14:30] problem is oxidative stress. That's why we have less and less mitochondria as we age, uh, because oxidative [00:14:35] stress is killing those mitochondria. Once we get rid of the oxidative stress down. we should [00:14:40] see an increase in the mitochondria function and the number of mitochondria.
Dave: So we're actually [00:14:45] driving your body to make new mitochondria or mitogenesis, which is really [00:14:50] important. It's kind of the holy grail for longevity. And I've used weird SARMs and [00:14:55] pharmaceuticals banned by the International Olympic Committee because they work and [00:15:00] there are ways to do it and fasting and certain kinds of exercise, but those are hard.
And [00:15:05] increasing glutathione, or pulsing it, if that can cause your body to say, Alright, I have enough capacity to [00:15:10] make more mitochondria, That's like a permanent upgrade. And I think that drives longevity and [00:15:15] resilience and mental power for sure. That, that's a big deal. So if it's such a big [00:15:20] deal, why has big pharma mostly ignored Glothion?
Nayan: Well the thing [00:15:25] is, they did not ignore the Glothion. They, they were trying, they were trying for a [00:15:30] long time. There's numerous pharmaceutical companies that I know of. [00:15:35] From here and Europe and everywhere else they have applied to every agencies in the world [00:15:40] to get glutathione product approved by the agencies like FDA Europe has their [00:15:45] own, EU has their own things, Japan has its own thing and every single clinical [00:15:50] trial for glutathione has been not been impressive enough because as I said earlier [00:15:55] Getting inside your body was the easy part Getting inside your cell was the most difficult part.[00:16:00]
As a peptide tripeptide, you cannot get inside your cell. The body has to produce [00:16:05] endogenously. So with this technology that we have developed that gets inside your cells using a dextrin [00:16:10] technology with the sugar molecules, it's, it's changing the whole world. [00:16:15] The downside is I can only work with small peptides, like three, four, five [00:16:20] aminos to change your peptides.
That's it.
Dave: Well, at least you're getting some good stuff in [00:16:25] because I know the power of raising glutathione. My levels were very low when I had toxic mold. Anyone [00:16:30] with chronic fatigue, long COVID, mold, mouse cell [00:16:35] activation, glutathione is a part of the fix. It just makes everything work better. And most of [00:16:40] us still think, Oh, it helps my liver.
It stops Tylenol and alcohol from poisoning the liver. All that's true, [00:16:45] but there's a whole body cellular thing, especially in the brain that is at least as [00:16:50] important. So, I, I like that we're doing this, I've been using it for 20 years, [00:16:55] but what happens when high performers stop using glutathione? If I've been [00:17:00] using it, you know, several times a week, or even daily for a month or two, and then I just go cold turkey off of [00:17:05] it, is something bad gonna happen?
Nayan: No, it's not. And what you're experiencing is something that I [00:17:10] did myself as well, because I've been using for, for so many years now that I took a break. I took [00:17:15] a, you know what? I went from twice a day application to just to do once a day application [00:17:20] only. And then I was at a conference lately and I say, the guy goes, [00:17:25] Oh, let's, let me check you all the metabolomics.
I want to check your oxy stress markers. I will [00:17:30] check everything for you. And so I said, okay, fine, sell me a kit. So he sold me a [00:17:35] kit of it. I did my testing and I sent the results out. This is what happened. Honesty got true. This is [00:17:40] exactly what happened. My glutathione levels were low and it goes, this, [00:17:45] this test is garbage.
This is, this cannot be, my levels are not going to be low. I [00:17:50] know for a fact, right. And he goes, please don't, do not blame the mass spec. You [00:17:55] know, the machines only tells me what's inside the blood. So what is that you're not [00:18:00] doing? So what I found out was, here's the thing. My glutton was getting absorbed was [00:18:05] everything was getting utilized.
So I saw all my markers, my glutamate, and my [00:18:10] glycine. All those markers were up. That means my me, my glutten was getting to, the cells were getting used up. [00:18:15] My oxygen stress markers were, were all time low. My age markers were, were all time [00:18:20] lows. That means I was, I was really s. Not stopped aging, but it was very, [00:18:25] very slow pace of aging.
So everything was great except for my glutathione levels. And [00:18:30] the guy said the same thing. I said, here's your answer. You know, your product more than anybody else. [00:18:35] Why can't you use it twice a day yourself instead of just using once a day, because your levels are still low. [00:18:40] So even though my levels were low to begin, because I measured 24 hours later after my last application.[00:18:45]
So my levels of glutathione were low, but all my markers were in best condition.
Dave: Okay. [00:18:50] It's kind of like ketones. When people first go on a keto diet, they're like, Oh, yeah, man, bro. I'm, [00:18:55] I'm keto and my ketone levels are four. I'm better than you because yours are only [00:19:00] three. And meanwhile, people who actually understand cyclical keto diets are like, yeah, my [00:19:05] levels are 1, 1.
5, because my body's using the ketones. It'd be kind of like [00:19:10] diabetics bragging about their blood sugar levels, like, mine's higher than yours. If it's in your blood, it means you didn't [00:19:15] use it. That's right. And that's not a good thing. And so it's one of those things you have to have the [00:19:20] systems biology view and then you realize, okay, so it's going into the cells and then you've got the brain studies that [00:19:25] back it up.
And people don't stop making glutathione when they stop taking [00:19:30] it. There isn't like a suppression from taking glutathione.
Nayan: So this, this is a very common question [00:19:35] I get asked from all kinds of doctors as well, because they don't understand the negative [00:19:40] feedback mechanism. because we have been trained that everything that you do from exogenous sources [00:19:45] that your body will start shutting down its own production, which is true for all the [00:19:50] endocrine system hormones, hormones, steroids, pathways, testosterone, estrogen, [00:19:55] progesterone, all those things.
Yes, it's true because there is a signal that coming from the [00:20:00] pituitary telling your body to stop production because you have excess of it. When it comes [00:20:05] to peptide production, protein production, there is no negative feedback, [00:20:10] so to speak, because the, the building blocks are amino acids, [00:20:15] energy, ATP, and NAD.
So that, that engine, you [00:20:20] can make Glutathione, you can make GHK, you can make tissues, you can make muscles, you can make organ [00:20:25] parts, you can make all kinds of things. If you, if you have enough of the glutathione, then [00:20:30] the body will use the same building blocks to make something else. And so there's no [00:20:35] negative feedback, so to speak, but the thing is the body is using the energy and the, and the, [00:20:40] and the building blocks to make other things.
So, Your glutathione levels are okay, but [00:20:45] the rest of the body starts functioning better.
Dave: That makes so much sense. And I'm, [00:20:50] I'm kind of wondering, are you willing to say that glutathione could change [00:20:55] emotional resilience? I just wrote a big book on emotional resilience, you know, heavily [00:21:00] meditated. And I feel like it does, but do you have evidence that it does?
So [00:21:05]
Nayan: this is the question, as I said, I work with a bunch of neurosurgeons. I work with psychiatrists [00:21:10] and what we are noticing is that oxidative stress is [00:21:15] absolutely a driving force on people's mental health. It is, [00:21:20] and without that oxygen stress, people are able to think better, they're [00:21:25] able to comprehend better, they're able to, they're able to strategize their emotional [00:21:30] responses to questions all, all the time.
And so, yes, it's not an overnight process, [00:21:35] but over a month or month and a half, when the oxygen stress level starts reducing in [00:21:40] your brain, keep in mind your brain is just 2 percent of your body weight, but yet it [00:21:45] consumes 20 percent of all oxygen you breathe in. And if you breathe less oxygen, [00:21:50] guess what?
The brain gets the first dibs before the body gets it. So brain has a high amount of [00:21:55] stress regardless. And so reducing stress down gives you a very good [00:22:00] chance. So anyways, long story short, the doctors are now using it for [00:22:05] multiple reasons to. Reduce oxygen stress down and getting it, giving them the chance to [00:22:10] respond better to stressors that comes into life instead of reverting back to medications like [00:22:15] antidepressants, antipsychotics, and things like that.
So that is already working. We are working with doctors all [00:22:20] over the country for that.
Dave: Do you think we're going to have a, a time where we have like a [00:22:25] glutathione pump or something like you'd have an insulin pump or some kind of smart wearable that sprays or a [00:22:30] wellness on your skin whenever you get too inflamed?
Nayan: Oh my God, uh, [00:22:35] you know, you always ask me a question that just brings this [00:22:40] just triggers my brain. I have no more hair left Dave to think about more than what I want to think about. [00:22:45] So, but you know what? It's, I will, I want to be on the other side. I [00:22:50] want to be on the other side where our need for gluten is reduced so much.
[00:22:55] That we don't need to be using it on a daily basis. If I can get to people to change the [00:23:00] behavior to stop consuming so much glutathione, that means don't drink alcohol, [00:23:05] stay away from pollutions and toxic chemicals as much as possible, [00:23:10] have drink coffees that is completely mold free and metal free and things like that.
And if that's, that's [00:23:15] a behavior you want or, or do whatever it takes to reduce the expenses of gluathide. Because if you [00:23:20] didn't do that, the need reduces so much, so little that you, that you will need to have a [00:23:25] pump.
Dave: I always say that, that aging is death by a thousand cuts. There isn't a [00:23:30] single cause of aging.
There are seven big pillars, but it's like, why does your car wear out? Okay. [00:23:35] Well, it's more than one thing and that's normal. So take less [00:23:40] cuts is a really good strategy. And then when you do take them, have something that helps your body [00:23:45] to be resilient and heal them better. And glutathione is, it's at the core of biohacking has been [00:23:50] since probably my third blog post was about glutathione because it's that fundamental.
I knew it [00:23:55] was fundamental though, because I could feel glutathione. I would take it and like, Oh, my [00:24:00] brain works again. Yeah. Why do some people feel glutathione right away and some people don't? And this, [00:24:05] again, this
Nayan: all depends on, uh, your, your [00:24:10] needs. When people, like today we are finding out there's so many people have gene mutations where they cannot synthesize [00:24:15] glutathione or the needs for glutathione are extremely, extremely high.
Those are the people they feel that really [00:24:20] infects right, right away. Keep in mind, majority of the people [00:24:25] don't have this problem. The young people, they don't have this problem. So they may not feel the [00:24:30] effects right, right away. But over time they do for the same effect [00:24:35] anyway. So now that we're finding out with all these gene mutations, that the people that have those, [00:24:40] I can pinpoint down, use a gluathod and literally within 15 minutes, they [00:24:45] are, they're telling me, I said, Oh, I'm buying this product.
What, what the heck is this? My mind is opened up or I feel [00:24:50] better. My pain went away, whatever, right? So there are a few people that experienced right away. The rest [00:24:55] are still normal.
Dave: Is there a daily circadian curve for glutathione? The [00:25:00] best time of the day to take it, when is it naturally high or low?
Nayan: It's need based, right? [00:25:05] Our needs for glutathione are extremely high after we eat. Because [00:25:10] we are, or after you take medications, because We are, we're consuming a lot of foreign objects [00:25:15] that you bought, that you live as a detoxify them. And it's the conjugation is one of the major [00:25:20] pathways major pathways are activated by glutathione.
So for that purpose, we did a lot of [00:25:25] glutathione. So it's all need based. If your oxygen stress is high during, uh, [00:25:30] during the morning, then you may need more within the morning, but usually during the afternoon time. [00:25:35] Evening time, you need more glutathione as well and so there's no circuit rhythm, so to [00:25:40] speak like, for example, if you drink alcohol in the morning, your needs of glutathione is very high in the morning.[00:25:45]
Dave: If you work out and you take antioxidants like vitamin E, it reduces your [00:25:50] body's ability to grow after the exercise. Does glutathione suppress [00:25:55] muscle from exercising?
Nayan: No, it does not. And this is a great question [00:26:00] because that's what I thought. So first that I don't want to suppress people's antioxidant [00:26:05] benefits because exercise is a resistance type training and I need those resistance [00:26:10] increasing so that people can start building the muscle mass and all those things.
But then when I started [00:26:15] working with A lot of professional athletes from NFL to NBA to MLB and [00:26:20] even NHL now, I, I saw teams, uh, customers of ours too. And what I'm finding [00:26:25] out that having Glutide on board. They're able to exercise even [00:26:30] stronger, better, faster without getting the muscle pain or without getting a lot of lactic acid [00:26:35] buildup.
And so, granted I'm working with younger kids, like under the age of 30, [00:26:40] but they are able, they can feel the effect of better exercise tolerance when they have glutathione [00:26:45] on board versus when they do not have that.
Dave: There's something else really important and I've [00:26:50] spoken with Nick Foles about this and privately with some MMA fighters.
Any sport [00:26:55] you're in, hockey players, MMA fighters. If you're going to hit your head, or have a likely chance of hitting your head, [00:27:00] all the damage comes from reactive oxygen species right after you hit your head. [00:27:05] So, I've gone through strategies to reduce ROS so that you [00:27:10] don't get a brain injury even if you hit your head, or if you do get one, it's much smaller.[00:27:15]
Does glutathione belong in that stack? So, if your levels are high before you get hit in the head and [00:27:20] you'll get less damage?
Nayan: Oh, absolutely. That, that is a hundred percent. So as I said [00:27:25] earlier, we do work with NFL neurosurgeons directly for TBIs [00:27:30] post recoveries, but we have worked with patients that are after concussion come that happens.
I actually, I'm [00:27:35] working with two NFL players right now that 14 years of concussions and now they're coming to us. All [00:27:40] right. So it's kind of late in the game because now they are on the verge of getting Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, [00:27:45] all kinds of diseases of the later stages. And, but the thing is, if I can get them early and [00:27:50] prevent that problem, It'll be a game changer.
So that's what the study was done about the [00:27:55] brain, uh, mapping studies.
Dave: So if you imagine, okay, you're a pro ball [00:28:00] player. So you get an IV of glutathione before every game. That's a huge commitment of time and money and [00:28:05] effort. Or you're in the locker room and you take what four or five sprays before you put on your [00:28:10] uniform, you got in your play, your levels are higher.
If you do get hit in the head or you had a soccer ball [00:28:15] or take a knee to wherever. your odds of getting a brain injury go down? Absolutely. [00:28:20] Absolutely. Wow. Okay. What should I stack when I'm using your [00:28:25] glutathione? So I'm going to spray oral glutathione on my body. It's going to regulate or upregulate the amount of [00:28:30] glutathione inside my cells.
Should I be taking other antioxidants, other [00:28:35] peptides? What goes with it? So my
Nayan: number one drug of choice with [00:28:40] glutathione is something like vitamin C, vitamin E, CoQ10. And the reason is [00:28:45] because All the glutathione, if the oxygen stress is high, the glutathione is going [00:28:50] to become into the redox, uh, which is oxidized glutathione, which is GSSG molecule, which is [00:28:55] glutathione disulfides, and that glutathione molecule is stable, but it's oxidized.[00:29:00]
And to revert back to glutathione, you know, either the body has to produce [00:29:05] enzymes like glutathione peroxidase enzymes, or you can, the cheapest way to do it is you take some [00:29:10] vitamin C or vitamin E or CoQ10 and it will revive it back to normal. [00:29:15] And so for me is I want to have a reduced amount of glutathione in my body all the time.
So having [00:29:20] something like this type of products along with the glutathione will ensure that I have the [00:29:25] highest amount of reduced glutathione inside my body.
Dave: I. I have a [00:29:30] suggestion, uh, for people. I've been very [00:29:35] open about using pharmaceutical nicotine. As a performance enhancer for [00:29:40] cognitively and physically for more than a decade.
And you see a lot of people talking about like, finally, we're all [00:29:45] catching up to this. After I interviewed a professor from Vanderbilt University who's, [00:29:50] he said pharmaceutical nicotine, not smoking, can reverse or [00:29:55] prevent early onset Alzheimer's disease. And since 1986, there's been a bunch of [00:30:00] papers, and again, don't smoke, don't vape, don't chew.
This is about using either a spray or a [00:30:05] gum or a patch, um, or a lozenge. And, uh, that's it. low doses. But even [00:30:10] then, it mildly increases reactive oxygen species in your neurons, which isn't [00:30:15] necessarily a bad thing because that can be a hormetic signal. But if you're using it every [00:30:20] day the way I do, having a little bit of extra glutathione in your body, [00:30:25] especially in your liver is a really good idea as well as in your brain.
So I think [00:30:30] nicotine and glutathione pair really nicely. And so I'm willing to spray some glutathione [00:30:35] on every day or two. It's pretty easy to do.
Nayan: So that I have heard of it before. I have not tried it [00:30:40] myself personally. I know I've seen you. Spray the, I think the gum or the, whatever you take [00:30:45] every time with the nicotine, I've seen you plenty of times and I always question myself.
And if you think [00:30:50] about it, nicotine was used to prevent long COVID.
Dave: It
Nayan: was used for, [00:30:55] yeah, for all the, during the COVID time, this was a big deal. We were, we were using the pharmacy all the time, [00:31:00] nicotine.
Dave: It has benefits and smoking is not good for you. And most people just hear [00:31:05] nicotine and then they hear smoking and they're just not the same.
So I've been [00:31:10] using a very small dose of it. Every one of my books after, I [00:31:15] think, after the Bulletproof Diet was always caffeine and a low dose of nicotine because it's [00:31:20] such a powerful nootropic. And if I'm using any kind of cognitive enhancer, and I use them all, [00:31:25] then I would want extra glutathione buffering inside my [00:31:30] brain and inside the rest of my cells.
Because I'm increasing my metabolic activity, especially [00:31:35] my neurons, because I'm jacking up my brain, which means more mitochondrial demand, which means [00:31:40] more oxidative byproducts, which means my glutathione demands are going to be higher than the average human [00:31:45] being, because I'm getting more done. So, that means I want to put [00:31:50] glutathione into my system regularly, because I'm planning to live a very long time.
It's like, if you're going to drive a car really fast, [00:31:55] you need to have better lubricant. You need to have better fuel, better [00:32:00] tires. So if you're a biohacker, I think there's a case that says anything [00:32:05] that speeds up your nervous system should be paired with glutathione because it's going to [00:32:10] protect your nervous system from the downside of basically having exhaust coming out of your cells.
Am I [00:32:15] on to something in that way of
Nayan: thinking? You are 110 percent correct. By the way, I've seen your [00:32:20] nutritional cupboard with like a couple hundred supplements in there, which is [00:32:25] amazing. All arranged by alphabetical order. I was shocked when I saw that for the first time, so, [00:32:30] but anyways, the, what you just said right now is absolutely instrumental [00:32:35] because Everything that we know about glutathione, it's only stopping the oxidative stress [00:32:40] down, but your body is rejuvenating, regenerating new cells [00:32:45] until the day you die.
I don't care if you're 150 years old, the body's trying to [00:32:50] repair every single thing. We have to be getting out of the way to do so. [00:32:55] So you can do all the stimulants and every single thing, but they will all work. [00:33:00] As long as you can reduce oxygen stress down to zero, I want to make sure that people understand their parts.
The [00:33:05] glutathione becomes a primary stack for everything else you do.
Dave: And it [00:33:10] doesn't suppress the exercise benefits the way most other antioxidants would. So there are just [00:33:15] lots of, lots of benefits to doing this as a longevity agent. And what I want to know Are there [00:33:20] changes in gene expression from increasing glutathione levels?
So that
Nayan: part I have not [00:33:25] studied yet. I, we are working with a couple of gene testing companies right now and we [00:33:30] are been recommending some after the gene, uh, after we see, after diagnosed with the gene [00:33:35] SNPs, we are recommending this product to prevention from expressing the genes [00:33:40] yet. But again, this is too premature.
It's only been a couple of years. So it's hard to say right now if [00:33:45] it's working or not working and again, I do not know what, what triggers gene [00:33:50] expression above and beyond. So, uh, the time will tell the, if this is going to work for [00:33:55] us or
Dave: not. I think we'll find some more evidence over time for that.
Do you know about [00:34:00] glutathione and sirtuins? Sirtuins are famous because of the NAD research with Dr. David Sinclair. [00:34:05] What's the interplay with glutathione?
Nayan: So, glutathione is, uh, [00:34:10] ATP and an NAD sparing molecule. I, I take note of that every day. So I've been taking it for now five or [00:34:15] six years or seven years.
I don't, I can't remember how long I've been taking that for. I have measured my [00:34:20] nitric oxide levels. They're always high. I have measured my energy levels. [00:34:25] It's always high. I measure my NAD levels. And they are higher. [00:34:30] Now, keep in mind, I don't have a baseline, but before I started taking glutathione, that's the only part I do not [00:34:35] have an answer for that yet.
But they all tell me for my age, my energy levels are [00:34:40] higher. Uh, so it is a definitely an energy sparing molecule. Now, [00:34:45] Keep in mind, your needs could be, could be very high and having any type of [00:34:50] supplementations like NMN or NR or one of those supplements is absolutely a must for you [00:34:55] guys. But by taking glutathione, it's not reducing those, those levels.
[00:35:00] In fact, it's sparing some of those molecules for you.
Dave: That's really important to understand. So if you're [00:35:05] on this, let's live to at least 180 and have a good time along the way and be happy path along with me, [00:35:10] then you want to say sirtuins are important because they help you live longer. [00:35:15] And they work when you have low stress inside yourselves, [00:35:20] low, low ROS, basically.
And if you raise the amount of [00:35:25] free radicals in your body, whether it's excessive exercise, stress, toxins, whatever, [00:35:30] it's going to inhibit sirtuin from doing its job for longevity. So [00:35:35] if you have lots of glutathione inside the cells, then you have low [00:35:40] oxidative stress, and therefore sirtuin can do its longevity job.
And that's a really big deal. [00:35:45] And my research shows that, in fact, you've said something similar to it, [00:35:50] that the pool of NAD that's available gets preserved when there's extra glutathione [00:35:55] in the cells. So you don't burn through the NAD you have, which means taking glutathione. [00:36:00] Increases available NAD inside the body, which increases your mitochondria's ability [00:36:05] to do things that give you energy and keep you young.
And there's a follow on [00:36:10] effect on cert one. Do you know about that one? No, I don't. So cert one is one of [00:36:15] the cert two ends, and when you. increase that as part of your longevity [00:36:20] practice, it induces glutamylcysteine synthetase, [00:36:25] which is an enzyme that causes your cells to make more glutathione themselves.
Yeah, [00:36:30] enzymes. And then it turns on NRF2, which is another longevity pathway, [00:36:35] which turns up your endogenous Antioxidant defense, including [00:36:40] glutathione. So it's cool. You take glutathione, it preserves NAD, it helps ser two into [00:36:45] its job, and then sirtuin helps glutathione do its job. Right. That's cool. [00:36:50]
Nayan: That is amazing.
I knew about NRF too. I did not understand about the, uh, [00:36:55] GCS, which is the enzymes or, uh, necessarily to produce glutathione.
Dave: Well, if you're [00:37:00] inflamed, none of it works. So like glutathione stops the inflammation, which allows things like [00:37:05] extra NAD. to do its jobs. Glutathione is very foundational for longevity.
[00:37:10] It's probably as important as things like vitamin dake and minerals 101, where like, [00:37:15] if you don't have enough zinc in your body, you're probably screwed. And it doesn't matter if you're taking a bunch of expensive stuff, if you don't [00:37:20] have foundational things. Glutathione is very, very low down. Have we found it in [00:37:25] bacteria and things like that?
Not that I know of. So it's more of a human [00:37:30] mammal kind of a compound, right? It's
Nayan: more like a mammal. Yes. I mean, animals have it too. It's more like a [00:37:35] mammal thing. I want to, I want to raise one more thing for everybody. I think people understand that part. [00:37:40] As much as gluten is important for us, make sure the dose matters.[00:37:45]
Because you cannot even if you have all the money in the world, [00:37:50] more is not better. And so having that, uh, having that [00:37:55] homeostasis around how much glutathione your body needs is very important because the more you [00:38:00] take, the more process, the more the body has to process to get rid of it. And so having the right [00:38:05] amount is very critical.
Can you overdose on glutathione? Well, [00:38:10] yes and no. If you take any of the forms, like IVs or oral forms or liposome forms, you cannot [00:38:15] overdose on glutathione. The topical versions that we have, you absolutely can. Because
Dave: [00:38:20] Okay, so, the oral wellness stuff is so strong, even though it's a spray, that you could overdo [00:38:25] it.
What would happen if I, like, took a bath in Oh my god. It'd be very expensive to do that, but,
Nayan: what would [00:38:30] happen? Uh, you, first of all, you would not take a bath in there.
Dave: You have to, like, [00:38:35] go to the bank a lot of times to do that. Well, not just
Nayan: that, is even a whole bottle of it? It [00:38:40] would be super toxic for you in the sense.
How toxic? Well, the thing is what's going to happen is going to [00:38:45] it's going to try and release every single thing from your body It's it's a [00:38:50] massive conjugator And so it's going to try and detox you so fast the immunological [00:38:55] response is so fast That you're going to have a herxheimer reactions. You have massive [00:39:00] headaches Extreme fatigue, you have diarrhea, stomach cramps, rashes [00:39:05] all over the body, because what the body is doing is, the body is going from oxidative stress state to reductive [00:39:10] stress state, and your body just, all the defenses goes down.
Dave: Oh, so it's [00:39:15] almost, almost as bad as kale in that. environment. Sorry guys, I had to say. Okay. [00:39:20] So, uh, how many sprays is the max of aura wellness that I could do? I [00:39:25] don't want to go down that Herxheimer path. So I have
Nayan: used personally up to 16 sprays at a [00:39:30] time, but I do it, I do it very, I know when to use that much amount [00:39:35] because I'm usually traveling a lot.
If I'm a hotel, which is moldy, I get [00:39:40] screwed. But typically between 12 to 16 or 18 sprays is [00:39:45] about the max that I have used. And you'll know the first reaction is rashes. If that [00:39:50] happens to you, just come back guys. Don't have to go anything further than that.
Dave: Okay. And [00:39:55] like you're saying, this is more powerful than an intravenous treatment and getting into [00:40:00] cells.
So you get a bottle, how many sprays are in a bottle?
Nayan: The 240 sprays in a bottle, it's a [00:40:05] month supply, four sprays twice a day. It should last them a one month supply. Slow and steady wins the race. You [00:40:10] know, it's a, it's a marathon. It's not a race. It's not a sprint. So. Just go even [00:40:15] kill the bodies working at a particular place for the rest of your life.
You don't have [00:40:20] to sprint to it.
Dave: Dan, is there anything about Glutathione [00:40:25] that we haven't talked about on the show? I want listeners to be like, Oh, here's does this, does that, does that. So what did we [00:40:30] not get into? It's a potent longevity, performance enhancement, resilience molecule. [00:40:35] What else does it do? So
Nayan: one of the trials that we did, and this [00:40:40] was, I had no idea what this was going to come out articles to come out.
I was just doing a trial for absorption, making sure that it was [00:40:45] getting inside your cells or not. And the researcher at the university in California, what they did [00:40:50] was, you know what, I'm going to draw the blood for this people. And I'm going to infect those [00:40:55] blood with some mycobacter infection, like tuberculosis, avium, there's no cure for any of the [00:41:00] diseases and see what happens.
What the heck. Right. And so they did that. And [00:41:05] to their amazement, the people that had. glutathione in the blood, [00:41:10] the placebo group and the active group. The active group people, what they saw [00:41:15] was an immediate increase of all the cytokines, all the immunological markers, the interleukin 2, the [00:41:20] interleukin 12, interferon gamma, TNF alpha.
These are all the [00:41:25] cytokines that are known to go up because the body is signaling threat. And so, [00:41:30] glutathione is a it's, I know it's, it's an antioxidant. I know [00:41:35] it's a conjugator, but this thing proves it's a master immunological [00:41:40] responses as kicking in. So it is absolutely an immune [00:41:45] booster product that we didn't even think about that one.
And within one hour, they [00:41:50] saw a reduction of the mycobacterium load in the test tube. Uh, it was mind [00:41:55] blowing for the, for, for the researchers and they said, this is not antibacterial. It's not antiviral. It's not [00:42:00] antifungal. It's not none of those things, but what it's doing is it's allowing the body to [00:42:05] attack this problem and it can do so if the stress is low.
Dave: And when you say stress, this [00:42:10] is cellular reactive oxygen stress. Not I have high cortisol because I'm thinking about a final [00:42:15] exam or something.
Nayan: Yeah. It's not, it's not the cortisol stress. It's the, it's the RS stress.
Dave: Okay. Thank you. So [00:42:20] the, you know, It's, it's just a fascinating molecule, been on glutathione in one form or another [00:42:25] on and off for the past 25 years, and this is a substantial [00:42:30] breakthrough.
It seems like every five to seven years we figure out like another [00:42:35] major step, almost like we do in tech, like, okay, in Moore's law and all that kind of stuff, [00:42:40] it just keeps getting better, and sometimes it takes a longer period of time, but all of a sudden, [00:42:45] Now we can shift from IV to a topical spray and get higher levels inside the [00:42:50] cells with a lot less money and a lot less pain and just inconvenience, which [00:42:55] is one of the reasons I want to talk to you.
It's a better delivery system, but you also know a lot about the [00:43:00] nuances of using it, like how much is too much and all that. So this has been incredibly [00:43:05] educational, informative for me, and thanks for being such a deep nerd on. On [00:43:10] targeted delivery systems and on glutathione, because it's an unusual set of knowledge.
Nayan: Oh, thank you [00:43:15] for that. But it's not just the glutathione, it's a tripeptide. Imagine. Tell me more. Imagine [00:43:20] a peptide that I can, because right now all peptides are what, bioregulators.
Dave: [00:43:25] Yes. What if? I wrote, I wrote about bioregulators and superhuman, but not everybody read [00:43:30] it. So what's a bioregulator?
Nayan: Bioregulators are basically, it's a signaling molecule that signals [00:43:35] your body to actually help get a positive response to you, to what you're [00:43:40] looking for. And so peptides are messengers that tells your body to respond [00:43:45] without, with little or no side effects. And so to me, [00:43:50] they're amazing molecules. The question is, A body produces those [00:43:55] peptides internally, endogenously.
What if, imagine just what if [00:44:00] we can enhance those peptides back into a system? I can, I can do that with the [00:44:05] two, three or four or five amino acid chain peptides. I cannot work with like a GLP ones or [00:44:10] BPCs and all those big, large molecule peptides. I cannot work with those yet, but the small ones [00:44:15] I can get into your system endogenously into your cells and get the [00:44:20] response, not just for one time, for long periods of time.
And so [00:44:25] that's my next wave of future that I'm looking at personally myself because I need to [00:44:30] make sure that my brain skips keeps an active enough to keep on looking for new [00:44:35] ways to enhance Body above and beyond 180. I think [00:44:40] we we can comprehend it today that 120 is is is inevitable But I think we can reach [00:44:45] 120 easily.
Dave: We've already done 120. That's
Nayan: boring So 180 is something that people are [00:44:50] striving for today but The way we're going to move forward [00:44:55] beyond 150, 180, or 200 is that we are able to make sure the [00:45:00] body is able to regenerate, rejuvenate, and stay as is [00:45:05] for long, long periods of time. And so gluathione is great, but But there [00:45:10] has to be more than that.
It's just, it's just one molecule. So anyways, my, my work is going with peptides next. [00:45:15] Uh, and I have one more, one more coming out pretty soon.
Dave: I want to be first on the list to try them when they come [00:45:20] out, especially if you can do some bioregulators. Those are really potent. And even GHK is a big [00:45:25] deal. So, keep hooking me up.
All right. I will, for sure. All right, [00:45:30] guys, if you want to try this, it's, it's very noticeable compared to any [00:45:35] other form of glutathione that I've, I've experienced. So it's R O A U R [00:45:40] O wellness. com. We said code Dave, Dave 10, code Dave [00:45:45] 10, it will save you some money on it. And it's, it works. And we know why it works.
We know how it works. We know what it [00:45:50] does. And if you're spending a bunch of money on longevity, things like resveratrol and [00:45:55] NAD, Awesome, glutathione will make them work better. So you should do it for that reason and a whole bunch of [00:46:00] others.