Speaker: [00:00:00] Every guy in my family has man boobs. I don't have man boobs anymore [00:00:05] because I control my estrogen levels.
Speaker 2: Most people think estrogen is the devil, but for men, [00:00:10] it actually drives a lot of our sex drive and a lot of our cognition. Most people, when they get super, super lean, they're [00:00:15] going to aromatize less of their testosterone to estrogen, which leads to lower libido.
It leads to [00:00:20]
Speaker 3: Jay Campbell and Hunter Williams have spent years at the edges of health science, using [00:00:25] tools most people never hear about outside the dark corners of the gym. Advanced peptides, [00:00:30] bioregulators, they're bringing what was once fringe into the future. Human upgrades so cutting edge they [00:00:35] feel like magic, with the science to back them up.
Speaker 4: Most men today who have been using therapeutic [00:00:40] testosterone for a long time have what we call either testosterone or estrogen resistance syndrome.
Speaker: What do you [00:00:45] recommend for people on testosterone from a peptide perspective? [00:00:50] You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.[00:00:55]
In the very early days [00:01:00] of biohacking, I was using peptides and I didn't [00:01:05] bring them out in the front line of things because the world [00:01:10] may not have been ready for that. I wanted to push the boundaries of biohacking, but not explode them. [00:01:15] Right. So that people would just say, this is too crazy. So it was like, let's let this cook for [00:01:20] about seven years and become a movement.
And then we'll slowly talk about things like [00:01:25] BPC or GHK, these other. Peptides that are really important, and I put them in my [00:01:30] longevity book, including bioregulators, which are just exploding. And what I'm finding [00:01:35] today is that the number of peptides that a person could [00:01:40] use exceeds the amount of skin area for injecting that they have.[00:01:45]
So what is the framework that you recommend [00:01:50] for understanding how you might want to use peptides for [00:01:55] longevity, for cognition, for consciousness, for body recomposition? How do you think about them now? [00:02:00]
Speaker 4: It's a great question. I think people today have to first get to what I call [00:02:05] the precepts or the foundation and, you know, first.
You know, are you getting enough sleep? [00:02:10] The things you talk about a lot, right? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting 68 hours of sleep? Are you hormonally [00:02:15] optimized? One of the biggest issues for people that want to go into peptides is finding out whether or not they have a hormone [00:02:20] deficiency. And as you know, it's so bad in our current environment, especially in the [00:02:25] West because of the COVID 19.
Poisons in the air, the water, the phthalates, the endocrine [00:02:30] disruptive chemicals are everywhere.
Speaker: Right. I mean, all the blue hair dye alone just drops testosterone. I know [00:02:35] it's
Speaker 4: blue and purple hair. Don't care. Does not help matters. Right. But no, but it's [00:02:40] true. Like that's the first, you know, are you, and then of course, are you living insulin controlled?
Are you [00:02:45] training, you know, a combination of cardiovascular lifting weights or some form of resistance training? Like we always [00:02:50] tell people that that's most important before you dive into peptides, but Um, having that [00:02:55] said or having that dialed in, then starting with peptides, I think it comes down to what is [00:03:00] your biggest need in today's environment?
Most people are metabolically [00:03:05] dysregulated, right? They have insulin resistance. They have too much belly fat or too much hip and lower regional fat. [00:03:10] So it's like, what can I do to increase my metabolism, lose body fat, [00:03:15] get cleaner health. And then I would say after that, it's healing. It's cognitive enhancement [00:03:20] or restoration.
And then from there, it's longevity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read a business book [00:03:25] one time and one thing that always stuck with me is, I forget what book it was, but it said [00:03:30] fix your bleeding neck problem first. And I think with peptides, what it is [00:03:35] is people go on to peptide websites or they look at our videos, your videos, and [00:03:40] they say, okay, well, I want to lose fat.
I want to build muscle. I want to turn my brain into a supercomputer. I [00:03:45] want to increase my sex drive. And yeah, it'd be nice if I could have like superhuman [00:03:50] performance. But if you're 50 pounds overweight, you kind of have to go in steps [00:03:55] to get to that place. Or if you're 50 pounds overweight, but you have a broken foot, you probably want to heal your [00:04:00] broken foot first before you start focusing on the weight loss.
So I think for people it's kind of going through a [00:04:05] diagnostic of saying, what do I need to fix in my life? What's the bleeding neck problem address that? [00:04:10] And then, okay, if I don't want to attack some of these things down the road. And the good thing about doing that is as people [00:04:15] get more comfortable with using peptides, they actually go to framework around what they're comfortable [00:04:20] with because as Jay and I well know there's some people that respond amazing to one [00:04:25] peptide and then.
Maybe 40 or 50 percent of people have a terrible reaction to [00:04:30] that peptide. So I think it's address the bleeding neck problem. First, go from [00:04:35] there. Then you build a framework for yourself. Okay, this peptide worked for me. This one really doesn't work for me. And then [00:04:40] Mike J said, getting your hormones and metabolic health in order is the first thing.
And then once you [00:04:45] do that, peptides work. Amazing. But if you're not hormonally optimized and you're not doing the [00:04:50] things from a lifestyle perspective that work, they're going to maybe work three out of 10 instead of 10 out of [00:04:55] 10.
Speaker 4: That can't be true for all peptides. There's a lot of peptides that you can use without [00:05:00] anything.
You know, the healing peptides, I think most people are familiar with BPC 157, which is body protective [00:05:05] compound.
Speaker: I was named after Bulletproof Coffee,
Speaker 4: [00:05:10] though. That's really good. TB 500, right? Thymus and [00:05:15] beta. I mean, both of those peptides will work for most people regardless of their condition.
Speaker: They're good [00:05:20] entry level.
And yeah. And uh, I just have to do a shout out for people who've never tried [00:05:25] peptides, right? You should try PT one for one if you don't think they work. [00:05:30] So PT one for one is a side chain of a Milano [00:05:35] tan, which is what gives you a tan, but it makes you incredibly horny. So if you use [00:05:40] a little bit of PT one for one, one or two things is going to happen.
Most likely you're going to be [00:05:45] really like, wow, I, that's a lot of sex drive and it works for men and [00:05:50] women. And you might also be incredibly nauseous, right? And that's one of those things where you got to [00:05:55] figure out the dose and it sucks having tried different doses. If you take too much, [00:06:00] like now I'm horny and nauseous at the same time, and that's not a good combination.
I don't recommend that, but [00:06:05] for people who are saying, I don't know about this stuff, that one has a lot of efficacy. [00:06:10] What are peptides really doing though? It [00:06:15] feels like sometimes they're signaling molecules. They're telling the body what to [00:06:20] do. And of course, you just mentioned, well, figure out what, what's your goal.
And you might want to [00:06:25] pick one. Same with supplements, right? You know, it's mitochondria versus inflammation versus cognitive enhancement. [00:06:30] They're entirely different things.
Speaker 5: So
Speaker: you got to know how to do that. And [00:06:35] then for a lot of us, there might be a replacement thing when it comes to things like thymic thymic [00:06:40] fragments.
So how do you think about signaling versus replacement?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of depends [00:06:45] on the peptide. Like you said, there's some that are actually endogenous to the human body. So BPC one through seven endogenous to the human [00:06:50] body. But if I have a torn shoulder and injected my shoulder, it's going to do the signaling in the [00:06:55] shoulder to heal, help with inflammation, help with angiogenesis around the shoulder.
So depends on the [00:07:00] peptide, you could go as far as saying GLP one peptides. Those are super long chains of peptides that [00:07:05] depending on the dose can have massive Good benefits or bad benefits for some [00:07:10] people depending on using it So kind of comes down to the peptide as you get [00:07:15] more and more into peptides Like I said summer and Dodgers and other ones have like PT 141 have been [00:07:20] modified to achieve this certain effect I say broad category wise most [00:07:25] of them are signaling molecules.
But as we age, like you said, with thymus [00:07:30] pept, thymus peptides, thymus alpha one, thymolend, they're helping restore glandular [00:07:35] functions. And you have a thymus gland after 30 that goes down drastically. So they're helping restore some of the [00:07:40] functions. So it's a good question. I think it kind of depends on the use case for [00:07:45] someone and then bringing them back into balance.
And then, you know, you talk about hormone therapy and everything that can kind of get them where they need [00:07:50] to go.
Speaker 4: Well, to pick up off of that too, though, as you know, Because you mentioned in the [00:07:55] very beginning, bioregulators are now coming into the mass consciousness, right? We've had peptides for the last, I'd [00:08:00] say, two or three years.
And a lot of that, Dave, is because a lot of people are looking for alternative forms of [00:08:05] healing from the, you know, what, right? Nobody wants to talk about that, but that's kind of how they boomed into [00:08:10] mainstream consciousness. And now you have all the bioregulators.
Speaker: You're talking about, like, vaccine injury?
Yes. [00:08:15] Yes. Some people call it long COVID, but they don't know what's
Speaker 2: going on. It's kind of, uh, one big, [00:08:20] yeah, thing that gets lumped together. Oh
Speaker 4: my God, exactly. But, I mean, the, the Cavinson bioregulators, which [00:08:25] are from, you know, named from Dr. Victor Cavinson, the former Russian, uh, By the way, the father of bioregular [00:08:30] research they're amazing as you know, because a lot of people are familiar with the peptides, again, [00:08:35] the BBC's, the alphas and stuff of the world, but they're not familiar with the bioregulators.
And [00:08:40] we like the bioregulators in combination with the, you know, call them [00:08:45] injectable peptides because. As you, as you know, they do restore a lot of natural function, [00:08:50] right? So it's kind of like the supplement.
Speaker: My, uh, in my longevity book in [00:08:55] superhuman, which I think is 2018, 2016, something like that. I put a chapter [00:09:00] on my regulators because they're so powerful.
And what, what's interesting, if you're listening to the show, [00:09:05] going bio whatever's, these are peptides that come from young animals. And Russians are amazing [00:09:10] biohackers. They just think differently than we do. In the west. So porcine and [00:09:15] bovine, right? You can take them and I've used them for years and They work [00:09:20] orally and I always kind of scratch my head because most of the western peptides You have to inject them [00:09:25] with very small needles.
They don't hurt very much not like shooting testosterone but [00:09:30] why is it that bioregulator peptides work orally and We believe that these [00:09:35] other peptides cannot have oral action
Speaker 2: So a lot of it comes down to the chain [00:09:40] length sequence of the amino acids The cool thing about bioregulators is typically depends on one, but typically [00:09:45] there are two to four amino acids long Meaning that it's much more stable Whereas you take like a [00:09:50] GLP one peptide, those can be over 50 amino acid long.
So they're very fragile, which is why [00:09:55] with an injectable peptide, you have to reconstitute it, refrigerate it, make sure it's not exposed to heat. So that doesn't denature. [00:10:00] Whereas a bioregular is very short chain, meaning they can actually go through the digestive tract without [00:10:05] breaking down and defragment.
Speaker 4: And they're designed to be tissue or organ specific, right? So if [00:10:10] you look at like typical Rockefeller petroleum distillate medications, when they [00:10:15] break down, they leave the residue. As you know, that causes side effects. And issues long term [00:10:20] to where we get to, you know, the average person in their 60s today in the United States or say the West is on [00:10:25] like 18 to 20 color coded medications, many of them to handle the side effects of those [00:10:30] medications, whereas by regulators designed to, let's say, work for your thymic gland, your heart, [00:10:35] you know, your kidney, your prostate and then live it on their their tissue [00:10:40] specific, and they leave no toxic residue or side effects as they break down in the system.
Because again, they are [00:10:45] organic signaling molecules. So they represent really what we like to say a foundational [00:10:50] change in medicine or healing, quantum healing, and that they're really addressing the fundamental root cause [00:10:55] of whatever it is versus the other stuff where it's just kind of causing side effects and band aiding your symptoms.[00:11:00]
Speaker: It is fair to say, though, you can get side effects from peptides. These are very [00:11:05] powerful.
Speaker 4: I think injectable that, you know, we could talk about what they are, but I've noticed I've [00:11:10] never spoken to a single person who's been using bioregulators for more than four or five years. Who's ever told me that [00:11:15] they actually had a noticeable side effect other than that there might not have worked.
Yeah. Expectation.
Speaker: [00:11:20] Bioregulators do not have side effects that I'm aware of. There might be some, but they
Speaker 4: [00:11:25] say there's some.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But, but. But to talk to, to address that injectable peptides, [00:11:30] then the primary or the premier known side effects are like irritation, you know, [00:11:35] at the site injection, like you get like a red cellulitis or rash or bumpy [00:11:40] things.
Some people get, as you know, from some peptides, like a CJC, you get a [00:11:45] flushing, a not like a niacin effect. So I
Speaker: turn bright red from, from that. Or even, um. Yeah. [00:11:50] Must be melanotan, uh, that, that causes nausea. Yeah. Well, I don't, I'd get some nausea, but [00:11:55] I also just turned bright red, even if I'm not in the sun for a little while.
From, except from Melanotan one, [00:12:00] uh, two. Probably from one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And alright, let's talk about Melanotan. This is [00:12:05] one of my favorites and it also makes you horny, but I get a 10 from it [00:12:10] in just a short period of time.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker: A TAN is protective, which is good, but it's [00:12:15] also a circadian molecule in a really important way that gets broken by bad light.
Can you walk me [00:12:20] through what Melanotan do and why people might want to use them?
Speaker 4: So Melanotan 1 is my favorite [00:12:25] peptide, like you. I wrote about that in my book, The Testosterone Optimization Therapy Bible, way back when. Also in [00:12:30] 2017, published in 2018. But it's a profound melanin [00:12:35] cortoid receptor complex peptide, and as you know, it does a lot of things for the [00:12:40] human body, including optimized mitochondria.
I mean, it does so many things like a separate podcast [00:12:45] to go down the rabbit hole on that. But if you take a micro dose of it, we have found [00:12:50] that it allows you to get into quote unquote stillness. Right. You can get deeper [00:12:55] if you have a, you know, internal work or contemplative spiritual practice, meditative practice.
[00:13:00] So we love it for that. And again, you only need a micro dose. And then, as you already mentioned, it [00:13:05] is establishing a gradient of your natural melanin. So whatever your natural melanin [00:13:10] production is. And again, you and I are white bread, but it makes us darker. Yeah. Right? Like I've been using this [00:13:15] since 2009.
I tell people that I was, before I started using melanin tan one, I was white [00:13:20] as can be. I mean, I'm from the Midwest and my skin is permanently, I would say a [00:13:25] lighter, I mean a darker shade of what I was. But I feel when I use a [00:13:30] microdose of it. And again, microdose for me is a couple of shots a week, unless I'm in a tropical [00:13:35] place where I'm going to get a lot of sun and I want to do it in the morning, but I can get into a deeper, more [00:13:40] still, faster focus.
Uh, in my contemplated practice when I use [00:13:45] Melanotan versus not using it,
Speaker: I, I find it, it increases mitochondrial function, which is [00:13:50] foundational for entering altered states, especially my, my latest,
Speaker 2: which is interesting, talking about [00:13:55] signaling it upregulates, melanin, the melanin receptor, which my theory around this, I [00:14:00] don't know if this has been written about in papers or anything, but it enhances.
The ability for your body to [00:14:05] metabolize sunlight is, it's an energy source, more or less. And so what it's doing to talk [00:14:10] to the stillness aspect of it, who doesn't feel better when you're out at the beach getting [00:14:15] sun, it's always easier to meditate when you're in the sun. And if you can take that and enhance the [00:14:20] connection between sunlight and your body, that's going to help function and obviously to all the other immune [00:14:25] boosting benefits, all of the other, like we talked about stillness, mental cognitive benefits.
Uh, are [00:14:30] pretty amazing too. So it's almost like you're taking sunlight and then saying, okay, this pep night signals sunlight [00:14:35] in my body to be able to be metabolized better. And then to the benefit of that is it prevents you [00:14:40] from burning, which is nice because I, Jay and I use it now in a view of sunscreen.
So [00:14:45] a lot of times I can use that. There's
Speaker 4: an awesome scientist by the name of Dr. Frank Barr, who is like kind of one of the [00:14:50] pre preeminent researchers in melanin. Way back in the 60s and 70s. And [00:14:55] somehow a lot of his information has been not on found on the internet, but he did some very, very fabulous and deep [00:15:00] research on what it does.
And he used to say that melanin was like this [00:15:05] fractalized energy conductor and that it enhanced the entire symphony of all the [00:15:10] cells of the body.
Speaker: It appears to be true. I think it was in [00:15:15] Superhuman my longevity book. I talked about two studies out of Mexico where [00:15:20] scientists had shown strangely, they were, I think, eye doctors like what is going on with this [00:15:25] ocular melanin because we have melanin, not just in our skin, but in the back of our eye and in our [00:15:30] brain where they call it junk melanin and it's not junk.
Speaker 2: It jumped in.
Speaker: Yeah, it's [00:15:35] it's It's actually a capacitor. It can make a burst of energy when you need it [00:15:40] to and true. And if you're a nerd and in the engineering side of things, capacitors store [00:15:45] electricity to provide huge amounts of it in a short period of time. That's why it's in the brain. So these guys [00:15:50] showed you can take up to 10 percent of the electrons your body [00:15:55] needs from sunshine with all the pathways, but it requires a melanin, which is [00:16:00] why that, you know, ghostly white color is a sign of health dysfunction.
Sorry, [00:16:05] Canadians. Um, you know, you guys need UV lights. Seriously. If you want to be at your full power, [00:16:10] it's required. I
Speaker 4: feel so also just to add to the capacitor part of it. I feel that [00:16:15] as you get deeper into the use of melanin, And we can talk about monotone too. I don't really like it as [00:16:20] much, but for melatonin one, I feel it enhances consciousness.
I feel that it enhances your [00:16:25] connection.
Speaker: Anything that increases mitochondrial function increases connection. Uh, and I've, [00:16:30] I've had the honor of both measuring brainwaves of gurus and of putting them on [00:16:35] mitochondrial protocols. And they're always like, I got my powers back or my powers are stronger.
[00:16:40] And so it's just how it is for people that meditate. That's why my latest book is on [00:16:45] meditation. Right. Actually, it's not a meditation. It's how to do things that work faster than meditation. Cause I'm [00:16:50] lazy. You know, and nothing wrong with saying I wanted to get more meditation and less time. At least I don't think so.
[00:16:55] Right. It can feel, I would say daunting the [00:17:00] first time you inject yourself.
Speaker 4: Definitely.
Speaker: Tell me about the first time you injected yourself.
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to give you my [00:17:05] needle phobia story. When I first injected therapeutic testosterone back in 1999, I couldn't do it. [00:17:10] I was literally sitting there holding onto the needle.
And eventually my ex wife shout out to Kelly came up to me. [00:17:15] She's like, what are you doing? He grabbed it on my hand and just injected. And it's done. I was like, [00:17:20] sweating. Like, that's not so hard. Here's the truth about injection. [00:17:25] trick question. What is the phobia of injection? Do you know the name of the word?
It's [00:17:30] ridiculous.
Speaker: I forgot the name, but uh, one of my former employees had it really bad. Yeah, it's Tyra phobia. [00:17:35] Tyra phobia. That's so good. , dinosaurs and needles.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. But the truth is, is that [00:17:40] back in the day injections, we did not have the solutions. [00:17:45] That the testosterone and obviously now with aqueous peptides where they could go through a very small gauge needle [00:17:50] So you had to use a bigger needle, right?
So you get scar tissue You would people would have a fear of it, but [00:17:55] now it's like brushing your teeth You can inject therapeutic testosterone as you know through [00:18:00] a medical grade pen now So I mean, like everything has changed dramatically. So I guess a [00:18:05] lot of the fear of injection that people have had, you know, traditionally over the last 15, 20 years really isn't really [00:18:10] that much.
But to your point, until you inject yourself a couple of times, you're going to have a fear. [00:18:15] I've never met anyone who did not have a fear of injecting themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My first time actually was, [00:18:20] and luckily I found Jay. He's been my mentor to learn all the stuff about peptides, but I actually [00:18:25] injected glutathione and or anyone that's injected glutathione.
And at the time it's [00:18:30] thick. Yeah, I was probably 25. I didn't know what I was doing and I had a [00:18:35] 23 gauge one inch needle and I pulled one ML of glutathione and just injected [00:18:40] it right into my glute and it stung and it hurt so bad and it hurt for like two days after. Yeah. But after [00:18:45] that I was like, well, that's not too bad.
And so from there everything else got easier. So I [00:18:50] started on the, the harder end. And at the time I didn't even know that I didn't need to do that big of a needle, [00:18:55] just inject the dial. Have you
Speaker: ever injected urine? I'm calling that the bio lane protocol now.
Speaker 2: The [00:19:00] bio Both.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have, I have not. I haven't heard of that.
Speaker: It, it just, he's, I [00:19:05] think he's some kind of micro influencer. But, uh, yeah, that's what I [00:19:10] call urine injection now.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And I actually have injected my urine.[00:19:15]
I'm not sure why you're laughing. I never heard of [00:19:20] this guy. Oh,
Speaker 4: that's so good, man. That's awesome. [00:19:25] Uh, so, uh,
Speaker: okay. I'm going to keep a straight [00:19:30] face here.
Speaker 2: Let the record say that urine is not a pep. Yes.
Speaker: [00:19:35] No, your is not a peptide. And I don't actually recommend most people inject it, but I had a medical doctor teach [00:19:40] me how the protocol works.
It's a, An unusual allergy [00:19:45] mediating technique, but you have to inject 10 mls, you have to [00:19:50] inject 10 mls of urine and I'm bringing up just because that is a huge volume, right? [00:19:55] And you're doing it because Your urine contains antigens, and if you put antigens into your own [00:20:00] muscle, then your body makes antigens life threatening allergies become [00:20:05] less life threatening.
Right. So people are like, I'm, you know, I'm triggered by urine, [00:20:10] and you know, in my latest book, it's like, if you can be triggered, someone can trigger you, [00:20:15] it means you're carrying a loaded gun, and their finger's on the trigger. Right. So, one of my love languages is [00:20:20] triggering people who are very angry all the time, so they can learn to be less angry.
Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's awesome. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. [00:20:25] So anyway, talking about urine therapy, if you can inject 10 mls in your glute, [00:20:30] okay, similar to that, it's like, ouch, but less allergies may be worth it. Guys, don't just do this with like, this is a [00:20:35] doctor thing. So the first time I injected, I was [00:20:40] just doing B12 and the same thing.
You have the one inch needle. And, you know, there was not [00:20:45] videos. This is a long time ago,
Speaker 4: 22 gauge body, right? Yeah.
Speaker: And I'm sitting there and I'm looking at, I'll do it in [00:20:50] my thigh. Cause it didn't really have good anything back there. And I'm like,
Speaker 6: yeah,
Speaker: it took an [00:20:55] hour. Yeah, sure. I've almost like met him, like it would go and then my body would stop.
[00:21:00] We have very deep sea of that first F word in when I teach that in fear around [00:21:05] penetrating the skin barrier, because that kills humans throughout all of history. Like, do [00:21:10] not do that. Right. Even what's going on my kids is meltdown from a splinter like the meltdown comes because it's like [00:21:15] for thousands of generations.
We've died from bacteria. So anyway, you're like, I'm going to [00:21:20] overcome that and you're shaking and you're sweating and then you do it and it doesn't even hurt. You're like, Oh, [00:21:25] right. Or maybe it's a little bit if it's glutathione or pee, but it goes in like, [00:21:30] Oh, okay. That wasn't so bad. Yeah. And so. With [00:21:35] injecting peptides, though, it's a tiny little needle, and you just take a pinch of skin, and sometimes you don't even feel [00:21:40] it, so I want people to understand, you will be afraid the first time you inject something, and if it's a [00:21:45] peptide, it's really not going to hurt.
No,
Speaker 4: it's
Speaker: not.
Speaker 4: I mean, and to that point, it's a [00:21:50] 31 or 32 gauge insulin needle. It's, you know, what? 5 16th of an inch or [00:21:55] less or even smaller than that. And you're right. I mean, you could literally jab yourself whether you're [00:22:00] fat or muscular and you're not even going to feel it. It's the pain of the psychological, the [00:22:05] psychological capacity of like, it's going to hurt me.
Like you said.
Speaker: It's totally, it's totally [00:22:10] true.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: One of the things that I'm really [00:22:15] appreciating is the stuff you're doing with bio longevity. And it's because there [00:22:20] are now oral peptides. Not all of them are going to work orally, but you've put [00:22:25] together formulas like, um, shred and oh, right
Speaker 4: [00:22:30] there.
Speaker: Bio gut pro.
Oh, sweet. I thought actually this came from my counter. Yes, it did. So [00:22:35] got it. So BPC one, five, seven. And that one we know works [00:22:40] orally because it's a gastric healing peptide. And I've given it to so many people or recommended it. So many people have [00:22:45] Crohn's or chronic IBS and things and they heal, right?
I mean, you've talked about that as well. You [00:22:50] have KPV and several other things in here that are actually Really, [00:22:55] really helpful like GHK, but like, as you like collagen, I've kind of made that a billion dollar industry. [00:23:00] GHK is copper tripeptide, which is present in collagen.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker: Right. [00:23:05] So you can take this and they work because these are short chain.
So this would be [00:23:10] like your gut repair formula.
Speaker 4: That is actually the strongest oral. Peptide based product [00:23:15] right now, as we make in this podcast in the world.
Speaker: This is bio gut pro and no needles required, [00:23:20] which is the important thing. So you only want to take this if you are [00:23:25] working on your gut pretty much.
And then you might switch over to like bio mind. [00:23:30] totally different than most of the stuff that's out there. Like it is
Speaker 4: different than everything. [00:23:35] Yeah, like we
Speaker: make something called brain 101, which is totally synergistic with us because [00:23:40] that's nutrients and some adaptogens and some herbs, but you have [00:23:45] J 1 47 dihexa and new pepped and that's in by a mind again, no needles [00:23:50] required.
What do people experience that's different from a normal nootropic formula [00:23:55] when they take this?
Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty, I mean, I know you've used it. It's a, it's a whole different level. I mean, uh, [00:24:00] so J 1 47 is like a stage two, uh, Alzheimer's drug right now that they're having [00:24:05] incredible results from. I mean, when you take that, and then obviously DHEA, as you know, is a very strong [00:24:10] nootropic and then new baptism, otam.
When you take this peptide, we should all take it [00:24:15] actually, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Here have some, I I actually didn't take any raam this morning. NEPT is a very powerful one.
Speaker 4: [00:24:20] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, and, and, and we're all fasting right now. So reality is all [00:24:25] three of these, excuse me, all, all three of these products, and if you take two capsules, this is one dosage.
It just [00:24:30] makes everything brighter. Yeah. There's no heart increase. There's no [00:24:35] noradrenaline spike. There's no jitteriness. There's literally just everything becomes [00:24:40] brighter. And I think, you know, you can add, it's like six to eight hours of very clean. [00:24:45] Wow. Lights are brighter. I'm more focused. And I think most people that have used this so far, [00:24:50] by the way, as you know, this has only been in the marketplace for six weeks.
Speaker: I get all the good stuff first. You can pass longer [00:24:55] than that. But I mean, most people who use
Speaker 4: this will say that, wow, They've come back [00:25:00] to us whether it's at a conference or they, you know, just started using it and started messaging us They're saying like this is [00:25:05] something that I want to take every day But we want to make sure that people are taking it every day because it's very powerful [00:25:10] And it's method of action.
Speaker 2: Yeah, j147 is really interesting Most people if they're [00:25:15] on the fringe i've probably heard of the hexa noob have probably used them but j147 is actually a [00:25:20] super extract of curcumin. And what it does talking about mitochondria activity, it actually [00:25:25] drives mitochondria activity in the brain. So everyone loves creatine for driving mitochondria activity in the brain.
J [00:25:30] 147 is like that, but it's even better and more potent than creatine is at doing it. So you [00:25:35] pair that with the dihexa and the Nupep, It gives you this really profound sense [00:25:40] of calm focus without raising your heart rate or without really impairing [00:25:45] sleep function for most people that we've seen. Now, would I take it before I go to bed?
No. But [00:25:50] when you're playing the nootropic game, it's always the balance of like, okay, how do I get The bang for the buck [00:25:55] without the downside and what I like about that is it's enough to kind of help do that [00:26:00] without making you to feel to stimulate out, I guess, that's
Speaker: one of the [00:26:05] problems in just the whole cognitive enhancement space and it was actually my [00:26:10] second big book was on cognitive enhancement because there really weren't a lot of modern books on this.
Um, there was [00:26:15] like Steve folks, one of my mentors, you know, smart drugs and nutrients from like 1987 or [00:26:20] something. And just shout out to Steve has been on the show and it's a good friend. [00:26:25] So we got to talk about this in the context of mitochondria, which you just did, which is great. Some better mitochondria, [00:26:30] better brain and better everything else.
I'm kind of have a mitochondria fetish. You might've noticed. No, it's not. Good.
Speaker 4: It's [00:26:35] a
Speaker: good, very good. Of all the things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure.[00:26:40]
Speaker: What happens then is. [00:26:45] I've had days where, especially if I'm using some pharmaceuticals or even some of the really strong things like, [00:26:50] you know, try and take five grams of tyrosine, right? And you're like, [00:26:55] yeah, but never levels are too high. So you can overdo it. And, and I would [00:27:00] just encourage you, you're listening to this.
You don't have to do everything all at once because [00:27:05] that's probably going to be Okay. For the first couple hours. Holy crap. I love my life. And then like, I'm nauseous. [00:27:10] I'm shaking. I got a headache. Like those up must come down. Yeah. Like there's that the [00:27:15] caffeine analog thing. Let's just gives me a headache every time I take it.
Yeah. That's out there. Like I prefer just natural [00:27:20] caffeine. And I don't know, maybe, maybe I have a bias. It's on my. Yeah. So speaking of biceps, I was just gonna [00:27:25] say, you're looking a little, I mean, we're looking at low body fat here. What's going on? Like the peptides [00:27:30] not working. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess I got to come in better ready, ready to go.
It's not, [00:27:35] I'm totally right here. Notice it is, it is [00:27:40] fun. You know, what's funny is
Speaker: totally ripped down. Uh, and, [00:27:45] and guys, um, shaming people is a great way to motivate them. It's, it's very high vibes. I recommend it.
Speaker 2: [00:27:50] Now, if you can't laugh at yourself, though, what can
Speaker: you, you got veins on your[00:27:55]
Speaker 4: He's a big boy, actually. [00:28:00] Yeah,
Speaker: no, I can tell. I think you guys both probably can press more than I can right now. [00:28:05] But I did inject peptides and stem cells and [00:28:10] exosomes in both shoulders that had tears. Nice. Um, so all of my shoulders are repaired now, so [00:28:15] I'm in the process of building them back up after recovery.
You're looking pretty good, bro. You've seen the book cover. [00:28:20] Like,
Speaker 4: I'm very happy with that. Yeah. You're awesome. That's all the picture down in your living room [00:28:25] too. It looks great.
Speaker: Because a 300 pounder formerly, it's a big difference. Yeah. I want to ask you this [00:28:30] though. How lean is too lean?
Speaker 4: Great question.
Most guys, I mean, I think [00:28:35] it's a great question because I think if we compare it to like social media, you know, people are always playing the compare [00:28:40] game to seeing, you know, fitness influencers or, you know, bodybuilders or performance athletes or whatever, [00:28:45] like super low levels of body fat. We stress for our audience as a [00:28:50] man or as a woman, there's two different levels, right?
And obviously women have internal body fat from maternal [00:28:55] purposes that men don't carry. So like a woman is never going to be as lean as a man because of that internal [00:29:00] body fat, but the best optimal levels for health. And let's [00:29:05] remember, and this is important statistically proven, you will live longer, the leaner you are.
[00:29:10] Right? Because fat tissue is highly inflammatory, especially visceral fat, and it [00:29:15] gets around the organs. It's going to shorten your lifespan. So the, the leaner you are statistically, the [00:29:20] longer you'll live,
Speaker: there is a lower limit that 1 percent body fat is high risk. [00:29:25] But
Speaker 4: obviously healthy from a healthy standpoint would be for men.
It's somewhere between 12 to 15%. [00:29:30] Is it healthy when you get down into the single digits, which, you know, we are as long [00:29:35] as you're doing a lot of, you know, very anal retentive, lots of cardio, Living insulin controlled [00:29:40] using growth hormone agonist peptides or human growth hormone or testosterone. I think a man can [00:29:45] be somewhere You know year round between 8 and 12 and still maintain health From [00:29:50] a longevity standpoint women it's different women is somewhere between 14 and
Speaker: 20 [00:29:55] And a lot of that is just based on boob size Yeah.
I mean, seriously, they're made out of fat. If you, [00:30:00] if you have D cups, you're, that's a major percentage of your body fat. And there's like, so [00:30:05] just trying to do body fat on women, I think is dumb. Yeah. It's just visceral fat is all that matters. Yeah. Yeah. [00:30:10] Right. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And no one really talks about that with body fat percentage, because if you're a man, And you're [00:30:15] 10% body fat versus 12% body fat, but you have more visceral fat.
It's kind of what [00:30:20] proportion Yeah. Of that. Yeah. Ratio. Visceral fat. And that's why women have so much of a wider range. Mm-hmm. Because a [00:30:25] woman could be 17% body fat or 23% body fat, but you might see the one that's [00:30:30] 23% body fat may actually look like they're in better shape and probably have a better profile.
That's true. Mm-hmm . Than the one [00:30:35] to 17% body fat. I think to, to add to Jay's point, especially in, [00:30:40] man, what I've noticed personally. It's when I get down too low, there's a hormonal [00:30:45] component that can really skew to the negative, meaning that as [00:30:50] men, whether we're using testosterone therapy, or we're just relying on our natural production, the leaner you are, the [00:30:55] less you actually aromatize into estrogen, so less testosterone gets converted into [00:31:00] estrogen, the leaner you are, and what I've noticed is that when I've gotten super, super lean at [00:31:05] different times in my life, There is less estrogen, which most people think estrogen [00:31:10] is the devil, but for men, it actually drives a lot of our sex drive and a lot of our cognition.
And the lower and [00:31:15] lower you get as a man, most people don't struggle with this. The problem in society is kind of the other way, [00:31:20] but most people, when they get super, super lean, they're going to aromatize less of their testosterone to estrogen, [00:31:25] which leads to lower libido. It leads kind of this brain fog.
And also too, like you were saying, the joint health [00:31:30] I've noticed when I've gotten super, super lean, my elbows, my knees kind of feel. [00:31:35] Much less like there's juice and kind of like a nice pump behind it when you're training. [00:31:40] So
Speaker: do you just take a birth control pill on Sundays or what do you
Speaker 2: do? You definitely could.[00:31:45]
You could do that. You could inject estrogen, but do you actually inject estrogen? Yes. [00:31:50]
Speaker: I actually want to go down that rabbit hole. I might, I might, I might be willing to try [00:31:55] that. It's actually pretty amazing. I mean, you know, let's talk about that. Yeah. [00:32:00] So There's this thing where testosterone is the man's hormone.
Okay, women have four times more [00:32:05] testosterone than they do estrogen, because estrogen is really powerful. I use a topical estrogen [00:32:10] on my face. My face looks pretty fucking good. And there's a reason for that. You're 83, right? Uh, [00:32:15] yeah, that's my IQ. But, uh, , and the thing that I'm [00:32:20] dealing you father of biohacking, bro.
Ah, why, why that ? So, I, [00:32:25] my, my system, I, I use a $26,000 medical grade stuff from [00:32:30] upgrade labs. Yep. That measures visceral fat and all that stuff. I've incredibly low visceral fat, like low for [00:32:35] eight. Yeah. Yeah, low for an 18 year old. My liver fat on scans, the youngest liver. So that's all, [00:32:40] that's all great.
And no seed oils for 15 years. Cause it's been an early voice [00:32:45] about omega sixes. Right? So. I'm somewhere between 4. 8 and [00:32:50] 6 percent body fat, which changes with bio impedance and all, but this is a clinical grade system. [00:32:55] So that is competition grade lean. Yeah, that's insane. And it's probably [00:33:00] not best for longevity.
Right. And so I've. Actually been working on how the heck do [00:33:05] I put on body fat, which sounds crazy.
Speaker 4: How do you know it's not best for longevity? I mean, [00:33:10] like what markers are you measuring to really understand that? Well,
Speaker: you, I mean, there's all kinds of [00:33:15] longevity things that she'll do. You look at, uh, methylation tests, true age.
And [00:33:20] you look at Fino age, uh, he's been in here. [00:33:25] But, uh, you know, there, there's all, uh, there's all kinds of different ways of measuring it. Sure. Um, [00:33:30] and. Mine are all pretty good and they, they're going to range from whatever, about an eight year [00:33:35] range between the different ones.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker: So. What I've learned from the, my elders in [00:33:40] longevity, starting even in the late nineties, like there's some ideal probably around eight to [00:33:45] 12 for men, which is, okay, you get in a car accident, you want some body fat, you need some [00:33:50] reserves.
I don't have any. So I've been trying to put fat on as a guy who's my entire family's [00:33:55] obese.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. I struggled for many years and I use [00:34:00] peptides and I use all my longevity stuff and all that. And I am effortlessly lean. I can have 400 [00:34:05] grams of carbs for six months every day with as much steak and butter.
I do not put body [00:34:10] fat on. Right. What's going on with that?
Speaker 4: Because Mark wanted me to say, [00:34:15] say hi to you, Mark Bell, you know, he's on a sugar diet right now. So I love Mark. Yeah. He, he [00:34:20] wanted to say, he said, say what's up. He loves you. And, uh, he said, you guys got to mention the sugar diet. So anyway, I just [00:34:25] parked it in there, but, uh, yeah, I mean, the truth is, is that once you dial your [00:34:30] body and what you have from all the things that you do, and obviously all of us do a lot of things.
The, [00:34:35] the macronutrient content really doesn't matter. It's really balancing the protein between the [00:34:40] carbs, between the fat. And that's where I think we're realizing now in human nutrition that you can eat [00:34:45] any macronutrient loaded type of diet and maintain leanness and health. It's just a matter of [00:34:50] combining things correctly.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and it's, it, [00:34:55] I would have said this is impossible to do. I said, Oh, I want to put on weight. I'll just eat a whole bunch of rice. [00:35:00] Right. And it, it's not like that anymore. Once things are truly working. Totally. And [00:35:05] I want to get back to estrogen, but let's talk a little bit about the sugar diet.
So it is [00:35:10] abundantly clear that you can eat a zero fat, High starch [00:35:15] diet and lose weight. Yep. It's a hundred percent proven. Yeah. This is basically the Ornish diet. Yep. [00:35:20] Now the Ornish diet. Yeah. Dean or gave it, gave Steve [00:35:25] Jobs pancreatic cancer. Right. I did a whole bunch of research to find out what diet he was actually on, and it was the Ornish [00:35:30] diet and I published it and, and Dean came on and said, well, I told him to get to get to get [00:35:35] surgery.
He didn't listen. I'm like, yeah, you also gave him that cancer with a super high carb [00:35:40] diet, so if you want to live on a high sugar. High starch, zero [00:35:45] fat diet, that's a valid way to lose weight. Unfortunately, you're going to have high blood glucose, [00:35:50] and you're going to have high insulin levels. Insulin is aging, and blood glucose is aging.
So I don't think it's the right [00:35:55] path, but Shoot holes in that.
Speaker 4: Well, so no, I mean, I, I, that's what I say to market. And the, [00:36:00] the one thing you left off is what about carries in the mouth? What about teeth? Dental issue, because [00:36:05] I'm yeast. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so there, there, there's a lot of stuff here. And again, I think Mark, you know, I [00:36:10] love Mark.
We all love Mark. I just spent, I was just on his podcast two weeks ago and I spent a whole couple of [00:36:15] days with him up in Northern Cal, but I think that again, context is important. [00:36:20] And I think. You know, he's his, so his sugar diet [00:36:25] is based on fruits, fructose, sucrose, again, fast, [00:36:30] readily absorbable, keeping the the, the starches or, or the thicker, you know, higher [00:36:35] glycemic carbohydrates, like at bay, where you only use it as a small portion at night.
So he has [00:36:40] changed it a little bit where it's just pure starches and pure sugar combined. Um, but I [00:36:45] think it's, again, it's context. Like, what are you attempting to do for him right now? You know, he's [00:36:50] 49 and he's obviously very fit and very lean. He's attempting to put on a little bit of size and [00:36:55] maintains leanness.
And so he's experimenting with this as you know as I know as as hunter knows you can [00:37:00] pick up on this is I think as we get older we have to remain metabolically flexible It's [00:37:05] totally relative to our energetic demand on what we do every day A bodybuilder is going to require [00:37:10] more carbohydrates than probably somebody who is an ultra endurance athlete So who may be using a [00:37:15] keto diet or a low carb diet or something like that didn't mix.
But again, it's just remain. [00:37:20] How do we maintain metabolic flexibility? Also understanding that all of us are biochemical unique. [00:37:25] Some of us can handle carbohydrates more than others. You know, [00:37:30] the guy, Peter Diamo, you know, the blood type guy, you know, he always speculated that the closer you were. [00:37:35] The more your body evolved evolutionary, biologically [00:37:40] to handle carbohydrates from, you know, what was bountiful and plentiful versus people like me and you [00:37:45] or all of us who are, you know, closer to you know, Northern European ancestry and stuff like that, where [00:37:50] we, we were hunters and gatherers and we didn't eat for once every 36 hours.
So I think. There is that [00:37:55] understanding to that again, depending on your skin cone and how close you are from an ethnic standpoint to [00:38:00] the equator, that you probably can handle more carbs if you're closer to the equator than people like us. [00:38:05] That's my opinion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to, to Mark's point, most [00:38:10] people that again, the bleeding neck problem is that they have too much body fat.
And what happens a lot of [00:38:15] times for those people is they, okay, I got fat from eating. High processed sugars [00:38:20] and lots of seed oil
Speaker: or low thyroid function or low testosterone or environmental [00:38:25] Exactly
Speaker 2: it's a it's a soup and it creates creates someone and you have someone that's 50 [00:38:30] 100 pounds overweight and they say I got to do something so they go online they google [00:38:35] okay well maybe it's the carnivore diet maybe it's the keto diet carbs are bad right so I'm going to pull the carbs
Speaker: [00:38:40] through this for the first 60 days
Speaker 2: for the first 60 days That works because for [00:38:45] the first time a lot of these people are removing processed foods.
Yes, they're removing the Yeah, [00:38:50] plus they're on a glp1 which then slows gastric emptying even that much further [00:38:55] than just a carnivore keto diet itself But anyway, so you have someone okay 60 days it works and then all of a [00:39:00] sudden what happens the body is really smart It brings into homeostasis. Okay, you're only going [00:39:05] to give me 1600 calories of this macronutrient.
I'm going to adapt to that. Then what [00:39:10] happens? Thyroid function or thyroid dysfunction. Thyroid stalls out. It stops working. [00:39:15] And all of a sudden, they're not metabolically flexible. They're metabolically inflexible. And they've like [00:39:20] basically pigeonholed themselves into this one thing, and they don't know what to do.
And then [00:39:25] you take someone like that. You say, okay, let's pull out all of these fats. Let's [00:39:30] now give you some sugar. And what happens with thyroid? They have no energy. So when their thyroid slows down, they have no energy. [00:39:35] So they don't want to exercise. They don't want to go to the gym. You give them a little bit of sugar.
You pull out the fats all of a sudden. Now, hey, [00:39:40] Well, the lights come on a little bit for this person, it starts to actually pick up their [00:39:45] thyroid, then they can go walk, they can go to the gym, all of a sudden now they're actually burning the carbohydrates, [00:39:50] they're not throwing seed oils on top of those carbohydrates, which again is [00:39:55] acting to blunt insulin at the cellular level to do what it needs to do to bring the blood sugar [00:40:00] down, and all of a sudden that person starts losing weight, and then there you go, so to the question of a person that's four [00:40:05] to six percent body fat is the best thing.
We can't really say probably at this point, but for someone [00:40:10] again to get them down to where they can be metabolically flexible and use all those [00:40:15] things like all of us do, I think it's a good thing. And I've just seen so many people that [00:40:20] thousands of people we've coached and help peptides. They come in the world peptides to use [00:40:25] peptides to lose body fat, and they have no conception that their diet and lifestyle could have [00:40:30] anything to do with it.
And then all of a sudden they're like, well, I'm using this peptide and it's not working [00:40:35] yet. They're eating 300 grams of fat. With no carbs and they have no conception [00:40:40] about the thyroid is doing or even the energy to get off the couch and
Speaker 4: We should we should definitely cover [00:40:45] deeper. I know you probably will like glps and like what's
Speaker: going wrong Well, we'll definitely get into [00:40:50] that and i've done several shows on those Back when the very first study came [00:40:55] out on using them for weight loss.
I had the lead researcher on the show I I kind of i'm i'm a [00:41:00] futurist, right? Yeah, so i'm like these are going to be really big Yeah. So, uh, we talked about it [00:41:05] and I said, these are longevity drugs, right? JLP 100%. They just have [00:41:10] to be just very, very differently. And
Speaker 4: I've [00:41:15]
Speaker: used, I used one injection for that podcast and I haven't used [00:41:20] any of any of them at all.
With the body comp I have now, other than the [00:41:25] last couple months I've experimented with micro micro [00:41:30] dosing, a third generation JLP. GLP 3! GLP [00:41:35] 3. And, uh, you know, the thing is, I, every time I do it, even at very, [00:41:40] very low doses, I just feel like crap. Like, like, I, I don't enjoy that. So for [00:41:45] me, the things that make me live longer, I'd like to like my life while I live longer.
And I'm not sure I'm going to keep doing that. [00:41:50] Why do
Speaker 2: you think that is? Or speculate why? Yeah. Is it bad? Well, the, the third stage one we're [00:41:55] talking about tends to have a little bit more, uh, Of that effect. Now, [00:42:00] everyone's gonna be different. You're, you're on the ball with all that. Well, you're so lead to.[00:42:05]
Yeah. And, and so that too, it could be one of those things that is just almost your metabolism is already [00:42:10] high. So it could even be driving into the point of almost like a metabolic fatigue. Does it disturb your
Speaker: [00:42:15] sleep? I haven't noticed that a distraction, [00:42:20] what
Speaker 2: I see in the general public a lot of times, because that is a very common thing [00:42:25] is especially with the third, the third prong, which is the glucagon ramping [00:42:30] metabolism, what happens a lot of times.
And again, this happens with a lot of other peptides and even the hormone therapy for a lot [00:42:35] of people, all of a sudden you take someone, okay, my base metabolic rates, maybe 1800 calories. Now [00:42:40] all of a sudden it's 23 20 to a hundred. That's so powerful to the body. The [00:42:45] body is depleting electrolytes at such a fast rate and 80 percent of people are deficient [00:42:50] magnesium to begin with And then you introduce a very powerful metabolic modulator [00:42:55] on top of that all of a sudden you're burning through minerals like crazy now So what I always tell [00:43:00] people whatever amount of magnesium and electrolytes you're taking you probably not enough [00:43:05] Yeah, you probably need three to four times that when thanks for using a gop And then another thing too just [00:43:10] and I don't know if you experienced this is some people uh get a racing heart You When they're taking these and [00:43:15] again, think about it.
It's, it's helping raise metabolism, which is driving the nervous system. And [00:43:20] when you're depleted electric, the electrolytes are not there to help the electrochemical signaling [00:43:25] between cells. And if you introduce, and I know this is a higher dose, but 5 to 10 grams of Taurine and [00:43:30] people, I have heard hundreds, if not thousands of people report back to me.
Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. [00:43:35] Now my heart is back to a normal level. And again, it's because it's They were depleted to begin with, but then they introduced [00:43:40] this metabolic stimulation on top of it. And now all of a sudden they're fatigued. Same thing. If you're fasting in the [00:43:45] afternoon, imagine dry fasting.
You've ever dry fasted for 18 or 20 hours by the afternoon. You're [00:43:50] dead again because you're, you know, like Well, you just have a
Speaker: little blood volume too. So your brain has [00:43:55] no oxygen. I can't
Speaker 4: I can't him and I Took played around with the repeat, you know fasting protocols of [00:44:00] dry fasting and they're great Right
Speaker: is half genius and half absolutely batshit crazy [00:44:05] on So it's, it's a little dangerous to go down that path.
I
Speaker 4: mean, well, the truth is, is like, if you, if you're [00:44:10] dry fasting, like it should be for cancer wasting, you know, [00:44:15] something where there's a need for it for people like us. Fasting is amazing for the autophagy, removing [00:44:20] sedescent cells, the hormetic effect. But in truth, obviously we need. The [00:44:25] electrolytes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You cannot fast without electrolytes and not expect to feel bad.
Speaker: Although [00:44:30] I did have, oh geez, I had a guy on who's doing 40 day fasts with only [00:44:35] water and no electrolytes.
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
Speaker: I think that's nuts. No,
Speaker 4: that's not too much [00:44:40] muscle.
Speaker: No, this, this is actually a clinic down in Southern California. I'm trying to remember his name off the top of my [00:44:45] head.
It got 1300 episodes in even with all the smart drugs. Sometimes I'm like, who was that? Yeah. [00:44:50] But, um, Um, so there are people who can do stuff, but he has, you know, test twice a day and it makes people [00:44:55] stop. So you, the human body is capable of all sorts of weird stuff. No doubt. But I, I like your take on dry [00:45:00] fasting.
And the thing about electrolytes, there's a reason we used to paste soldiers in [00:45:05] salt. They're just so critically important. And I, the first talk I ever gave on health [00:45:10] publicly was on the need for more salt. Yeah. Low salt diets create all sorts of [00:45:15] metabolic harm. So I, I, unlimited salt, I probably am at 8 [00:45:20] grams, maybe 10 some days, and I, it, it's absolutely life changing.
I've been that way for a long time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, are you cooking most of [00:45:25] your food with salt?
Speaker: I cook my food with salt. I add salt to my water or electrolytes, and I take a lot [00:45:30] of magnesium. I also take a lot of potassium, and anyone who wants to live a long time, there's a reason That's awesome. [00:45:35] There's all these sexy longevity peptides.
You guys make with subgrade labs and my [00:45:40] company. I focus on vitamin Dake and minerals one on one and I put trace minerals [00:45:45] and electrolytes in danger coffee because those are the most foundational and there's all kinds of sexy stuff to layer on top. I don't have to [00:45:50] make all the sexy stuff. I just find people were making good stuff and like, come on the show.
Let's let's talk. Uh, but I [00:45:55] love it. You're talking about foundationals and without those, even [00:46:00] testosterone doesn't work, right? Exactly. So I want to get back to [00:46:05] estrogen and I want to talk about some more of the interesting peptides that you guys have come out with orally. [00:46:10] Every guy in my family has man boobs.
Uh, and I was really ashamed of this [00:46:15] when I was even a teenager. I had these, my grandfather, uh, when he was 70 something, he's like, you know, [00:46:20] he goes, it sounds weird, but I just got tired of him hanging down. He's like, I'm just going to put a bra on. I'm [00:46:25] not joking. Wow. He's like, man, now they don't hurt anymore.
Cause I mean, if you have the genetics for man, [00:46:30] it sucks. It's horrible. And I've talked with, you know, a list celebrities have had the surgery to get their [00:46:35] glands taken out. So they look good. I don't have man boobs anymore because [00:46:40] of all this. And I control my estrogen levels and I use sometimes chrism, [00:46:45] although not anymore, I don't need it.
I used to, which is an herb that blocks it. Yep. And if I [00:46:50] notice I'm getting them, I will take calcium D glucorate, which increases estrogen excretion [00:46:55] and microplastics and much other stuff,
Speaker 4: right?
Speaker: Wrote about that in a couple of my books. It's like, it's an [00:47:00] important detox pathway. So yay. No man boobs. You guys just got a protocol for [00:47:05] that.
But when you are using testosterone, which I've been on since I was 26 with the [00:47:10] exception of a couple of years of experimenting when I was doing the Bulletproof diet. There's always [00:47:15] a risk that it's going to it's a risk. It's [00:47:20] going to go down and that the comments want to make down the bullet for 10 diet.[00:47:25]
Yeah, but by the way, yeah, you guys know I'm not with that company anymore. [00:47:30] I will say though that. People lost millions of pounds on it. It kind of worked.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker: But the [00:47:35] man boob thing, dude! It, being free of that was, was [00:47:40] surprisingly life changing. And I wouldn't have wanted to be on the cover of my last book of my shirt off if I had, you know, [00:47:45] a nice set of A cups, which was a meaningful part of my life.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker: So, what do you recommend [00:47:50] for people on testosterone? Um, from a peptide [00:47:55] perspective, from just nutrients, pharmaceuticals, what's the man boob protocol? [00:48:00] So
Speaker 4: this is a great question, and I'm glad you brought all that up because everything you're doing is right. And 95 percent of people that [00:48:05] talk about using therapeutic testosterone and trying to suppress estrogen or block it or do [00:48:10] all that are all wrong, obviously from biological, um, [00:48:15] Dr.
Anthony J. I think you know him, you know, shout out to Dr. Anthony J. So he came on and did a live stream with me [00:48:20] back in 2017. Now, just for the record, I've had both of my breasts. I've had all the [00:48:25] glandular tissue taken out. Yep. 2016. I had it taken out, [00:48:30] uh, with Dr. Joseph Cruz is like one of the world's leading gyno surgeons in, uh, Newport beach, [00:48:35] California.
And then I had this, uh, brass in 2023 with my surgeon. He's an [00:48:40] amazing guy in Playa del Carmen, Mexico. And both of them. Incredible [00:48:45] jobs. Like if I took my shirt off right now, you can't even see the scar, but this is important. Why I'm saying this is that, [00:48:50] cause you know, this, a lot of people don't know this, that gyno is a genetic condition.
It [00:48:55] is 62 to 63%. Again, Corden, Dr. J have this [00:49:00] predisposition. They code for the gyno gene. No matter what you do, if you code for the gene, whether you take [00:49:05] therapeutic testosterone or not, whether you use these stupid masking drugs that bodybuilders and [00:49:10] performance athletes use like serms and a eyes, yes, all these, they're terrible.
[00:49:15] They're toxic. Women's breast cancer drugs should never use them. Yes, you can [00:49:20] mask the presentation of gyno if you have the gene by using those drugs. But as you know, [00:49:25] it's not solving it. It's important that people know that the only. Procedure [00:49:30] unless you're a miracle like you and somehow you've done all the things you've done to your body is to have it surgically Removed [00:49:35] which for most men is worth it because as you know, it's painful.
It's [00:49:40] unsightly It's all these things but to back to estrogen and testosterone and you can pick up on [00:49:45] this is Most men today who have been using therapeutic testosterone for a long time, [00:49:50] literally, I'm not kidding you, Dave, have what we call either testosterone or estrogen resistance syndrome. [00:49:55] And that's for the exact reasons that you said, our environment is an absolute [00:50:00] toxin load, chemical assault of all these horrible things, endocrine disrupting chemicals, everything.
[00:50:05] And so now what's happening is men can't absorb testosterone [00:50:10] or estrogen at the tissue level like they could 20 or 30 years ago when we didn't have all this [00:50:15] toxic siege. So we are finding now, and again, this is super experimental stuff. A lot of [00:50:20] people in the fitness slash testosterone, just call it health optimization arena are [00:50:25] experimenting as men with very, very low micro doses of estrogen for sexual [00:50:30] function for brain function, health for better bone mineral density, better skin.
Hunter and I [00:50:35] have been using one milligram of estrogen injected. And this is by the way, estradiol siponate.
Speaker: I was [00:50:40] going to ask which form
Speaker 4: estradiol siponate. We've been injecting it with our testosterone, you know, our TRT [00:50:45] shots. It's a game changer.
Speaker: What's a week?
Speaker 4: No, you can take it like, so [00:50:50] if you're, I mean, you could put it into your TRT shots and say, you're taking two or three shots a week for your [00:50:55] TRT.
You could put it in the back of it, but I've been just injecting it by itself. Right. With a 31 gauge [00:51:00] insulin needle. I'm not kidding you. He can have beaten back on this. It's a game changer. One milligram once a [00:51:05] week. No, one milligram, three times a week, up to one milligram, right? So you have to figure out [00:51:10] your unique dosage, but better heart, better erections.
I mean, insane erections. [00:51:15] Better just well being. I mean, it's instant, right? It hits in like 30
Speaker: minutes. Estradiol Cypionate. Estradiol
Speaker 4: [00:51:20] Cypionate. It's amazing for guys who have been on long term TRT. I'll play around with that. Who've [00:51:25] lost the cell. Yeah, we'll get you some of it. So
Speaker 2: we came into this in a really [00:51:30] roundabout way because Last year, Jay and I started experimenting with bioidentical DHT [00:51:35] injections in addition.
This is so fun.
Speaker: But your hair, your head is shaved, I just want to say, but it looks like you have [00:51:40] hair under
Speaker 4: this. So no, so I've had, uh, I have genetic predisposition. It's a androgenetic alopecia, but [00:51:45] my hair started to thin way before I did any of this. This was when I was 44. I used to have massive, like, [00:51:50] hair pushed up.
But my mom's dad was bald. So like I know that I have the genetic predisposition to [00:51:55] it. Uh, and I do grow my hair out. I still have it, but it's patchy. So I just, my wife likes it like this [00:52:00] now. But, um, but getting back to DHT.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we started playing around with introducing a little [00:52:05] bit of DHT in addition to our testosterone.
And that's really so cool. I [00:52:10] love this. It's really, it's really cool about you are going to love this is. In the first few weeks, you [00:52:15] literally feel like a guy. Dude. It's insane. You get the neuro stimulation, the sexual [00:52:20] stimulation, but what happens is we were actually using DHT and Nante. So it's a longer [00:52:25] acting form of DHT over time.
What happens is it's so powerful. It actually [00:52:30] suppresses estrogen. So you have this like four to eight week window where you feel [00:52:35] amazing. And then all of a sudden things start to go downhill. And then we got blood tests done It was [00:52:40] like, okay. DHT through the roof. Estrogen cranked. It's good for [00:52:45] a few weeks.
Not good long term. And so we just kind of went through like, okay, how could we play with this as a different [00:52:50] ester? Maybe because if you have an anthate ester, it's in the body longer. And so it's not clearing as [00:52:55] fast as maybe like appropriate. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 2: So we were like, okay, is it, is [00:53:00] it 10 to 1 testosterone to DHT?
We kind of landed. It was probably like 20 to 1 testosterone to [00:53:05] DHT, like the amount of Testosterone you would have to DHT to where you wouldn't get estrogen [00:53:10] suppressive effects. And then Jared and I, okay, well, we're getting this estrogen suppressive effect. We know [00:53:15] Estrogen at the right levels is healthy for men because you have bottomed out.
Estrogen is [00:53:20] worse than high estrogen
Speaker: and to be really clear Estrogen improves [00:53:25] cardiac function up to a level so guys with lots of estrogen are probably gonna end [00:53:30] up, you know, wearing mini skirts It
Speaker 4: changes your brain. Remember the fatter you [00:53:35] are the more your
Speaker: aromatase Which is why when I was really obese my testosterone was lower than my mom.
[00:53:40] Exactly. Yeah, correct. Yeah,
Speaker 2: correct And so we're like, okay both jay and I You pretty lean, like [00:53:45] maybe we can play around with adding in estrogen to the mix and see a very small amount, see [00:53:50] what it is. And so we found some estrogen and started playing with it and we're like, okay. And I just started [00:53:55] at one milligram total for the week.
So I'd actually break that one milligram up into like 0. 3. Sure. [00:54:00] You want to be careful with this? Exactly. Yeah. And I was like, wow, this is actually has like a [00:54:05] huge benefit. And I got my blood work done. And again, J and I, when, so I'll just say this, when [00:54:10] I use TRT at 200 milligrams, per week. My estrogen really is somewhere like in [00:54:15] the low twenties.
So it's not really exactly because I'm leaner. And again, my [00:54:20] total testosterone usually on that is somewhere around like 900 to a thousand. And then my free would typically [00:54:25] be around like 35 on that dose. Now, when I introduced [00:54:30] estrogen and then up to three milligrams per week, brought my estrogen into the forties.
And what I noticed is [00:54:35] sex drive was much, much better. Cognition was much, much better. How old are [00:54:40] you? 32
Speaker: 30. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, sex drive waning at 32. [00:54:45]
Speaker 2: It wasn't, but with the DHT suppressing estrogen, then I [00:54:50] noticed then it was like, okay. And again, testosterone by itself. It was fine. And [00:54:55] also to, I think men that have been on testosterone for a longer time, probably [00:55:00] 25
Speaker: years of
Speaker 2: it.
Yeah, exactly. It's not that you're, it's not [00:55:05] your libido is low, okay. Yeah. But you know that you have the potential to probably [00:55:10] operate at a little bit higher level based on where you've been before, and [00:55:15] obviously, too.
Speaker: There's a level when you're like 23. Yeah. I got to hit that. Yeah. [00:55:20] You know, and it's, it's very present.
And now it's like switchable, right? Sure. Like, [00:55:25] okay, like, let's, let's go.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker: Right. But it's not like a constant thing. And [00:55:30] I. I am absolutely convinced that libido is an expression of chief of [00:55:35] life force energy. You want to start a company and be horny all the time, like it works like that. You want to do [00:55:40] something good in the world, like don't, don't deplete that,
Speaker 5: right?
Speaker: So it seems important. And [00:55:45] it's funny. The sole conversation is who would have thought? Men and [00:55:50] women both have estrogen and testosterone, and they're both important, and that for guys [00:55:55] we only talk about T, and we ignore estrogen, and for women we talk about estrogen and we ignore T,
Speaker 4: and it's dumb. [00:56:00] No, well let's talk about that because that's one of the biggest topics that we talk about now is like teaching the importance of, [00:56:05] teaching women the importance of, perimenopause, uh, pre and post [00:56:10] testosterone is more important to them.
One of my mentors used to say to me that giving a [00:56:15] woman hormones is like giving a dry plant water.
Speaker: Oh, a hundred percent. It changes their lives so [00:56:20] much.
Speaker 4: Everything. So like all these women that listen to this podcast or listen to us [00:56:25] who are with, unfortunately, doctors who are not giving them testosterone because you see a lot of them [00:56:30] giving them progesterone not it's so insane because [00:56:35] A perimenopausal or postmenopausal woman, all they really honestly need, and again, we're all different, but [00:56:40] is a good bolus of testosterone because, as you know, it cleaves into the estrogen that they're [00:56:45] not making it.
Speaker: So that's where most, they probably need DHEA and pregnenolone as well.
Speaker 4: [00:56:50] All of those things. Yeah. The, the, the, the, the. Of course, pregnenolone. And there's other things that we're not even [00:56:55] talking about that again, depending on your biomarkers and what your labs indicate you could use. But [00:57:00] we see too many women do don't get therapeutic testosterone.
And that is a big mistake.
Speaker: [00:57:05] Yeah, huge mistake. If you're on hormones. You need to look at all of the hormones and the [00:57:10] precursors, which are DHEA and pregnant alone. And then look at the [00:57:15] different estrogens, estrone, estradiol, and then testosterone. And I think men and [00:57:20] women need to look at both of those without a doubt.
And, and there are lots of genetic differences [00:57:25] as well where, uh, for me, for the vast majority of my life, even just a [00:57:30] small dose of DHEA, absolute elimination of libido. Yeah, [00:57:35] right.
Speaker 4: I've honestly, very truthfully, I've never in my entire life taken SDHA. I've always [00:57:40] had, when I tested, I always had like 60, 70, like mid range, and I've always [00:57:45] been that guy, like, if I don't have an actual corresponding indication that I'm low, why would [00:57:50] I take it?
Speaker: My levels were at zero. Wow. Like, literally no DHA on the lab [00:57:55] tests, below detectable limits, yet when I take it, I feel like crap.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Right? I'm like, what is going on the [00:58:00] way we are.
Speaker: Right. So different people are different ways. And with all the stuff I've done [00:58:05] around longevity, I actually do take DHA now and it works just fine.
Speaker 4: Yes, I know. Did you take it like an oral or just [00:58:10] a
Speaker: I do oil suspended oral drops. I'm doing like maybe 20.
Speaker 4: Same [00:58:15] thing with pregnenolone?
Speaker: I don't take pregnenolone. It gives me man boobs every time. Wow, there you [00:58:20] go. So like you gotta, you gotta figure it out. And for most people, it's like, good God, that's really complex.[00:58:25]
And there's only like six hormones that matter. You can, [00:58:30] you can go to the AXO health, uh, app that said upgrade [00:58:35] labs, go to upgrade labs. com. There's a link to AXO on there and we'll send somebody to your house to get your labs [00:58:40] drawn. Then you have the numbers and you can go to your doctor. Like I got my numbers and maybe you don't need to go to the doctor cause you're fine.
Or [00:58:45] maybe you're saying, screw that noise. I'll just order what I want online because I want to save money. Exactly. Uh, [00:58:50] and I think we have a right to do that. Especially when it comes to things like like peptides. Now, [00:58:55] let's talk about supporting hormones with peptides. Yeah. So what's going to support [00:59:00] testosterone, estrogen, DHT function in [00:59:05] adults, men and women.
Speaker 4: So there's some amazing we'll talk about all of them, right? So there's And, and, and we don't [00:59:10] have these peptides of bio longevity labs. Ah, but we do have the bio regulators. But there's, there's [00:59:15] a couple that should be mentioned and that is do my brain just melted down. Gona, [00:59:20] gunna, and what's the other one?
Kiss. Pepin. Kisspeptin. Do we sell Kisspeptin or no? I can't remember. I [00:59:25] think we do have kids. I think we do. Anyway, both of them. So here's the thing. Here's the [00:59:30] problem with these two. They're comparable to like HCG or HMG, right? As far [00:59:35] as from an injectable standpoint, but all the research in them shows that you have to inject yourself two or three times [00:59:40] a day to get the same impact that you would get with injecting HMG or HCG [00:59:45] every other day during a week, again, to maintain fertility, FSH, LH.
So I'm not too [00:59:50] super on those, but. The bioregulators, which as you already mentioned, let me, let me
Speaker: translate what you [00:59:55] just said for, for listeners, because I, I love that you're just ripping through it. [01:00:00] So if you take testosterone for long periods of time and you're not [01:00:05] controlling estrogen and doing some of the blocking strategies or some of these other things, you will get small balls [01:00:10] because hormones called LH and FSH go down.
They independently are markers of [01:00:15] longevity. You do not want to have them low. And you'll be infertile if they go low. [01:00:20] So the strategies for that are the old school breast cancer drugs like Arimidex and Clomid, which [01:00:25] I took in my 20s because I was on testosterone. Thankfully, I was still fertile, but they come with a downside.
[01:00:30] Don't take those anymore. And then you can do HCG, which is a what [01:00:35] was it? A hormone or peptide that's made? What is it?
Speaker 4: It's a, it's a hormone. It's a hormone. Yeah,
Speaker: [01:00:40] it's a hormone. Uh, and it's made in pregnancy, but taking micro doses of it for guys [01:00:45] preserves testicular volume, keeps those things high. Yes.
So it's, it's relatively [01:00:50] complex, but it's not crazy complex. It's just a small flow chart.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker: And. [01:00:55] So HCG is one way to do that. Is that your preferred way to maintain testicular volume?
Speaker 4: Combination of, of [01:01:00] that with HMG, if you want to make sure that you get pregnant, because you need human menopausal [01:01:05] gonotropin with HCG or human chorionic gonotropin, just have that combination of [01:01:10] both FAC and LH are stimulated enough that you get modal.
Speaker: Maybe I should try that. [01:01:15] So I tried HCG, uh, this has to be like nine, 10 [01:01:20] years ago. Sure. And I was, you know, under a doctor's care and. I'm not going to name [01:01:25] him because this is funny and he's a good friend. And I injected this and [01:01:30] over the course of maybe 60 days, I would say, of taking normal doses of HDG [01:01:35] for testosterone.
I grew boobs and a round ass. My body thought I was pregnant [01:01:40] and it was the most horrible. What is going on? I go into his office. He's like, I've never seen this before. [01:01:45] Stop right away. I'm like, yeah, I'm stopping. Like, well, what is going on? Thankfully I did, you know, those went away, but it [01:01:50] was, it was bizarre.
I mean, they really are women's fertility medications. So [01:01:55] I, I'm like, I'm a little leery of HCG, but is that common?
Speaker 2: It depends on the person [01:02:00] expression and kind of going back to the estrogen conversation. We all express these things [01:02:05] differently. And so someone takes a little microdose of HGG. They might not even notice anything, [01:02:10] but someone else can take it and they have what is typically like the high estrogen, what you were experiencing of the [01:02:15] man boobs and everything else.
It expresses a lot differently. So it really is a dose [01:02:20] dependent thing. Now, in that case, and this is where peptides are really cool. We can get [01:02:25] into maybe a Kispeptin or gonadalraline conversation. But also too, there's bioregulators now [01:02:30] that have been,
Speaker: I've used your, your Russian bioregulators, uh, testo [01:02:35] lutein, and I noticed a difference in libido from that stuff for 100 percent and libidon, which is the effect.
I'm [01:02:40] out right now. So, but you want to cycle it anyway. So, yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 2: a stash. [01:02:45] But, uh, what's interesting about testo lutein is in men that were not on [01:02:50] testosterone therapy in the Russian literature, on average, I think, They had a pretty big patient population. [01:02:55] It increased the average mean testosterone, I think was around 320 total to [01:03:00] around 550.
So this is just two pills a day. Exactly. After three [01:03:05] days.
Speaker: After three days. And these are the Russian bioregulators. And you could stack those with injecting [01:03:10] testosterone. And you can stack them even with oral testosterone. That's what we
Speaker 4: actually like. And then make sure you mention
Speaker 2: [01:03:15] testogen too. Well, yeah, there's an injectable form of testalutin.
Oh, I got to get that. Yeah. You guys saw that? [01:03:20] Yep. Yeah. But you have like two skews a week. [01:03:25] Jesus. It's it feels like that.
Speaker: Sorry. Well, I, I appreciate that [01:03:30] it's available. So thank you. But
Speaker 2: to the LH and FSH conversation, which testalutin and testogen would [01:03:35] do again for guys not on testosterone, it's going to help bump those up and you see that in the, in the data.[01:03:40]
Speaker: Let me just be really straightforward. If you are a male and you are alive, you probably should be doing this [01:03:45] because all men are low T right now. Guys. So just, there we go. And what's the test
Speaker 2: to Luton? Yes. Test to [01:03:50] Luton is the oral version and then testogen would be the injectable form of test to Luton.
[01:03:55] But like you said, if you're a man walking the planet right now, whether you're 17 or 77, you [01:04:00] can benefit from that again because of the environmental dilute and replicate. Okay.
Speaker: We got it. I got it for [01:04:05] something in here. Bio longevity labs. com as you might expect to use code Dave [01:04:10] and you can order that stuff.
It's a, it's a good idea. And, uh, you probably [01:04:15] also need testosterone to be clear, but you might as well start with that stuff. It's literally two pills a day and it's easy.
Speaker 4: I [01:04:20] like what you just said though, because this is a kind of our new thing that we're attempting to do. And it sounds like you'll be with [01:04:25] us is taking testogen and testalutin along with therapeutic testosterone and [01:04:30] seeing how much more it optimizes your endocrine system because Again, all the Russian research and studies [01:04:35] show that it's optimizing what you naturally already are producing.
So you're on [01:04:40] therapeutic testosterone and as you know, you're shut down exogenously or from the exogenous administration. [01:04:45] Why not take something that's going to actually increase your natural production too? So you can have the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2: I think that's, [01:04:50] well, what I have seen is that Tessalutin and testogen do what HCG [01:04:55] is intended to do from a pharmaceutical perspective without the disruption without the effects that [01:05:00] you had so they do it better
Speaker: interesting.
So
Speaker 2: that's what I've seen again in practice. I don't know [01:05:05] blood marker speaking, but if you look at LH and FSH, you get the bumps that [01:05:10] HCG and HMG tended to do from that. But again, we're doing [01:05:15] it with an amino acid sequence that is just stimulating the pituitary. I
Speaker: [01:05:20] hate cycling stuff because it just takes a lot of organization.
Yeah. And I'll show you guys [01:05:25] my supplement room at this point. It's a wall this big, just covering supplements. [01:05:30] And I do 150 a day and I don't have a problem with that. Most of the sense beyond the [01:05:35] planet, maybe more expensive than yours. And I'm super happy with that. Yeah. Um, and in fact, some [01:05:40] people like to use my urine in their byline protocol.
And like, I, I respect that, [01:05:45] you know, if they're into that, I'm not going to. Is there a discount code for
Speaker 5: [01:05:50] that?
Speaker: I don't understand what's so [01:05:55] funny. I mean, clearly this guy's got an obsession with my urine and I'm respecting his [01:06:00] identity and all that stuff like that. That's all good.[01:06:05]
I do want to ask though, like there are some people Um, who [01:06:10] get into like the extreme low carb or extreme vegan or like an angry [01:06:15] PhD who just yells at people all the time online. What do you think is the, the [01:06:20] hormone or nutrient imbalance that makes them that angry or is it just childhood trauma?
Childhood
Speaker 2: [01:06:25] trauma.
Speaker: You think so? I think so, too.
Speaker 2: Childhood trauma. I think, I think a lot of people, [01:06:30] too, myself included, if you are in the health space or the fitness [01:06:35] space, there's a sense of body dysmorphia and we may, there's probably a spectrum.
Speaker 5: Oh, [01:06:40] for sure. That we
Speaker 2: have it. And to go back to the childhood trauma, and Jay and I talk about this a lot [01:06:45] in our coaching Yeah.
Of, of really getting comfortable. Yeah. And none of us are, I'm [01:06:50] not even saying like, I'm there because this is a journey in life, but really getting comfortable and loving [01:06:55] who you are. And I think people care for that. Yeah. And people that attack people [01:07:00] online, because we all, we all see it. And if you put yourself out there, you're, you're going to have that is [01:07:05] saying that like, what I put out into the world is meant to help people [01:07:10] rather than pull people down.
And it's, it's fun to joke and stuff. But I think. People that make [01:07:15] their, their stick about that, again, I understand that it gets views and everyone's trying to make a [01:07:20] living, but it really probably comes from a place to like when they look in the mirror and [01:07:25] say, like, Who's Dave? Who's on? Who's Jay? Do you like what you see?
And that's not anything that [01:07:30] can really fix.
Speaker: I think it's mostly bullying. They were bullied and they got stuck in that [01:07:35] trauma and they grew up and yeah, yeah. Like it's unnecessary. Like there are things where we probably [01:07:40] disagree, right? And, and that means you're a bad person and I should misstate your argument, make it [01:07:45] simple.
And then like, Or we could just be adults and be like, that's interesting, you know, maybe [01:07:50] I don't want to inject estrogen, but I don't think you're a bad person because you tried it, right? And that level of [01:07:55] maturity, I know some of it is biological, right? If your brain is trash, your [01:08:00] thyroid is low, if your T is too high and imbalanced, that can increase anger, but you're not going to get ROID [01:08:05] rage.
That's made up nonsense from synthetic 70s stuff. So, having a balanced [01:08:10] metabolism and working mitochondria equals better emotional regulation, so you can do the work, [01:08:15] and that's, my latest book is all about that stuff, but I do want to know, okay, [01:08:20] so let's say that you know someone who has a bit of an anger issue, you know, can't handle criticism, criticize other [01:08:25] people all the time and there's a lot of people with this going on, not just in the online [01:08:30] health space.
What is the peptide stack to chill the fuck out?
Speaker 2: It's [01:08:35] Melanotan 1 for sure.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: Funny enough, Melanotan 1 actually does help with that. I can see that. Again, of [01:08:40] everything that we were talking about before. And
Speaker: you guys sell that, but it has to be injected, right? It's not oral yet? [01:08:45] Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think you If someone could make that an oral, you'd be a trillionaire.
Yeah. I
Speaker 4: don't think that because of the [01:08:50] way that works. Yeah. You can cross to the blood brain barrier. I don't think you can make that oral. Okay. But we do have to get to [01:08:55] The strip technology that's coming. So that's the really good news. Dave is that [01:09:00] right now We're in as you know, the golden age of all of these amazing like biotech [01:09:05] biochemical Uh ingredients and and technologies and stuff like that But we're working with a company which we [01:09:10] can't really name right now who has An incredible patented form of oral [01:09:15] buccal strips of peptides.
Right now she has seven, correct? Sweet. And, and she's [01:09:20] wanting and not wanting is desiring. And she said, she's very soon to make it happen. GLP is an [01:09:25] oral. So imagine what that will do, right? And her claim is, [01:09:30] and again, we have not used these yet right now. She's going to, of course, be here this week. So you will meet her.
but [01:09:35] she says that there's 60, somewhere between 60 and 65% as efficacious as an injectable. [01:09:40] And she says that all the injectables, nothing is over 89%. So that's not bad [01:09:45]
Speaker: that, and
Speaker 4: look, I don't, if something's only half as good, orally take twice as
Speaker: much. If nothing's pretty easy for that. [01:09:50] Right, exactly.
Exactly. So
Speaker 4: that's coming. But what else did you say? SS 31 [01:09:55] and C max and
Speaker 2: so like, yeah, now some people [01:10:00] respond better to it. We actually have. So I've played around a lot with those. [01:10:05] There's regular C max and regular slink. And there's actually what's called an in a seattle ammodate version.
Speaker: [01:10:10] Right.
Speaker 2: Yes. I've used those.
Yeah. And those, in my experience, personally, I respond, nasal spray or injectable [01:10:15] or, or either one you can do nasal spray or injected. I prefer the injection, but some people like the nasal [01:10:20] spray. Some people don't put things up their nose, bro.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. [01:10:25] I, I, I don't have a problem with that. I hop is my friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah. [01:10:30] But to Jay's point, SS31, anything where we improve mitochondrial [01:10:35] health, I think it just kind of helps clear a lot of the nasty gunk.
Speaker: A [01:10:40] lot of the trauma sits in mitochondrial networks. Yes, it
Speaker 2: does.
Speaker: And, uh, you know, the whole framework [01:10:45] for trauma resolution that I use at 40 Years of Zen is that it's very low down.
It's actually a pre processing of [01:10:50] reality that makes you feel angry. So, if someone disagrees with you, you get a huge wave of emotion from [01:10:55] your body. Right. You know, there was that time, you know, the bully in fifth grade or my daddy or whatever disagreed with [01:11:00] me. And I felt unsafe. So now somebody's excusing me.
I feel unsafe. So I lash out and you're like [01:11:05] If you have, you know, a following on social, you have a moral obligation to chill out. [01:11:10] Right. And bring good stuff into the world. And I don't care if who builds followers, they're not the followers you want. No, exactly. [01:11:15] Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, what do you think of, because you asked us about that.
What do you think of SS 31? It's one of my favorite peptides now it's [01:11:20] like an amplifier peptide.
Speaker: SS 31 is really interesting. Yeah. And I've probably used three vials of [01:11:25] it, but it. feels mitochondrial and which is a weird thing to say, but once, [01:11:30] you know, because I had a chronic fatigue syndrome, like, like once, you know, the [01:11:35] feeling of having really low mitochondrial function, it's nasty.
And then the [01:11:40] brightening effect that happens when your mitochondria turn back on, it definitely does that. And, you know, [01:11:45] And you, I find it makes meditation also work better.
Speaker 4: I think so, too. Well, I [01:11:50] mean, to that point, though, and again, you can speak to this firsthand. And by the way, obesity runs in my [01:11:55] family, too.
My mom died two years ago. She was morbidly obese. She [01:12:00] died. Of course, the hospital diagnosis was COVID. She was obviously comorbid and [01:12:05] metabolically drowned. But here's the thing. People who are obese and insulin resistant. [01:12:10] They don't have mitochondria functioning, right? Like, they don't even know what it's like to have mitochondria.
Speaker: They've [01:12:15] never felt as good as they can feel. Exactly. It's funny, the [01:12:20] tagline for Danger Coffee, Who Knows What You Might Do? It's like, you have no idea [01:12:25] what's in there. I didn't. I thought everyone felt like I
Speaker 4: did. Their default state is [01:12:30] suffering.
Speaker: It's totally true. And I, I really believe that biohacking can get people out [01:12:35] of, I agree, biological suffering.
Yes. So that you have enough energy to work on all of the [01:12:40] trauma suffering that you also have to. If
Speaker 2: you think about it too, there's like a low energy state, [01:12:45] everyone that's familiar with David Hawkins map of consciousness. If you actually map that out to what that looks [01:12:50] like, Low energy, fear, anxious, anxiety, depression, all those mitochondrial
Speaker: [01:12:55] behaviors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think how hard it is to roll the rock up the hill to overcome that if your [01:13:00] mitochondria are frying on. If you have low testosterone, you have some of the brain fog and all these things, not [01:13:05] impossible, but how much easier is it to do? And then the results are
Speaker 4: that's why [01:13:10] a heavy person, man or woman.
If they really do want to change their life of [01:13:15] mitochondria optimizing peptide, like MOTC, SS31, a 5 amino, by the way, injectable 5 [01:13:20] amino. Have you tried that yet? That's pretty amazing.
Speaker: I've only taken it
Speaker 4: orally. Oh, no. Injectable. We've got to do injectable [01:13:25] stuff. Really powerful stuff. In fact, we'll tell them.
And then NAD. So we're making a custom [01:13:30] blend. We can say that here, right? NAD, [01:13:35] MOTC, and 5 amino injectable in one blend. He's experimenting with it. Dude, it will [01:13:40] be the ultimate inflamed person's peptide because it will fire [01:13:45] on their mitochondrial. They will have energy to train. They'll have energy to change their life, to turn it around, start eating better and [01:13:50] make healthier choices, but that will be a super rockstar peptide blend.
Speaker: I [01:13:55] cannot wait to try it. I got to ask you this. So, uh, Elizabeth Ureth is a, [01:14:00] is a friend, and just a really great longevity doctor. Amazing. And she'll [01:14:05] tell you straight up, like, don't mix peptides, uh, inject them all separately in separate syringes. [01:14:10] And I just don't like throwing away that much plastic and I kind of like to mix them.
So what's your take on [01:14:15] the pros and cons of doing multiple peptides in a single syringe?
Speaker 4: So there are, there are what [01:14:20] are known as cross chain linking reactions, right? For certain peptides. So, [01:14:25] yes. She's kind of right kind of not what I mean by that is like what we just created [01:14:30] if you're used if you're just targeting one system the mitochondria and you're going to use a bunch of [01:14:35] mitochondria optimizing peptides again like an ad plus like a ss 31 a mot [01:14:40] C or what's the other one the jack will find me know that's That's not going to cause an [01:14:45] issue like, like injecting a GLP one with a growth hormone agonist peptide and throwing in a mitochondrial optimizing [01:14:50] peptide.
You shouldn't do that. So that's where she's right. But like, if you're just starting [01:14:55] one organ system or just targeting the mitochondria or just targeting growth hormone agonism, then it's [01:15:00] okay to mix like a TESA CJC and a TESA or CJC. And it's somewhere
Speaker: [01:15:05] mixable that
Speaker 4: it makes sense, but you shouldn't, she's right.
A hundred percent in that. A lot of people [01:15:10] get excited because they see all these things and they're like, Oh my God, I'm going to, we haven't talked about [01:15:15] medical grade pens. We should talk about that. That's the new kind of avenue that people are pursuing and [01:15:20] peptides, but you shouldn't take seven peptides that are all different you know, technologies or [01:15:25] different biological system targeting and throw them all in one pen.
That doesn't make any sense. And I'll always [01:15:30] solve for what is your biggest issue. And then go around that can you take, but you know, [01:15:35] people will always say to me, Jay, but what about healing and fat loss if, you know, if I'm targeting fat loss, [01:15:40] I'm 40 pounds to lose in my belly, but I injured my knee in training.
Can I not take BPC TV 500 [01:15:45] along with my fat loss peptides? You can just not in the same needle, though. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2: [01:15:50] Well, I think to It's one of those things like theory versus practice. And in theory, you shouldn't [01:15:55] do it because if you look at, like Jay said, the cross chain reaction of them, but in practice, what I have noticed [01:16:00] is I kind of like to think about it and building a framework is pathways.
So if I'm addressing us, [01:16:05] like Jay was saying, an organ system or a pathway, typically you're going to be okay because again, they're delivering what they need to, [01:16:10] to that thing. And also too, from a practical standpoint, what I've noticed, cause I've experimented a lot is [01:16:15] say, I've got three different peptide vials and I go around and pull a syringe and I pull all of them into one.[01:16:20]
If you notice that it gets really cloudy, then you're going to cross reaction. Yeah, exactly. Then it's like, [01:16:25] okay, don't inject that because that's probably something now to say, if you put all three in and it doesn't get [01:16:30] cloudy, does that mean it still works? It's hard to say again, because there's permutations, but
Speaker: there's a rate of [01:16:35] reaction of cross linking.
So you mix them and inject them right away. You're probably fine. That [01:16:40] was kind of what exam. And if you see a reaction, it was a fast reaction. And you could probably [01:16:45] ask, One of the AI systems, how fast the cost thinking reaction is, and I'll tell you there's that can [01:16:50] you hook this up?
Speaker 2: Well, I think I was just reading the other day that in diagnostic tests I think using [01:16:55] AI now versus a doctor's recommendation that is now far past A doctor actually creating [01:17:00] diagnosing.
So
Speaker: that's something that we're, uh, that we're doing with [01:17:05] Axo. It's like, you got to get your numbers and it's got to be cheap and [01:17:10] frictionless and you don't need a permission slip to do it. And then if you want to diagnose yourself or have a doctor diagnosed, [01:17:15] you can, but having the data is, is totally fine.
And then deciding to modify [01:17:20] your lab test values based on your goals is also something that you don't need a doctor to do [01:17:25] unless you want pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 5: Yep. Yeah.
Speaker: Right. So this is like a fundamental human freedom thing. [01:17:30] So I want to know what biohacker favorite compound would you never use and why?[01:17:35]
Speaker 6: Hmm.
Speaker: Good question.
Speaker 2: Like a device or
Speaker: just a supplement, a compound supplement [01:17:40] or a peptide or something. You're like, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's
Speaker: gotta be melanin 10
Speaker 4: too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I [01:17:45] just have never had good experiences with relative to melatonin, melatonin one, the
Speaker 4: only person that [01:17:50] should use. And I know you probably have that experience, but you've actually sold one or 10 too, don't you?
We don't just one. No, no, we [01:17:55] just only sell one. And the reason that is, is that so melanin 10 two, as you know, and like, uh, when, when, [01:18:00] when peptides first started making the rounds, whatever that company in Australia that has the patent for it. And [01:18:05] then they sent it to the people at Arizona state and melatonin two started making the rounds.
I think it was like, Oh, [01:18:10] seven or eight.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: People loved it because it was literally a tanning peptide. You injected it and [01:18:15] all of a sudden you turned bright orange, you know, people that were darker complected became black. I mean, I've seen [01:18:20] people like it's insane, right? I
Speaker: had a friend from North India.
He's like, I just ran one, one vial of it. And [01:18:25] I went five shades darker. And my family's like, don't come home until you're light. [01:18:30] He's a Silicon Valley friend. He's like, Oh, my family. And, you know, and so, yeah, if you have [01:18:35] natural melanin levels, you will get really dark really fast.
Speaker 4: Well, so it also has this [01:18:40] weird, uh, ability to darken and enhance mold formation, right?
So like you can actually [01:18:45] get like a mold. It's not really there. All of a sudden become pronounced. And I know a lot of people that have had to. And then the other [01:18:50] thing, The other thing that's horrible about it, and you already mentioned it, is that if you're prone to the [01:18:55] nausea effect, my god, you can have gut, I mean, like, literally, [01:19:00] uh, what do you call that, where you're having, like, convulsions, I mean, dry heaves, where it's the worst [01:19:05] thing, so, I, most people I say stay away from that, the exception would be if you're a competitive, uh, [01:19:10] physique, athlete, bodybuilder, bikini athlete, and you don't have a tan [01:19:15] and it's like one week out, you know, you can use a microdose over like three days and there's a protocol and some [01:19:20] of my older books on how to use it, but you have to be very cautious about it.
Speaker: Melanotan 1 will darken you. Yeah, [01:19:25] that's
Speaker 4: all you really need,
Speaker: but you have to go to the sun right away after you inject it.
Speaker 4: And Melanotan 2 [01:19:30] is, as you know, ubiquitous. You can find it at any of the research chemical growth companies and it's very cheap. [01:19:35] Whereas Melanotan 1, Melanotan 1 is actually now called and it's an FDA approved [01:19:40] medication.
Speaker 6: Um,
Speaker 4: so it's much more expensive usually to find that if you can find it. So it's like, you know, [01:19:45] melatonin is cheap, cost effective. It just be very cautious with that. But I stay away from that.
Speaker 2: There's [01:19:50] another peptide too, that I just thought of when he was talking about that is sold a lot. And I personally [01:19:55] wouldn't mess around with it based on what I've read.
I don't know in practice how it works because no one talks about it. It's called [01:20:00] adipotide.
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it is actually peptide. Yeah, so what it's supposed to do is you can spot [01:20:05] inject it to kill fat cells. So it's actually comes from adipotide killing [01:20:10] adipose tissue. Okay. So it is supposed to go in and cause apoptosis of fat cells.
[01:20:15] Now, what can be bad about that? In theory, that sounds good, right? I inject it into my belly fat. It kills the fat cells. Fat cells go [01:20:20] away. But it seems to, in literature, also [01:20:25] maybe cause it to healthy cells, too. So, what could do, like, you know, so if you're injected to kill [01:20:30] the bad fat cells and it's also killing the good fat cells, that might not be the best thing long term.
But I've heard of people using it, [01:20:35] like injecting it to their lumpilings and stuff, and it's a, it will nuke the fat, but long term, that would just be one based on the [01:20:40] mechanisms that I've read, and I would say, okay. Most all peptides are relatively safe. Again, there are sickling molecules, but if that's [01:20:45] something that you're inducing into yourself, it could be like, eh, I don't know.
I don't want to play in that sandbox.
Speaker 4: By the way, the peptide that [01:20:50] works for injecting into love handles over time, it does take time. And obviously insulin control, living and [01:20:55] fasting, and all the things that we were already talking about on this podcast is tesomerone. There's definitely an effect.
Speaker: You can inject [01:21:00] that.
Interesting.
Speaker 4: Yes. And again, because as you know, it's another, a grip, it's called a grip. It's an [01:21:05] FDA approved drug for people with HIV. Uh, and in their situation, they have a disease called [01:21:10] lipodystrophy, which is like super hard visceral fat.
Speaker: Oh, it's an FDA approved drug. It is. It's called a grip. [01:21:15] Doesn't that mean that it has a lot of side effects and it's probably bad for you?
Speaker 2: Stay away. Why
Speaker: are we seeking [01:21:20] approval from those people? Remind me again.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting. I don't know if anyone's looked up the list [01:21:25] of all of the guidance around peptides that came out. Wasn't thalidomide
Speaker: FDA approved? I'm kidding. It [01:21:30] wasn't.
Speaker 4: But I mean, no, it's crazy because like if you, if you're a man, And you do have [01:21:35] visceral fat and you, you know, you were like you at one time and you weighed 300 pounds and you just have those areas that [01:21:40] are prone inject into that area.
Cause we know a lot of people that have done that and they're like, dude, it's gotten rid of it. [01:21:45] Wow.
Speaker: Yeah. There's also, um, Is it mesotherapy? Sure. Uh, yeah. Well, [01:21:50] you inject a bunch of, uh, adrenaline light compounds into that and that's pretty painful. I inject that
Speaker 4: [01:21:55] firefight hormones into your stubborn fat.
Speaker: I ended, I did that many, many years ago with the inventor [01:22:00] of it in New York. Just, uh, one cycle of it. Too much pain. I don't know if I noticed a [01:22:05] difference from it, but man, I was like shaking the whole time. It was not pleasant. So that's not maybe the [01:22:10] way I would recommend doing it unless, you know, if you have a doctor and you try it and it doesn't make you I [01:22:15] have weird adrenal hormones.
What are
Speaker 4: your thoughts? Because we haven't mentioned it, but what are your thoughts on, um, [01:22:20] the EM sculpt neo? So the, you know, the, the RF energy and then the [01:22:25] induction, the Tesla injection turn. Have you used it? I'm sure you have.
Speaker: Are you
Speaker 4: familiar with it? [01:22:30] I'm
Speaker: familiar with it. Yeah. I mean, it's weird because there's some straight just electrical current stuff.
That's good. [01:22:35] Yeah, exactly. So I, I've been using electromuscular [01:22:40] stimulation for 15 plus years, like the clinical grade stuff, right? Yeah. It's very powerful, [01:22:45] so doing it at high frequency can be really good. Getting rid of fat is a good thing when you have too much of [01:22:50] it, right? So sometimes, well, you're causing damage, but yeah, short term damage for long term [01:22:55] benefit and short term damage heals.
So there could be some benefits to it, [01:23:00] but it it feels like there's better ways to go about it.
Speaker 4: So my wife and I, you know, this full [01:23:05] disclosure, we used it in 2022 from June until [01:23:10] November. It was amazing. I mean, I was like, I mean, I'm very lean and have a six pack all the time, but like it [01:23:15] Shredded, like my veins, like through here were insane.
I'll tell you why it was bad though. [01:23:20] My deep tissue lady who also does cranial sacral and gets deep into it. She was like, what are [01:23:25] the first month after we did
Speaker: it,
Speaker 4: she was like, what in the hell [01:23:30] is going on to your body? So you were shocking that fascial network. So it's like you, what [01:23:35] we got to the point or the theory was you couldn't do a hundred percent induction.[01:23:40]
So you walk completely. You know, throw off your body's bioelectrical network, [01:23:45] but at the same time, you'll get some of the benefits of the rf.
Speaker: I, I could, I could see that. [01:23:50] Yeah. I think you could also just run straight electrical current to stimulate the muscles. That's what I, and just [01:23:55] burn fat. Well, I just, all these other mechanisms we talked about.
Speaker 4: Well, you're the guy ask like, why is somebody not [01:24:00] developed it? Em sculpt charges now $450,000 for that device. And then [01:24:05] every time you and I go on Alibaba or eBay, we see the Koreans with these. You know, [01:24:10] devices that nobody knows who they are. And it's like, you know, they sell them for what? 7, 000 or 10, 000.
And it's [01:24:15] like, it's just the same thing, you know, and they have like EM sculpt nano, or they're using names are almost the [01:24:20] same, but you would think that somebody would create like a laser for in home under 10, 000 hour device that they [01:24:25] could use for people like us who are already lean. We're not talking about dumpster fires.
[01:24:30] Who just need like regional targeted body fat
Speaker: removal?
Speaker 4: I know is that not [01:24:35] how come out yet? Why have you not invented that yet, bro? Come on. Give me come on, dude
Speaker: I mean [01:24:40] i i've i've had a light therapy company. But I'd like for a long time. Yeah, I know Although I [01:24:45] recently uh recently spun that out. I'm just i'm thinking about it.
Speaker 4: They talk about green light, right? Yeah, [01:24:50] green laser. Yeah
Speaker: green has some effects and you know, 528 innovations is here [01:24:55] You And you can increase mitochondrial function with lasers. Yeah. I've never seen spot reduction with a [01:25:00] laser without massive tissue damage. You also have things like CoolSculpt, uh, which That doesn't work.
[01:25:05] Oh, you know, it works, but it's But it's bad. It's really bad. Yeah, really bad. It would cause, like, massive [01:25:10] damage to your fascial layers and all. But it will, it'll get rid of fat. And it's, [01:25:15] uh, it's a bruise. This is
Speaker 2: an interesting conversation around peptides that I just thought as we were talking about this.[01:25:20]
Jay and I do not know of any peptides that will remove excess loose skin. Yeah, there are great [01:25:25] peptides. If you've lost people are confused about that, but that's one of the most common questions we get. I think GHK does [01:25:30] whether GHK is going to help, you know, lose a hundred.
Speaker: I have a unique perspective on this.
I [01:25:35] have about half of a large bath towel worth of extra skin from when I was obese. And [01:25:40] there's equations to figure that stuff out. Yeah. And. The only thing today [01:25:45] that that does that is you cut it off. Yeah,
Speaker 4: of
Speaker: course, right? So people will say [01:25:50] dry fasting. I've not seen results from that
Speaker 5: now
Speaker: and here's the thing and they go Well, that [01:25:55] means that you know longevity doesn't work, but okay, do you cut your fingernails?[01:26:00]
Yes, I'd take them every now and then they grow over time and then you cut them off if you're gonna [01:26:05] live to 180 or Longer of course your skin will do what skin does because of gravity [01:26:10] and that's normal So you have two choices you can leave the extra skin on or you [01:26:15] can trim it the same way you do your toenails So I took off the obese skin on my face.
There's 28 square [01:26:20] inches I could grab this full of skin on either side of my face and I posted a picture doing that. Yeah Which is basically [01:26:25] some aging and some obesity. And so I took it off and I worked [01:26:30] with the local guy, uh, here, uh, Dr. Rob Whitfield has been on the show. Sure. And probably [01:26:35] the, it's expensive, but the most intriguing thing there was he has something called a no cut [01:26:40] facelift and they take the equivalent of a tattoo needle, but in reverse and they suck [01:26:45] out tiny little micro cores of skin.
Yeah. So I had about, I think, eight. Or 12 square [01:26:50] inches on my low backs. I had like folds. Yeah. And like, so those are gone.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker: Um, but I have a lot of [01:26:55] extra skin on my legs. Like you can just grab a, you know, a handful of skin and like, I don't really want that [01:27:00] much surgery. So I'm probably just going to leave that.
Yeah. But I was really happy. I'm like, look, my dimples are back. Yeah. That's [01:27:05] awesome. Because if you've formerly been obese and you go down to under 10 percent body fat, your extra skin will be a thing. [01:27:10] Yep. And we may, We may develop some kind of funky technology in the future. I [01:27:15] don't think so. Like the body isn't good at tightening things like that.
I mean, we can [01:27:20] make things stronger and thicker, like ligaments and tendons and bones. [01:27:25] So you can have thicker skin that doesn't sag as much, but it will grow over time, just like your toenails do. Right. [01:27:30] And like, so you gotta do something about it. We probably weren't meant to live that long and I don't really care.
I'm going to. [01:27:35] Right. Right. That's a good
Speaker 4: point. Yeah. I mean, we all, we have that conversation all the time. Like [01:27:40] you're probably, you have Like the vitality and the just the [01:27:45] elasticity in the skin is only a certain level, you know, and you probably have what, 20 to 30 pounds over [01:27:50] what your natural before your body.
Expands to a point where a surgery is the only option. Yeah, [01:27:55]
Speaker: the goal is to get there because you're going to live a lot longer if you're that lean, right? And one of the [01:28:00] things that you guys put out there that's really cool is this shred product, which [01:28:05] is SLUPP332. Talk about this peptide [01:28:10] and what it does.
Speaker 2: So I'll talk about the mechanisms real quick and then we can talk about all the cool [01:28:15] stuff. So it is an estrogen like receptor agonist. So does not [01:28:20] agonize estrogen is an estrogen like receptor agonist. And when you agonize that receptor, it [01:28:25] actually drives mitochondrial function. So it improves mitochondrial health.
We were talking about estrogen earlier. It's been very important to mitochondrial [01:28:30] health. It's an estrogen like receptor agonist. So it's actually been looked at as more of an [01:28:35] exercise memetic. So it basically like induces a state of exercise within the body and drives mitochondrial [01:28:40] function. So. Jay and I started playing around with that.
I guess it's like August. Yeah, almost a year ago [01:28:45] last year And the first time we took it we we were actually together filming a course and we went to the gym I'm [01:28:50] like, holy and we trained like man We feel like be standing we got on the bike and we just kept going and going and going [01:28:55] I
Speaker: really like it.
It's just it's an energy thing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and it [01:29:00] helps you burn fat as well. Yes It's so weird. It worked. We can burn fat. Who would have thought, right?
Speaker 4: Yeah. Did you [01:29:05] notice that the first time you took it, like literally like within the first couple of hours after taking it, you [01:29:10] felt like you sweat more, a higher energy production or what?
Speaker: I was a little sweatier. Yeah. Yeah. And [01:29:15] I typically am not a sweaty person. That's on a sauna. I'm not going to sweat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But drive mitochondrial [01:29:20] function and the process of doing so obviously is going to up regulate everything in the body. The [01:29:25] thing with this one is dosing is very important. And so, funny enough, sometimes [01:29:30] leaner people can take higher doses of things because our bodies work better.
This one's a little bit of the [01:29:35] inverse. So typically, the more optimized and healthier, from a [01:29:40] mitochondrial standpoint, someone is, the lower the dose they need, versus someone that is severely [01:29:45] mitochondrially dysfunctional and inflamed and impaired, they're actually going to need a higher dose. J and I played a [01:29:50] lot with the dosing of starting.
I think the first dose we took was 100 micrograms. And then we went [01:29:55] away. Yeah. It's a two milligrams, 20 times more daily. And what we notice is you feel [01:30:00] good for a short term and then over time when you're stimulating and pushing mitochondrial [01:30:05] hard, you get into this, what's called mitochondrial over your overspend and what's happening is you're throwing [01:30:10] off so much ATP that there's actually RLS that build up in the body.
And so you have these [01:30:15] oxidative byproducts that come from driving so much mitochondrial activity. And so you kind of, if you're doing [01:30:20] a higher dose for a long time, you kind of get metabolically fatigued because you build up this ROS in [01:30:25] the body from driving that so much. So for us, the dosing sweet spot, just with the SLU by itself is somewhere [01:30:30] like 400 to 600 micrograms.
Daily, but for someone that's really obese and has no [01:30:35] energy, they might need to go higher to like 1500. Yeah, 100, 000 or 1500. [01:30:40] But no, it works amazing to help drive exercise performance. And Jane always like to talk, you know, in the [01:30:45] underground world, the Paris 2024 Olympics that right there. Yeah, [01:30:50] well, both of them.
Well, so the ingredient SLU. What was driving and I know that there's multiple [01:30:55] records that have been broken and track and field and stuff for people that were okay
Speaker: on it. So, um, wait till the [01:31:00] enhanced games comes out. Yeah. Yeah. I did a whole episode with Aaron on that. I'm an advisor to [01:31:05] them now. That's all.
Yeah, that's gonna be amazing. I can't wait. When
Speaker 4: is it next year?
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker 4: [01:31:10] Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Everyone will pay for
Speaker: that. It's like
Speaker 4: watching baseball in 2008 to [01:31:15] 2000.
Speaker: Exactly. Uh, you have Shred X [01:31:20] too, uh, which is really interesting because you have the SLU in it and you have two other [01:31:25] ingredients. Tell me about those.
So the
Speaker 2: other ingredients are a peptide is actually called [01:31:30] AOD 9604, which is actually, it's pretty cool. If you took the growth hormone sequence and [01:31:35] you extracted the fat burning part of it, that's what the peptide AOD
Speaker 6: [01:31:40] 9604 is.
Speaker 2: Now, in principle, is it going to just melt fat off the body? No. No. But what it does is it [01:31:45] helps drive fat loss through exercise.
And so we have the liposomal [01:31:50] form of that in there. Obviously, the injected would be better if you're using it. But to pair it with SLU, it helps [01:31:55] drive the fat loss from performance. And then the other one people probably heard of. There's a little [01:32:00] bit of debate on it online. It's called carterine. The chemical name is GW501,
Speaker: [01:32:05] it's one of my absolute favorites.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker: And it doesn't
Speaker 4: kill you [01:32:10] at high dosages. I read it,
Speaker: you know. I wrote a lot about this [01:32:15] in my longevity book. I'm like, guys, this is exercise in a pill. Actually is it [01:32:20] BGC one alpha increases mitochondrial
Speaker 4: drug in Russia, by the way, [01:32:25] performance enhancement, and
Speaker: also for longevity. You're crazy to not use it.
So I have loved that stuff and [01:32:30] super public. I think it's been eight, nine years since I ran cycles with that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker: [01:32:35] I, I did use that and three other SARMs all at once. I put on 29 pounds [01:32:40] of muscle in six weeks and it was Insane. I had [01:32:45] to like buy new shirts. I was going to go speak on, on Tony Robbins stage, and I literally couldn't [01:32:50] wear the shirt that I bought.
And so if you ever see a video of that, there's a reason [01:32:55] that, um, the shirt didn't fit, but, um, that was part of the stack. The problem is if you put [01:33:00] muscle on that fast here, well, your, your tendons and ligaments don't like it. You know, it gets some [01:33:05] tears in your shoulders from that and bad things. So I'm not recommending that people go out and do that, but I do think cartering is [01:33:10] amazing.
And the fact that it's in here is, so
Speaker 4: that is a three. Fasted cardio [01:33:15] supplement. If you take that before you do cardio, and of course you can take it pre exercise, but [01:33:20] obviously cardio is a lot better. What if you just take it because you want to? You can do that, but I mean, if you want to [01:33:25] sweat and burn an incredible amount of calories, it's obviously, when you're fasting, it's amazing.[01:33:30]
We, we, we definitely don't want to end this podcast. So without talking about what's in the pipeline [01:33:35] for GLPs, because you know, there's four and five stage agonists. Sure. So imagine that those are going to [01:33:40] make,
Speaker: so I'm fasted and I'm just feeling like I should take some shred. I don't know. Three or four, three or four.[01:33:45]
You'll
Speaker 2: definitely, I think too, that in my opinion, based personal experience that I think there's actually a little bit of a [01:33:50] cognitive pick me up too. Oh, there's no doubt
Speaker: from a Carterine. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. From taking that. So [01:33:55] we like to say it before exercise because it, the benefits for exercise are so much better from a performance [01:34:00] standpoint.
Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's an amazing supplement. So definitely.
Speaker: And yeah, [01:34:05] previously it was buying powder and have a drug dealer scale. Yeah.
Speaker 4: We definitely have to mention that if you're going to [01:34:10] talk about Shred X. Cause that is the whole. BAM 15
Speaker: with SLU. Yeah. Okay. Tell me [01:34:15] about this.
Speaker 2: So that's really cool. And shout out to Alex Kickel.
He helped us formulate his [01:34:20] product. MetaShred. And helped us with this. So, Like I mentioned before, [01:34:25] there's this oxidative waste kind of buildup from driving too much mitochondrial
Speaker 5: [01:34:30] energy.
Speaker 2: What's cool about BAM 15 is it's actually a mitochondrial encoupler, and if people have heard that term, they probably have [01:34:35] heard of DNP.
Right. That was the original mitochondrial uncoupler that helped you lose fat, but [01:34:40] it also gave you a fever, gave you a fever and probably killed a few [01:34:45] people in the process. So BAM 15 has actually been studied a long time in rodents, [01:34:50] and I know it's likely going to be coming out in human trials very soon.
But. [01:34:55] What it does is by itself, it works as a mitochondrial uncoupler to help drive fat [01:35:00] loss and basically raise thermogenesis at rest. So basically you take BAM 15, you sit on the [01:35:05] couch all day, if you burn 2000 calories, you're gonna burn 22 or 2300. But what's cool about it [01:35:10] is it kind of acts as a scrub to all of that oxidative waste production that's [01:35:15] coming from SLU.
So when you pair them together, it's really nice. I like to say, [01:35:20] I think the best analogy is if you have a car, right? The car throws off exhaust. Right? That's good to a point, because you [01:35:25] need energy to get where you want to go. But if you have too many cars throwing off too much exhaust, what [01:35:30] happens? You have smock.
Mm-hmm . In the atmosphere. So the band 15 actually kind of works as [01:35:35] a filter on that exhaust to help you get energy out of the SLU without [01:35:40] building up too much waste as a byproduct. So sweet. Again, you don't have to worry about that taking SLU [01:35:45] unless you're taking super high doses. For super long amounts of time, but the BAM 15 works [01:35:50] synergistically with it together to increase performance.
But then also just from a longevity perspective, [01:35:55] um, what's cool about BAM 15 too, this is only a rodent study, but they paired BAM 15 and rodents [01:36:00] or used it against semaglutide and terzapatide for fat loss. BAM 15 [01:36:05] beat semaglutide and terzapatide for fat loss. Crazy. What's awesome about it too, [01:36:10] Almost no muscle loss.
Whereas what do we think about some good type of appetite? You have the muscle loss. So it's pretty cool [01:36:15] from a that.
Speaker: All right. So, so for, if you're listening to this, there's a lot [01:36:20] there. So if I summarize that stuff, it's bio longevity labs. com slash Dave. [01:36:25] And you get a discount. Thanks guys. And probably the, the, the Mac [01:36:30] daddy of these is shred X with Carterine.
That was pretty, uh, pretty [01:36:35] exciting, at least for me, because I really like Carterine. And then the one for the maximum [01:36:40] fat loss would be MetaShred. For sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Anyone can use MetaShred and they're going to notice enhanced metabolism.
Speaker 2: [01:36:45] We like all the, like you can use those on alternate days. So a more of a performance day shred X, and then [01:36:50] maybe it's more of a resting day.
MetaShred would be good too. So.
Speaker: Yeah. The, these are really powerful [01:36:55] products and we didn't put 'em out here, but the bio regulators, I've been a fan of that stuff for a very [01:37:00] long time, and you, you actually are now mixing them. And one of the things I always hated was getting a bunch of [01:37:05] boxes with acrylic script, you know, you can't even read it and then you just open like 10 different [01:37:10] ones to take all these little, so you, you have good blends.
So thank you for doing the work. You're
Speaker 4: welcome. Well, and hopefully by the [01:37:15] time this podcast comes out, we will have our own. U. S. A. Manufactured by regulators in bottles just [01:37:20] like that. So sweet. You're rushing Russian stuff, but you know, in our own bottles and stuff like that. So people don't have to read [01:37:25] Russian labels or Latvian labels or anything like that.
Speaker 2: Or even sometimes too, when they're [01:37:30] manufacturing them there, they have a production date and then the expiration date. [01:37:35] And then they see the production date and they're like, this is expired. It's like, no, it was, it was made on that [01:37:40] date. And so it's actually not expired, but
Speaker: yeah, guys, fascinating. And [01:37:45] thanks for just focusing on peptides, peptides, peptides, and a few other cool things mixed in there that [01:37:50] by regulators.
Even the cartering. So [01:37:55] availability of these has been an absolute dumpster fire. Um, historically, [01:38:00] uh, I've ordered lots of things from Russia and everyone knows that's hard to do these days. And [01:38:05] you oftentimes don't know what you're getting. So you've got a massive inventory of things and you've got a lot [01:38:10] of oral formulas that you can't get in most places.
So thank you for just doing all the work because [01:38:15] it is a lot of work to do it. And it's biolongevitylabs. com slash Dave, [01:38:20] get a discount. And if you're saying that was so much information, look, pick [01:38:25] one, right? Give it a try and see what happens and track your [01:38:30] daily. How do I feel? Right. And maybe it's a longevity thing because it's a bioregulator.
Maybe it's a [01:38:35] performance or a fat loss or a cognitive function and just look at what happened and then stack something on top of it. [01:38:40] And don't forget, manage your hormones like a boss. Thanks for coming in Hunter [01:38:45] J.
Speaker 2: Thank you. See
Speaker: you next time on the [01:38:50] human upgrade podcast.