Speaker: [00:00:00] On a per calorie basis, broccoli is more expensive than red meat. I used to be a vegan [00:00:05] and then a raw vegan, and I would maybe eat two and a half pounds of broccoli in a day. [00:00:10] And what I've since come to really believe is that most foods have some beneficial [00:00:15] compounds. There's benefits, and then there's a lot of toxins
Speaker 2: and toxins are in plants.[00:00:20]
David Roberts and Dr. John Gildea are breaking new ground in cellular science, revealing how [00:00:25] overlooked foods like broccoli can unlock resilience and reverse damage.
Speaker 3: There [00:00:30] are a lot of broccoli supplements, especially on Amazon, that say they have sulforaphane. But if you actually ask [00:00:35] for their certificate of analysis, it's not sulforaphane.
It's glucoraphanin, the precursor.
Speaker: [00:00:40] Purified sulforaphane is the only compound that activates. [00:00:45] [00:00:50] About [00:00:55] a year ago, you guys came to the studio here in Austin [00:01:00] and you schooled me on three different detox pathways. I always focus on two, [00:01:05] but there's a third one and you can do something for all three and I've been doing it really [00:01:10] reliably since then.
And I think it's worked really well. So I thought it'd be helpful to have you come back [00:01:15] on the show. You got a couple of Johns Hopkins guys who are really, really deep in [00:01:20] biohacking, biochemistry and pick your brains about what's changing, [00:01:25] especially because we now have AI assisting the research you're doing.
So you guys are okay to go deep [00:01:30] on some cool new stuff? For sure. Sounds great. Thanks for having us. Yeah, of course. Everyone's [00:01:35] heard that broccoli is good for you. And there's also a group of people who say, no, it actually [00:01:40] has some stuff in it you don't want. So what are the good parts of broccoli and what are the potential bad parts of [00:01:45] broccoli?
So yeah,
Speaker 3: basically adult broccoli, there's a difference between adult broccoli, sprout [00:01:50] seeds, um, the adult broccoli actually has Uh, [00:01:55] more molecules in it. I three C and dim. And [00:02:00] you read papers. Are you? We always get the question are often in our customer [00:02:05] service. Can can your capsules? Cause [00:02:10] hypothyroidism.
The answer is no, with sprouts and seeds it doesn't have the same [00:02:15] issues as mature adult broccoli, um, for that reason. So,
Speaker: grown [00:02:20] up broccoli, the stuff that everyone eats and that they think is healthy, has thyroid blockers [00:02:25] in it. And it also can have, uh, some other various types of plant toxins. And there's [00:02:30] thousands of plant toxins, some stronger than others, right?
So, do you ever eat broccoli?
Speaker 4: We do eat [00:02:35] broccoli. At least I do. And it's because of some of the known synergies. [00:02:40] So, adult broccoli doesn't have a whole lot. But it has DIM and I3C, [00:02:45] these two compounds that tend to be associated with the, the, uh, [00:02:50] thyroid issues. They're goitrogens. Um, urucin is another one.[00:02:55]
And it turned out to be somewhat of a farce because the only [00:03:00] people that really stumble with that one are people that have low iodine. And so there were [00:03:05] a number of studies afterwards that proved that if you had adequate iodine, [00:03:10] sulforaphane itself actually helped thyroid [00:03:15] diseases. So it was one of those bait and switch, um, blame the [00:03:20] whole complex when it was really just a couple of compounds.[00:03:25]
Speaker: So the idea is, if you're gonna eat broccoli, make sure you have enough iodine. [00:03:30] Right. Another thing that I've taught for a long time is if you're going to eat [00:03:35] broccoli You should eat something that has the enzyme to activate the good stuff that gets [00:03:40] turned on by cooking So when I ran that first grass fed restaurant in LA, [00:03:45] no bad seed oils.
This is more than 10 years ago I opened it every single dish that had [00:03:50] broccoli or cauliflower would have a slice of raw [00:03:55] Uh, usually watermelon radish, but any kind of radish we do in order to unlock this because of my [00:04:00] racinase. Tell me about that.
Speaker 3: cruciferous, the [00:04:05] broccoli or the cauliflower needs that enzyme in order to [00:04:10] convert in broccoli's case, sulfurophane.
And in cauliflower's [00:04:15] case, it causes a molecule in cauliflower that it needs, uh, the enzyme in order to [00:04:20] make it into the usable form, the good form. Um, and so, and with [00:04:25] broccoli, it's called glucoraphanin is the precursor You take, uh, morosinase, it [00:04:30] cleaves the glucose, and you get sulforaphane. Um, the, and so it's [00:04:35] actually, really smart to do that.
In fact, we, because [00:04:40] not everybody wants to our capsules, um, we sell seeds on our site, but we also sell [00:04:45] radish seeds. We sell broccoli seeds and radish seeds and say, you should buy both and grow [00:04:50] both. And for that
Speaker: reason, when you talk about capsules, you make a broccoli, which [00:04:55] is a purified sulforaphane, which is the only compound that activates all [00:05:00] three of the detox pathways in your liver.
What are the three and why do people care?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so [00:05:05] phase one, phase two, phase three. Makes it easy. Yeah, so they're, they're in these very [00:05:10] easy to remember complexes. But as you, as you follow a toxin in your [00:05:15] body, they make sense. And phase one you have to first [00:05:20] change this molecule into something that your body will recognize.
So it's often [00:05:25] adding a, um, oxidizing or, or changing it so that [00:05:30] it, it's soluble, you know, oftentimes soluble. And then. So
Speaker: soluble in [00:05:35] water. Mm hmm. Okay. So your body is going to take a toxin that you got from man or from nature, [00:05:40] right? Even a metabolic by product or something from your gut bacteria.
Toxins come from everywhere. And the first thing [00:05:45] is make it so you can mix it with water. That's phase one. Right. Okay. What's phase two?
Speaker 4: Phase two is [00:05:50] conjugated two. Phase two. the shuttle system, so glutathione. [00:05:55] Glutathione is the carrier for many of them. Okay. Um, that's, that's one that most people know [00:06:00] about.
Speaker: And in the biohacking world glutathione is something I, I introduced in the first year of the [00:06:05] biohacking movement because it's such a powerful detoxer. So that's what's going to stick to [00:06:10] these toxins. So phase one made them sticky, phase two provides something for them to stick to, which is glutathione.
Speaker 4: [00:06:15] Yep. So as you think about how would you get rid of it, that's a tag, it's a, [00:06:20] it's a handle that you then can grab and shuttle and move and phase three [00:06:25] is how you shuttle and move it out of the cell, move it into the, [00:06:30] um, extracellular space or lymphatics, and then get it out into [00:06:35] feces or urine.
Speaker: So this is when you're going through a forest to clear it.
You [00:06:40] put a big red X on the trees you want to cut down and take out of there. Okay. Or you hang a sign on the [00:06:45] trash that says basura, which means trash. And you get [00:06:50] it, you get it out. So somehow you flag it and that way the cell knows to remove it. Uh, and then the, you can pee [00:06:55] it out or poop it out. And.
Normally, uh, people, you just take glutathione, [00:07:00] right? You can, you can do that. I've been recommending it for years. In fact, I still think taking some [00:07:05] glutathione is not a bad idea. But what you're doing is the only thing I've ever heard of, and this [00:07:10] is in 20 years of doing this stuff, that does all three of them in one compound, and it comes from [00:07:15] broccoli seeds.
Correct. How many pounds of broccoli seeds are in one capsule of [00:07:20] broccoli?
Speaker 3: Well, we talk about in two and a half pounds of mature broccoli is the [00:07:25] equivalent of one capsule. Well, it's just one broccoli seed then, because it grows into a mature It can [00:07:30] grow big, yeah. It's true.
Speaker 4: Concentrate. Ha, ha, ha,
Speaker 3: ha, [00:07:35] ha.
Yeah. So, yeah. And we also add the pluses. We add the good molecule from [00:07:40] Watercress and it's called PITC. It has a phenethyl group on there. We read a paper I [00:07:45] showed that there's a like a 5x synergy from just sulfurophane alone. [00:07:50] Oh, wow, as you amplify it It's amplified. So it's, it, it activates [00:07:55] Nrf2 really well.
Okay. And why would people care about Nrf2? Well, [00:08:00] uh, Nrf2 is at the center of phase two detox. Nrf2 is, is [00:08:05] really why you're taking sulforaphane. It's why there's a lot of research on it from [00:08:10] Hopkins. But it activates also something called the antioxidant response element. [00:08:15] And so that's, it's, so when. The sulforaphane goes into, [00:08:20] uh, the, the nucleus of the cell, it basically turns on [00:08:25] 200 different genes that act basically that turn on and [00:08:30] produce 200 over 200 antioxidants and they stand for 72 hours.
So instead [00:08:35] of like with vitamin C, you get one, uh, antioxidant and you, it neutralizes a pro [00:08:40] oxidant, what happens is the, the, this, this system. [00:08:45] Turns on, stays on, and just cleans up the antioxidants really well, or the pro oxidants really well. [00:08:50] NRF2
Speaker: activation is tied to a lot of the longevity stuff that I've written about, and just stuff in [00:08:55] the field, so.
When I zoom out a level, I used to be a vegan, [00:09:00] and then a raw vegan, and I would maybe eat two and a half pounds of broccoli in a [00:09:05] day, and that was when I wasn't dating anyone, because anyone who Ha, what do you eat two and a half pounds? You [00:09:10] can't do it. Yeah. And What I've, I've since come to really believe is [00:09:15] that most foods have some beneficial compounds, um, except for kale.
It's gross. [00:09:20] Okay. Even kale has some beneficial stuff. So there's, Benefits and then there's a lot [00:09:25] of toxins and toxins are in plants. There's some in animals [00:09:30] like scorpion venom and snake venom, but we don't normally eat those. So you don't see a lot [00:09:35] of animal based toxins unless the meat is spoiled, right?
Or you've done [00:09:40] something weird to it. But with plants, okay, I got benefits, [00:09:45] but The downside was meaningful, and I think it's, it's there with excessive [00:09:50] doses of broccoli, if nothing else, just gastric distress, which increases a little bit of [00:09:55] polysaccharides and decreases, uh, fertility. Not actual fertility, you just can't get a date, because if [00:10:00] you're someone who eats two pounds of broccoli, it's really not a good thing.
Other than fertility. Yeah, exactly. It's room clearing [00:10:05] infertility, we'll, we'll call it that way. So, it, it's not reasonable to do that. And then there's all the other plants. [00:10:10] So, I ended up, after a lot of soul searching and research and, you know, helping people lose millions of pounds. [00:10:15] is the plants that are worth eating are [00:10:20] oregano, um, rosemary, [00:10:25] thyme, the herbs that we originally traded on the spice trading [00:10:30] routes are the most potent sources of good without as much of the bad.[00:10:35]
Compared to bulk vegetables, which frankly don't have enough energy to be worth eating unless we're [00:10:40] in a Kind of a famine situation. Like Noah's like, Oh my god, I'm starving, [00:10:45] I just want broccoli. It's just not how it works. And my evidence for that is during [00:10:50] hurricanes, if you go into the grocery stores where they've been picked clean, the vegan meat is still [00:10:55] there.
Because people are like, I'd rather starve than eat that, because like it's Doesn't matter. So, what's [00:11:00] left is, you want the good, you don't want the bad, and you can't eat enough of the bulk plants to get good out of [00:11:05] them anyway. It's like, oh, look, watercress has this amazing power. Yeah, you eat enough of that watercress, you're gonna clog your [00:11:10] kidneys before you get any of the good stuff.
So, it's our job in biohacking, and some of [00:11:15] you guys do, you know, with Johns Hopkins level precision, but, it's, let's get the good [00:11:20] stuff. And get the right dose that I could not get by eating, right? And then [00:11:25] let's make it easy to do. So I do four caps. I'm not saying this [00:11:30] because of any commercial. I literally do four caps of broccoli, which is 10 pounds of [00:11:35] broccoli every day.
Now, I know, uh, One of my buddies in the [00:11:40] longevity field is like, Oh, look, I'm cooking some broccoli every day and putting it in my, my mush. [00:11:45] I used to do that, uh, maybe 10 plus years ago. I don't really do that anymore. [00:11:50] If I need broccoli as a base for something, I'll eat some, but there's no point to it.
There's not enough benefit [00:11:55] compared to the work and even the cost. People are listening, going, well, I'm trying to [00:12:00] economize, everything's expensive now, you know what's really expensive? Broccoli. Yeah. Because you get like 50 [00:12:05] calories of broccoli, and they charge you 8 bucks for it, or 6 bucks? Like, no! It's a [00:12:10] terrible investment.
On a per calorie basis, broccoli's more expensive than red meat. [00:12:15] So, what I would like to do is just say I got all the benefits, and that's why I've increasingly [00:12:20] used extracts of plants to get the results I want for longevity, [00:12:25] and cognitive function, and biohacking. And because my History includes [00:12:30] major exposure to toxic mold, uh, and I had to detox from that and from heavy metals, my [00:12:35] 20s, chronic fatigue syndrome and all.
I actively manage my [00:12:40] detoxing. Um, I was just in Kenya and then [00:12:45] Madagascar, um, literally, you know. Oh, two weeks ago. Okay. Uh, with my daughter. There's a lot of [00:12:50] mold, especially in Madagascar. I couldn't find a room that was perfectly clean or even mostly clean. [00:12:55] So I know I got mold exposure. Did I take extra [00:13:00] broccolite, actually, and extra glutathione on top of that while I was traveling?
Yeah, I did. And [00:13:05] it totally worked. I didn't get sick from it, which is Remarkable. So, so [00:13:10] thank you for making it so I don't have to bring 50 pounds of broccoli through customs. You can do it. So, [00:13:15] I hope that helps people understand, like, why would you think about it this way?
Speaker 3: And we, I mean, the origins of [00:13:20] this were, like, John's wife had cancer.
My wife died from cancer. And [00:13:25] so we made I, I say we made broccoli sprouts for 10 families. So we juice them every [00:13:30] day enough, but we use them for ourselves, but juiced them. And, um, and [00:13:35] it's just, it's a job. And so we, at the time we had, um, Uh, one and three year old [00:13:40] kids and so it's just, um, you know, have we, and we did it, [00:13:45] but having an option.
So if you travel or if your crop [00:13:50] spoils or gets moldy or whatever, um, you can, you know, fall back [00:13:55] on it. And this one, we wanted to really, Activate nrf2. So that's why we threw in [00:14:00] the the watercress But basically having folks have options to easily [00:14:05] access the benefits
Speaker: when I was Really into the raw vegan thing.[00:14:10]
I would sprout Broccoli and various other things it turns out a lot of sprouts have things you don't [00:14:15] want even broccoli sprouts Right. They have what isothiocin in them as well [00:14:20] but when you extract the good stuff, you have to worry about it. And what I found was, even when I bought like the [00:14:25] multi level sprouting trays with misters and all that crap, they mold.
No matter [00:14:30] what you do, it molds. And it, it's just, it's not Among other things. [00:14:35] Yeah. It's not sustainable to do it at home, even if you want to save money. I know some [00:14:40] people are going to say, well, you know, I live in a perfect environment with sunshine and, you know, I wear a sundress all day and, you [00:14:45] know, cavort in the sun and I have no concerns in the world and I, you know, meditate over my [00:14:50] sprouts with crystals, fine.
Like, you're one in a million because it doesn't work, even when you try to do it at [00:14:55] home.
So, how did [00:15:00] you manage to do this for 10 families? Did you like sit there and stare at them so the mold wouldn't come?
Speaker 3: Um, [00:15:05] yeah, I got pretty good at telling which one's molded, so I just toss them and I could, you know, I [00:15:10] could just look at it and just kind of assess and then harvest it. It wasn't [00:15:15] 14, but it was enough.
as it, but we used them all ourselves. So Mark, we just used a ton. [00:15:20] Got it. I used to use colloidal silver
Speaker: and grapefruit seed extract and I'd play with stuff in the water just so they [00:15:25] wouldn't spoil. So now you've just got a process where you're doing it at scale [00:15:30] and I don't have to worry about it. I literally just take a pill and it's the same thing, but better than what I did with all [00:15:35] that work.
Speaker 3: And it will say You know, it's expensive, and the reason for that is it's really hard to make, [00:15:40] and there are a lot of, uh, supplements, broccoli supplements, specifically, [00:15:45] especially on Amazon, that say they have sulforaphane, if you turn it around, they'll say sulforaphane on the [00:15:50] ingredients list, but if you actually ask for their certificate of analysis, it's not sulforaphane, it's [00:15:55] glucoraphanin, the precursor, which doesn't work, which may work if [00:16:00] you have the right gut bacteria, but I don't know.
But it's a crapshoot
Speaker 4: comment on something [00:16:05] I'm a slow think thinker sometimes. So you're talking about your dish in California where [00:16:10] they made this dish. The beautiful part about that that I think people don't [00:16:15] realize is your source of morosinase doesn't have ESP the reverse [00:16:20] enzyme.
Speaker: Oh, what
Speaker 4: is that activates?
Speaker: Right? So my radishes don't have ESP. [00:16:25]
Speaker 4: Made you like tell me more. So [00:16:30] that you're, you're, you're designed for. Your experiment is, I [00:16:35] think, Why I was sort of shocked into dumbfoundedness is that is that that is [00:16:40] Amazing that your source of the morosinase that you're doing the [00:16:45] conversion with actually doesn't have the reverse Enzyme, so you're not doing the Rhonda [00:16:50] Patrick do this at this temperature do this at other temperatures and you're playing [00:16:55] Yin yang games you're actually using the forward Very process of [00:17:00] enzyme and um, I think no one probably knew it.
They just came back a [00:17:05] lot, probably to the restaurant,
Speaker: you know, people did not know why they felt good with half the dishes. They also [00:17:10] didn't know that I had electrically grounded all of the tables. We do it like a [00:17:15] 20 ft spike or sorry. Yeah, 20 ft, foot copper spike into the foundation underneath it. [00:17:20] And then we had metal embedded on the edges of everything.
So they're earthing while they eat. Mhm. [00:17:25] And the lighting was like, I just was like, I want you to know what biohacking really feels like. And I didn't know why that [00:17:30] way it all works, but it was carefully composed based on science. Yeah, that's super cool. And, [00:17:35] and some of that carries forward into upgrade labs.
My franchise, you know, it's designed a certain way when you come in and you [00:17:40] see feel good and all the equipment works do so it's, it's a systems biology thing, which is where [00:17:45] you guys are both experts. And, and yeah, Rhonda is interesting where. Yeah, she got to [00:17:50] be well known when she came on Joe Rogan's show, he was looking for an expert who would [00:17:55] say mycotoxins didn't matter because he was kind of trying to discredit the three times I've been on his show, but he [00:18:00] was selling a competing product.
So Rhonda came out, and I've invited her multiple times on the show, but let's talk about, [00:18:05] whatever you want to talk about, but let's maybe talk a little bit about mycotoxins, because when you tell people that they don't work, and I get [00:18:10] it, there's a reason to tell Joe that, Mycotoxins are very important for, uh, [00:18:15] what's happening with our fertility, for people who can't lose weight, even some of the GLP 1 stuff that we're going to talk [00:18:20] about.
Uh, and if you want to detox mycotoxins, the vast majority of them [00:18:25] need phase 1, phase 2, phase 3, and so sulforaphane should be [00:18:30] on the list for all the mold people right up there with glutathione and calcium n [00:18:35] glucrate. And so, sulforaphane is one where I knew it was important, but I didn't know how important it was until you guys taught [00:18:40] me, and I've noticed a difference from taking it.
And
Speaker 3: speaking of microtoxins, the whole glyphosate [00:18:45] issue, that's sort of the One of the big microtoxins, right. And yeah, well
Speaker: there's microtoxin. There's [00:18:50] mycotoxin, there's like the mold side. And then what's confusing is mold, toxins. [00:18:55] Microtoxins are also microtoxins. You're saying Myco? I was saying Myco.
Yeah, I [00:19:00] misunderstood. Got it. Yeah, I, I figured as much. And also some of our listeners, you know, mycotoxins just, I [00:19:05] means toxins for mold. Yeah. And penicillin would be a mold toxin, you know, it messes up all your gut bacteria, but it's [00:19:10] useful. And then there's things like xone. Uh, this is a [00:19:15] thousand times more estrogenic than human estrogen.
Oh wow. And in the ranching industry, [00:19:20] we give it to cows so they'll get fat on 30 percent less calories. And [00:19:25] so, if this drug exists, and there's a market for, you know, a hundred million dollar market or something for it, [00:19:30] I'm pretty sure that guys like that Wayne guy, uh, and others are like, it's all [00:19:35] about the calories.
I'm like, dude, if it's about the calories, this drug cannot exist. And it does. So [00:19:40] this is why it's so important. I had exposure to that. So for me, and for most people who, you know, moldy [00:19:45] schools, moldy workplaces, moldy homes, you need to be upregulating [00:19:50] detox so that you can either heal or just not get sick in the first place, which is why.[00:19:55]
I think glutathione and broccoli just go together from old people [00:20:00] as something that I did not quite understand that phase one. So I appreciate that you guys shared it. [00:20:05] Glyphosate, a microtoxin, they're at low levels. What happens [00:20:10] with a glyphosate and
Speaker 3: these three phases of detox? So, the thing we've [00:20:15] looked into specifically with a glyphosate and, you know, what, with [00:20:20] our physiology is tight junctions, so the, the gut barrier.
Glyphosate [00:20:25] opens it and so it can cause leaky gut and, uh, intestinal and [00:20:30] permeability. So, and then also with the gap [00:20:35] junction. So the communication network cell to cell, um, which is how, like if you get a cut, [00:20:40] how do you, like, how does your skin know to heal that cut? It, there's a [00:20:45] communication, if you think about it, it's kind of cool.
Communicates and um, and then it [00:20:50] heals. That's the, the communication network, the gap junctions. Well glyphosate [00:20:55] screws up tight junctions, screws up. gap junctions. And so, and [00:21:00] so John created, uh, some series of experiments to show [00:21:05] how the sulfurophane can be protective on glyphosate's [00:21:10] interruption of gap, tight junctions and gap junctions.
That's incredible
Speaker: because [00:21:15] So much of aging and so much of just brain fog and [00:21:20] just feeling like crap and being emotionally reactive. It's because something [00:21:25] opens up the tight gaps in the lining of your gut. And zonulin or [00:21:30] gluten are two common things that we have. Zonulin is from gluten or [00:21:35] from other grains and corn has something called zine.
So these are things that just poke holes in it. And [00:21:40] if you have, toxins called lipopolysaccharides, but basically bad gut bacteria [00:21:45] toxins. We all have some of those, they're normal, but the gut's supposed to stay sealed so that they can't come [00:21:50] through. So then you get glyphosate, which is on all American wheat, and in fact, it's even in like [00:21:55] American wine.
They've soaked our soil in it in beer. Oh, and beer, it's everywhere. [00:22:00] So if you're getting a dose of that and you know you're getting it, but enough to open that gap, then you [00:22:05] wouldn't have had brain fog. You wouldn't have had inflammation, but now you do. So if sulforaphane [00:22:10] is sealing that so that now these toxins can't get through, [00:22:15] that's a massive shift.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's, there's whole review [00:22:20] papers on the connection between nrf2 and gap, gap and, and, uh, [00:22:25] tight junctions. So, we have the best nrf2 inducer in sulforaphane. [00:22:30] And so, it doesn't have problems with bio, bioavailability. It's getting to [00:22:35] that site at a dose that, uh, tightens the tight junctions. And, um, we were really [00:22:40] surprised to find out that the gap junctions also repair.
Um, it's a pretty sophisticated [00:22:45] experiment with the high end microscope, where you load up one of the cells with a [00:22:50] dye that can go through the gap junction. Glyphosate ruined that. So, you load up [00:22:55] this one dye and put it next to, It's neighboring cells, and normally [00:23:00] it spills into the neighboring cells.
You add glyphosate, they don't. It just retracts this little [00:23:05] communication network between cells and then when you add sulforaphane, it [00:23:10] repairs the tight junctions and the gap junctions, and those cells start acting like an organ [00:23:15] again. And so, we for the longest time thought, you know, if you, if you [00:23:20] wanted to start a cascade of things that could lead to bad.
Get all your [00:23:25] cells acting like individuals.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And that is not accurate.
Speaker: [00:23:30] Wow. So the real reason I wanted to chat with you today is that, [00:23:35] well, a few people that we know are using GLP 1 drugs. I mean, a lot of them, [00:23:40] actually. And I'm, I'm actually in favor of microdosing GLP 1 [00:23:45] maybe once a week, 10 percent of the normal dose, terzapatide, for longevity.
And there's [00:23:50] pretty good evidence for that. But that's a very different use case. Yes. That, and people who are. You know, [00:23:55] weakening their bones, of losing muscle mass, and I've done multiple [00:24:00] episodes on, you know, what do you do to counteract those things, but it's still not so good. So I'm interested, [00:24:05] what can we do with natural compounds to affect our GLP 1 system, so maybe you [00:24:10] don't need to spend a thousand dollars a month,
Speaker 3: and maybe you could lose weight.
One of our partners is a [00:24:15] MD, and, um, You know, we had originally said we'll never do [00:24:20] like a weight loss drug because or supplement rather because like you think about [00:24:25] that and you think about, you know, use car salesman or just like, [00:24:30] Cheesy, um, yucky sales tactics. Yes,
Speaker: all that matters is [00:24:35] calories. And then they, you do what they say, and you're stuck on it forever, and it doesn't work, and you hate your life.
[00:24:40] Yeah, might have, might have run into a few of those people.
Speaker 3: Yet, I mean, it's a huge issue, right? Metabolic [00:24:45] syndrome, one in three people I just read a paper getting ready to come on 66 [00:24:50] percent of people over 50 have metabolic syndrome.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: It's like [00:24:55] massive. And so having, um, and that's probably in part why a lot of people [00:25:00] are moving towards these GOP ones, which, as you said, it can, you can [00:25:05] lose up to 40 percent of your muscle mass.
Um, Fra is the weight you lose is [00:25:10] 40 percent muscle. And so that's going the opposite direction. So having a product. [00:25:15] That is natural. That is actually healthy. Um, and gives [00:25:20] you, um, maybe it's not the same results like these huge weight losses, but it's moving [00:25:25] you in the right direction. Um, we wanted to have a product that is an [00:25:30] alternative, uh, and, and, and could really support people who are coming off because not [00:25:35] everybody, somebody may lose their insurance and they can't pay a thousand a month.
And so what are they going [00:25:40] to do? What is metabolic syndrome and
Speaker: how do you know if you have it? [00:25:45]
Speaker 4: Yeah, so metabolic syndrome is the combination of [00:25:50] hypertension increased adiposity.
Speaker: So high blood pressure. And you're fat, okay. Yep.
Speaker 2: [00:25:55] Yeah.
Speaker: And that's,
Speaker 3: that's basically, so like in this, the study I referenced was
Speaker 2: 66% [00:26:00] salt sensitive,
Speaker 3: 66% of the people of over 50 having the, um, [00:26:05] metabolic syndrome, the way they define it, you had to have three of five, uh, um, [00:26:10] two diabetes check checks.
Yeah, check the box of three of these five. So, [00:26:15] blood pressure over. 130 over 85 waist [00:26:20] circumference over 37 and a half inches. You had to either fasting [00:26:25] blood glucose over a hundred or have had a diabetes or pre [00:26:30] diabetes diagnosis. Triglycerides high. I don't remember the exact number. And [00:26:35] cholesterol high both, you know, or, or abnormal.
And I can't remember the ranges of [00:26:40] that. I can't remember.
Speaker: Yeah. And that last one seems, yeah, we were talking about that absurd. Yeah. [00:26:45] Um, it's, it's like the cholesterol statin lobby will insert stuff everywhere. [00:26:50] Same as they do like red meat's bad for you. It's like, guys, you're studying lasagna, like, I'm gonna [00:26:55] blame the noodles.
Like, since we're not being scientific about it, I'm just gonna just pick that one. Or [00:27:00] we could just, you know, do real science, right? Yeah. Yes. Okay. That we, yeah,
Speaker 4: we actually used [00:27:05] to do high fat diet studies and I was always arguing could we just be. [00:27:10] Transparent about it because it's high fat and high carb.
Oh yeah, there's that. It's the chow [00:27:15] you buy. You just say it's high fat chow, but they don't say. Unless you dig in this, you know, the deep part of [00:27:20] the paper. Those are high fat, high
Speaker: carb. And they also never really [00:27:25] tell you, unless you dig deep, what kind of fat was it? Because it's so weird that this one [00:27:30] fat that I made into a billion dollar industry, an MCTO cannot be stored as fat [00:27:35] and causes you to burn more calories.
So, You can't say fat if you don't know what kind of fat. [00:27:40] It's like saying, I'm on a liquid diet. If the liquid is gasoline, you're going to die, right? And if the liquid [00:27:45] is water, you're not going to, like, they're not the same just because they're liquid. So I just, I get so tired [00:27:50] of that,
Speaker 4: right? I can confirm that there's not C8 in any of the high fat diet [00:27:55] studies.
Speaker: Yeah, that is 100 percent true. So you give the mice C8 and, oh wait, they did do that about five [00:28:00] years after I wrote, The book, Mice and Humans, uh, Richard Kuhnain at, uh, [00:28:05] UCSD, I think, did the human study, and magically, this one fat raises ketones, but other [00:28:10] fats don't, and stearic acid stops fatty liver. But canola [00:28:15] makes it, like, there's all this stuff, and so anyway, I guess we could, I could go on a rant for a [00:28:20] whole show about that, but when it comes to metabolic syndrome, The definition that [00:28:25] I first learned was from a book called Syndrome X, and this is a [00:28:30] researcher in the late 90s who first identified metabolic syndrome.
In fact, it was Syndrome X before that, [00:28:35] and it included insulin resistance. Yes. As a part of that, so you have high insulin levels [00:28:40] that don't lower blood sugar. Yes. Because you can have people who have relatively high blood sugar, which probably is not [00:28:45] good for you, but if your insulin is low, Right? Then you don't have that [00:28:50] syndrome.
You might just have high blood sugar, which isn't technically even diabetes. And no one talked about leptin until much [00:28:55] later. And leptin resistance precedes insulin resistance. So the way people know, though, is [00:29:00] you're fat, you're tired, and you have high blood pressure. For the [00:29:05] most part. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, and you can probably walk around the streets and say, I guess pretty [00:29:10] well.
Yeah. Who's metabolically compromised.
Speaker: If you're also likely to [00:29:15] fall asleep at two in the afternoon, your mitochondria aren't making energy as much. You have energy dips and you're [00:29:20] tired, right? That's part of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And circling back to one of the drivers of it, we [00:29:25] already mentioned was endotoxemia.
Ooh. What is that? So [00:29:30] when you get the leaky gut and your LPS is coming off [00:29:35] of the uh, bacteria and going through this side of the walls. [00:29:40] Um, that is turning on a set of pathways that [00:29:45] in the lab we known as the strongest inducers of, um, NF [00:29:50] kappa B. So inflammation.
Speaker: Wow, that's one of the inflammatory cytokines that are sign of [00:29:55] inflammation, just like different fats do different things when people talk about [00:30:00] inflammation.
Well, cool. Inflammation can be expressed through what about a dozen common [00:30:05] cytokines? And so what kind of inflammation do you have? Oh, you mean it might be different? Well, what's [00:30:10] the uniting element? There can be environmental insults, there can be emotional or physical stress, like heat stress or [00:30:15] whatever.
And then this endotoxin thing. So when I was in Africa, [00:30:20] there was one day where I definitely got something I didn't want to eat. And there's a [00:30:25] little known way to drop endotoxins in the gut dramatically. [00:30:30] Orange juice.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker: Very strange. It's probably the Norin, uh, Norinjan, [00:30:35] Norinjan? I forget what it's called.
Yeah, Norinjan. Uh, that's in it. And, uh, there's multiple, multiple studies [00:30:40] about this. So, even though orange juice isn't really a part of my life, I'm like, I'll have the orange juice. And I did [00:30:45] that with a handful of activated charcoal. I let it go through the system for a couple hours, and then I took my [00:30:50] broccoli, which is like, let's get all that toxin out.
So, I turned off the endotoxin production with the orange juice. I [00:30:55] bound the the toxins with the activated charcoal, and then I didn't barf like my daughter [00:31:00] did. And I felt fine the next day, like, whoa, like this [00:31:05] is how powerful it is to understand these systems. That's a pile of heck. [00:31:10] Yeah, barf too, fine.
And interesting with MCT oil, it [00:31:15] turns out all saturated fats can escort endotoxins through the [00:31:20] gut. It's one of the reasons people say high fat diets are bad for you, because if you have bad gut bacteria, and you eat [00:31:25] high fat, it can escort the fat through the lining of the gut. But, strangely, MCT [00:31:30] oil protects the liver from lipopolysaccharides, or endotoxin induced damage, so you can take a [00:31:35] protective thing, And you could also take a protective thing like broccoli, where, okay, [00:31:40] now I have something that will bind to them.
So you're going to take a hit every time you eat, you get some endotoxins, [00:31:45] right? So you might as well tune what you're eating so you don't get brain fog, you don't get tired, and you reverse [00:31:50] this insulin resistance metabolic syndrome. So how much of metabolic syndrome do [00:31:55] you think is actually caused by endotoxins, these gut bacteria getting in?
I think
Speaker 4: it's in the, [00:32:00] it's in the mix. I don't have any idea what percentage, but maybe [00:32:05] it's A common component. I don't know [00:32:10] to what level that, you know, when we do research, it's, it's, you know, you're [00:32:15] always trying to, to simplify it, do the model with the one [00:32:20] inducer. So that's a lot more than you ever see.
Speaker 3: But if you think about it, [00:32:25] like, what are people eating that opens their gut? I mean, glyphosate's [00:32:30] everywhere. Glyphosate's everywhere. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Most people are
Speaker: [00:32:35] probably, I mean, it's probably most, but. I think it's way more than we acknowledge, but I don't have [00:32:40] hard science for it. Sometimes your intuition, you know, you've been studying it for years, like, it's probably pretty big.
Well, you're [00:32:45] very believable, decades at Johns Hopkins and other places. Like, if you [00:32:50] say that's likely, you're way more believable than the average person. And I think it's likely [00:32:55] too, but we don't know the extent. But here's an interesting point. Okay. And [00:33:00] we'll get back to the GLP 1s that affect all of these metabolic pathways, but there have been two studies of [00:33:05] the plaque that's found in our arteries, the soft plaque, the dangerous stuff.
All [00:33:10] of the fat in the plaque is from fermentation in the gut. [00:33:15] Like, all of it. And they're looking at, you know, isotopes to figure this out. Going, oh my gosh, it's not [00:33:20] from eggs. That was absurd and nonsense. And it's not from butter. [00:33:25] And it's not even from canola oil. It's from endotoxin [00:33:30] producing bacteria that are making these sticky fats that go there.
Isn't that weird?
Speaker 4: Man, talk about [00:33:35] a hidden gem.
Speaker: Yeah. It was, uh, I was amazed when I said that. And I, I brought it up in a [00:33:40] debate with this, probably the only vegan cardiologist left. There aren't very many of them because they keep [00:33:45] falling down from dying. But, sorry guys, um, but, uh, I raised my hand, [00:33:50] but that's only two studies.
I'm like, that's not how science works. It's not a democracy of studies. If they're well conducted [00:33:55] studies and these were very solid, then what we believed was wrong.
Speaker 4: [00:34:00] And, and they're even better when they're, they're blinded to their own results because they weren't looking for that. [00:34:05] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no one would have expected that.
That's amazing. One of the parts of the [00:34:10] endotoxin world that I think a lot of people aren't, aware of is that they're kind of like [00:34:15] phospholipids. You know, when you talk about them in biology, you, you, you draw on the, the, the [00:34:20] membrane so that they all look the same, but there's hundreds. Endotoxins are the same [00:34:25] way.
When we use endotoxins to stimulate inflammation, we use it from salmonella. [00:34:30] And so, There are a lot of different structures and they, they activate that, [00:34:35] that cascade very differently and for different strengths. So [00:34:40] what you have in your gut when you eat your glyphosate rich [00:34:45] meal. Could, you know, send you one way or the other and then if [00:34:50] you have either a tight junction or Good [00:34:55] microbiome, it may be less or you would assume that it's less.
So it's [00:35:00] probably a good strategy to try and do both
Speaker: If I know I'm going to go out to a restaurant, and I [00:35:05] know, therefore, I'm going to be getting glyphosate in my food, at least in the U. S., do I pre treat [00:35:10] with sulforaphane, do I take it with the food, or do I take it after the food? Before, for sure. How [00:35:15] long?
Speaker 4: Any amount of time. It's very fast. So, uh, getting, uh, [00:35:20] Getting the tight junctions, um, tight is definitely less than [00:35:25] 15 minutes.
Speaker: Okay, so 15 minutes or more before you eat, you want to take a broccoli if [00:35:30] you're going to be exposed to glyphosate in order to protect the tight junctions in your gut according to the research that you've [00:35:35] done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then the other way around is, is equally as astounding [00:35:40] is, is if you get the, if you get the glyphosate and you disrupt the junction, [00:35:45] it takes a number of days to repair it.
Speaker: Even with sulforaphane?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so [00:35:50] then you want to be on it before you get exposed. Okay, if you eat [00:35:55] grains in the U. S. or actually most of the food you [00:36:00] find at restaurants, you're getting glyphosate.
It is soaked into everything. [00:36:05] Wow, and so how long is the effect if I take your sulforaphane activating [00:36:10] stuff, the broccoli, if I take it, how long will my tight gap junctions [00:36:15] be protected? Is this like a 12 hour, 24 hour effect?
Speaker 4: So, we've done it in [00:36:20] vitro in cell culture and it lasts for
Speaker: days. [00:36:25] Wow. So if you take it every morning or every night, then you're [00:36:30] protected.
Speaker 4: I think it's one of those things where you're bringing a big complex together. It's hard to bring it [00:36:35] together, but when you have it formed, it's one of those principles where each one of the [00:36:40] proteins wants to leave and it has that tendency. But once you get it really stable, [00:36:45] one's trying to leave. while another one's holding it together.
So it's stable [00:36:50] once you, once you make it. And it's there are very few things that can disassemble the [00:36:55] whole thing, but glyphosate's one of them.
Speaker: Yeah I really don't think gluten [00:37:00] is beneficial for anyone, but I did go through a period a few months ago where I [00:37:05] ordered glyphosate free, organic European wheat, which is a different species than [00:37:10] American, much lower in gluten, and then I fermented the crap out of it, [00:37:15] and I made sourdough, And I actually ate it every day for a [00:37:20] month, uh, and at the end of the month, it was not good for me, my joints started hurting the way they did as a [00:37:25] teenager, so I don't recommend that, but I could tolerate it a thousand times better because, like, one teaspoon of American [00:37:30] wheat wrecks my gut and gives me pimples, like, it is so bad.
So you can reduce it, but I don't think gluten is a [00:37:35] regular part of the diet for most of us if we want to live a long time, but it's better than starving, right?
Speaker 4: Yeah. [00:37:40]
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 4: We use the same principle if we're gonna go out and have some [00:37:45] drinks, we'll, we'll have. sulforaphane to protect that [00:37:50] basically formaldehyde that's going to come no matter what.
So [00:37:55] taking it afterwards is not so great idea. I mean, you can do it, but before is [00:38:00] obviously so much better.
Speaker: And alcohol also opens the gap junctions on the gut. [00:38:05] So you might as well pre treat with sulforaphane. For years, I've been recommending a [00:38:10] protocol. If you're going to drink, what do you In fact, it was one of my first very early [00:38:15] popular blog posts way back when it was still bulletproof exec.
And [00:38:20] it was, what do you do to stop that aldehyde spike? You take glutathione, or in this case, you could take [00:38:25] sulforaphane, which is going to benefit even more because it protects the gut in a way the other stuff [00:38:30] doesn't. So since then I've modified the protocols on the blog, right? So there's a [00:38:35] probiotic you can take, but I will add broccoli to that because it's that important [00:38:40] to protect the lining of the gut.[00:38:45]
Now we've talked a lot about. Toxins, because those toxins are intimately tied to [00:38:50] metabolic syndrome, which is tied to being fat the way I used to be 300 pounds was not a fun place [00:38:55] to be. So, if someone's stuck at a fat loss plateau, [00:39:00] what would you do?
Speaker 4: When we first started talking about this issue, we had in mind that [00:39:05] we wanted something that pushed, pushed the right direction.[00:39:10]
Um, pathways, meaning we wanted to do something about [00:39:15] satiety. We wanted to do something about hunger and we wanted to do [00:39:20] something about mitochondrial function and a strange one [00:39:25] is dopamine. So that target was, was [00:39:30] a little bit elusive at first in that it has to do with [00:39:35] this whole area of. non exercise [00:39:40] thermogenesis.
And so, what is that? It's when, what you see [00:39:45] an athlete, they're burning energy more than an [00:39:50] average person. Their non exercise metabolic rate is higher. [00:39:55] And so, dopamine is one of the things that, that regulates that. And so, [00:40:00] we knew that from pretty early on that you can [00:40:05] take EGCG and because that inhibits the screen T extract, that's [00:40:10] the extract exactly.
And it will inhibit com T catechol [00:40:15] O methyltransferase. And that's how dopamine is degraded. And so just a simple [00:40:20] push in that area is, is helpful. And the other one that's another catechol [00:40:25] is noradrenaline. And so. Both of those, a gentle [00:40:30] push, pushes you into this non exercise induced thermogenesis.[00:40:35]
And those were a few of the targets that we're, that we're [00:40:40] chasing. And, um, a good reason to, to bring that up [00:40:45] first after sulforaphane is that one of the targets of sulforaphane that [00:40:50] we, we rarely talk about is this. NQO1, people use it as the [00:40:55] target because it's a really good marker for whether you turn on N or F2.
And so [00:41:00] NQO1 does this thing with quinylation. So it's a new, it's [00:41:05] a new topic, but basically dopamine is gotten rid of by [00:41:10] quin, by quinylating.
Speaker: things. Interesting. [00:41:15] So if you get a dopamine surge, then it's going to break down quickly if you're fast [00:41:20] at quinilating. That's
Speaker 4: right. Okay. Yeah. Quinilation. And so what's [00:41:25] interesting about that is that sulforaphane doesn't just make [00:41:30] these dopamine and norepinephrine longer.
Uh, it's working together with, [00:41:35] with EGCG because it's quinilated also. So it's [00:41:40] making interesting EGCG. Yeah. Interesting. longer lasting. [00:41:45] EGCG is making an effect of sulforaphane better. [00:41:50]
Speaker: Oh, okay. So there's a rate at which your body can quinolate [00:41:55] things. So you're stuffing your quinolation things with EGCG and sulforaphane [00:42:00] so that they'll compete with dopamine.
So dopamine lasts longer because the body's [00:42:05] quinolating. That's a new
Speaker 4: word for me. I kind of like it. Yeah, quinolation. And [00:42:10] so any catecholamines, so norepinephrine, dopamine, and then it turns [00:42:15] out that EGCG is a quinolation. Catecholamine, basically, and it's quinolated to [00:42:20] be gotten rid of. So these two are talking to each other in a really kind of subtle and beautiful [00:42:25] way.
Which I think, it's hard to directly say that, you [00:42:30] know, a happier person is, Less metabolically challenged. Why [00:42:35] is it hard to say? I don't know, I just think biochemically I have a tough time with it. Why? I [00:42:40] studied the kidney and I, I, the brain is just a big giant jumble of unknown to me. [00:42:45]
Speaker: I, I just got it from a straight up mitochondrial effect.
We know that [00:42:50] mitochondrial function is very high in the prefrontal cortex and we know that your ability to [00:42:55] regulate your emotions is tied to that. So everyone who's ever been hypoglycemic or [00:43:00] hangry knows what happens when you're dealing with lower mitochondrial function.
Speaker 5: Yeah,
Speaker: right like that. This is a [00:43:05] known thing and I multiple things and Let's see, what was that book?
That was Head [00:43:10] Strong, which was my, like, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Cognitive Enhancement book. Yeah, I get smiles from that. [00:43:15] Does it make sense, though? And, and now, as a former obese person, when I was really [00:43:20] fat, my ability to manage my emotions was lower because so much of my mitochondrial output [00:43:25] went into making fat and dealing with toxins instead of making dopamine [00:43:30] instead of making neurotransmitters and instead of powering my brain.
So it's an energetic imbalance. [00:43:35] So, and there are actually studies out there and people ask me to cite them. I'm like, [00:43:40] you go to chat GPT same as I would, right? But If you are carrying a lot of [00:43:45] extra weight, it is harder to regulate your behavior, harder to regulate your cravings, [00:43:50] and harder to regulate your, the way you treat other people, your emotional regulation.
And it's not because you're a bad [00:43:55] person, it's because there's a net amount of energy available, and it wasn't [00:44:00] going to your brain the way it should. And that's why fixing metabolism makes people happier. Because, wow, I [00:44:05] didn't
Speaker 4: yell at my kids. Outside of my kids. Like, science, it rang so [00:44:10] true to me, it's like, when am I, I'm a pretty even person, if [00:44:15] my gut doesn't feel good, man is that super obvious that my emotions [00:44:20] get un, unruly.
I am not a good patient. Right.
Speaker: Ha ha ha. I [00:44:25] think it's true of all people, and it's funny because how many of us have said I'm such a bad person, I [00:44:30] can't believe I did that. I'm like, no, your gut integrity was off, you had toxins [00:44:35] circulating that caused your brain to be inflamed, and your mitochondria have an issue making enough energy because you're metabolically [00:44:40] resistant.
So let's fix that. And one way is, we could go, you know, [00:44:45] inject a thousand dollar drug, or we could address the breakdown of catecholamines, which you [00:44:50] beautifully talked about. And, Your GL Perfect, which obviously GLP is in [00:44:55] the title supplement, assuming what you just talked about, you've got the Berb [00:45:00] Elite, which is berberine but actually we haven't talked about berberine, but it has [00:45:05] berberine and it has EGCG and alpha lipoic acid.
So, [00:45:10] what, what's working with these things and why does GL Perfect not [00:45:15] have sulforaphane for broccolite in it?
Speaker 3: One of the things, yeah, to keep in mind is [00:45:20] EGCG EGCG is fat soluble, not a lot of it, and when you drink just [00:45:25] regular green tea, it gets through your gut barrier. I think it's a couple percent [00:45:30] bioavailable.
There's not very much in there.
Speaker: It's, it's the same as broccoli. Two and a half pounds of broccoli to get [00:45:35] one little capsule, or drink ten glasses of green tea to get the tiniest dose of [00:45:40] EGCG. Oh, and no one talks about this. Green tea is full of [00:45:45] oxalate, which clogs your kidneys, 70 percent of kidney stones, I think it's a major cause of aging that's under, [00:45:50] uh, under respected.
Green tea also blocks your ability to use folic acid or folate, [00:45:55] uh, which is a problem, so you have to take more of it. You also, I think, need more biotin when you're taking it, [00:46:00] if memory serves right. So, uh, Yes, one to two cups of green tea is correlated with [00:46:05] living longer. It's good for you from polyphenols.
But if you want to use green tea pharmaceutically like [00:46:10] EGCG, you cannot do it without overwhelming the system, right? So, okay, so [00:46:15] we're going to do this extract. By the way, I take EGCG every single day. I [00:46:20] absolutely rely on it because I only have nine companies and I've got this whole life and stuff. And [00:46:25] man, having my, Dopamine where it needs to be and more importantly, you said [00:46:30] norepinephrine, which no one even talks about noradrenaline is another name when that is low.
People [00:46:35] are are depressed. They're anxious. They're low energy, but it's not even something that most [00:46:40] biohackers talk about. And it rides with dopamine, right? It's made in the same ways. So [00:46:45] What is GLPerfect doing for noradrenaline versus dopamine, and [00:46:50] why does it make such a big difference?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so EGCG is, is through that [00:46:55] COMT inhibition that I was talking about, makes norepinephrine.
And it's [00:47:00] probably a good reason not to take it right before you go to bed. I mean, the [00:47:05] first part, yeah, if you, if you, You can, you know, muster your way through it. But some people are sensitive to [00:47:10] having Most people shouldn't take
Speaker: Adeniac. Yeah. So, uh, we were talking before the show, [00:47:15] guys. I take Tyrosine, which is stimulating, and helps you make [00:47:20] Dopamine and Norepinephrine.
Uh, it's a precursor. And I take EGCG and I take [00:47:25] Rhodiola before I go to bed. And it benefits me. But it should not. This is a [00:47:30] bad idea for you. But, I did that last night. I got two hours of deep sleep [00:47:35] and an hour and a half of REM in seven total hours. After doing that, which [00:47:40] is a little bit better than average, right?
Why? Because I have low blood pressure, and I'm just keeping my blood [00:47:45] pressure high. Wow. Right? Uh, so, like, there's a lot of nuance, and this is another [00:47:50] reason why I will do this episode. We'll talk about why the stuff you make works, and [00:47:55] when to use it. But I will never tell anyone, here's all the stuff that I take.
Because I know that [00:48:00] you would go out there, and you would go, and you'd spend 3, 000 a month on supplements like I do. [00:48:05] And you would shit your pants and stay up all night because my biology is different and so there's [00:48:10] every person is different, right? And if I did what you did, I wouldn't like it. And if you did what he did, he wouldn't like it.
[00:48:15] So personalization matters. That's why I teach ingredients. I teach pathways only because we have to [00:48:20] make our own stack. Unfortunately, AI is making it easier. And we've got the virtual Dave thing [00:48:25] that's about to come out with one of these where I'm teaching people how to do all this. Because it has to be custom, [00:48:30] that's why you'll never see me put 50 ingredients together.
But, what you're doing [00:48:35] with GLPerfect, you have basically three ingredients. You have, [00:48:40] uh, Bioavailable Berberine, EGTG, and Ophalopoic Acid. [00:48:45] Now, bioavailable, you've done something that's not even really [00:48:50] disclosed here. You've made it five times more available than normal stuff. What did you [00:48:55] do? 250 times more bioavailable.
Oh, 250. Oh, I was wrong a little bit. So, you're [00:49:00] saying that this dose of EGCG, which is 50 milligrams, relatively small, I think I'd take 100 [00:49:05] of regular stuff if I'm not using, you just said this to me, so I'm switching over. This isn't [00:49:10] 250 times more bioavailable, so this is like a massive dose of EGCG. It is, yeah.
I have [00:49:15] yet to try this. You've literally just sent it to me, so I'm kind of scared to try
Speaker 3: it. Am I gonna? [00:49:20] Maybe not it. Maybe not. I'll take this one in the morning. Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, try it first. [00:49:25] The, the, the vibe, like the mental, it's a feeling of wellness. [00:49:30] Like it's an, I've got this energy, which is the original, like, like, uh, [00:49:35] ethos.
Behind a lot of biohacking is if you just have enough energy, your stress goes down because, you know, you can [00:49:40] handle whatever comes your way. And EGCG is way under respected for that, but if you're [00:49:45] getting it in 250 times better, I could take a whole bottle of it, and it wouldn't come in as much as one of [00:49:50] these capsules.
Speaker 3: And so, one of the things that people notice [00:49:55] pretty immediately when they take even one capsule is, So, just to take two as a normal dose? [00:50:00] Yeah, I'll take four. Is um, they're, they're not hungry. And so they're TP for my tongue. [00:50:05] Oh, sorry. They're Grelin. So basically EGCG downregulates [00:50:10] Grelin, the, the hunger hormone.
And so I did not know that. Yes. [00:50:15] And so like when we first made it, like we're all taking it and [00:50:20] everyone is like, are you hungry? I'm not hungry. Like no hunger. Now that's different [00:50:25] than a GOP wine where yeah. You can not be hungry, and it's [00:50:30] hard to eat because your, uh, gut motility's slow, you may have your stomach acid may [00:50:35] be kind of screwed up, you may be a little bit nauseous if you're having, uh, side effects.
[00:50:40] Whereas with this, you're not hungry, but if you eat, you can eat. Like, you, it's [00:50:45] fine to eat. It doesn't make you nauseous, you just don't want to
Speaker: eat. You just, yeah, aren't hungry to eat. I've [00:50:50] said on another episode of the show, The longevity benefits of low [00:50:55] dose retrotrutide, which is one of the, the GLP ones, like the most [00:51:00] active on glucagon, bunch of reasons to take it, even at a 10 percent of the normal dose, [00:51:05] I feel like crap for two days.
I'm nauseous, my energy is low, and I just don't like my life. So, [00:51:10] I am apparently a strong reactor, I cannot take that stuff and function the way I do, even though I [00:51:15] know it might be good for me. Sure. So, My only option would be to activate it [00:51:20] the way you're talking about, and just by getting my EGCG levels high enough, which apparently I can't do, or at least [00:51:25] I wasn't, because if I was taking 100 milligrams of normal and you've got 50 milligrams of [00:51:30] 250x, how do you make it absorb so well?
Like, that's totally, [00:51:35] like, that's a big number. That's more than liposomes would do.
Speaker 3: Much more, yes. So basically [00:51:40] Um, we have a patent pending on a carrier molecule. And so basically [00:51:45] we have, uh, a protein that we attach a, a C, uh, it's a, it's a [00:51:50] plant protein, um, that we attach a C based carbohydrate to, and we make it kind of the [00:51:55] unique molecule that we then attach the polyphenol.
So in this [00:52:00] case, EGCG and berberine are attached to that, uh, molecule.
Speaker: I don't see that molecule on here. How [00:52:05] come? We
Speaker 3: basically talk about the bioavailable. Uh, so that's [00:52:10] what that's the complex. Okay. It's the powder. Got it. Okay. Yeah. Cool. With that [00:52:15] complex, basically it's, we, we like to talk about it as like smuggling, uh, because [00:52:20] it's actually hidden inside the protein.
It's like smuggling it
Speaker: through the gut. And you recommend one [00:52:25] capsule with your first meal and one capsule with your last meal, even at dinner. It's not going to give me [00:52:30] up. It depends on when you eat dinner. So, okay. I grab a dinner. An early dinner. [00:52:35] Yeah. All right. So I just took four of them on an empty stomach and I haven't eaten today.
What's going to happen to me? I
Speaker 3: [00:52:40] have no idea. I'm going to talk to the class. I will say this. Like we have had to, [00:52:45] to like two of our, like one friend, one employee take take it and they have the opposite [00:52:50] effect. And so it does actually, it makes them hungry. It does. Yeah. And so [00:52:55] the, the, the rationale there is the Burberry.
Drops your blood glucose on it. [00:53:00] And this one, uh, because it's so bioavailable, it drops it really well. And [00:53:05] so, for example, my blood sugar is typically under a hundred. I measured it. I [00:53:10] do a finger prick one day. It was 115. I'm like, oh crap. And so I take three. [00:53:15] And two hours later, it was 70. Um, John took [00:53:20] his was like 95.
He took one, I think he took [00:53:25] one. And 45 minutes later, it was 82. It went up a little bit. No, [00:53:30] 95 to 82. Really quickly. Got it. Yeah. And that's no exercise. I was sitting at
Speaker: [00:53:35] a
Speaker 3: desk.
Speaker: Okay, so I've been taking berberine, which is your [00:53:40] berberine product for a while And I I like I take it pretty much anytime I eat.[00:53:45]
Does this replace that
Speaker 3: the gel perfect? So it depends on what you're going for. So it's a [00:53:50] different form so this one, the, the one in berberine isn't bound to the protein. We [00:53:55] add the broccoli powder as the bioavailable mechanism. Okay. So I could [00:54:00] take that and this? You could. Yeah, I do. I do. Got it.
Speaker 4: The way we, we separate those [00:54:05] two, two products is berberine has a big effect on your [00:54:10] microbiome.
Yes. And so. Cool. Especially Akkermansia induction generally changed the [00:54:15] BB two F ratio. Mm. You wanna explain that, but the, the general [00:54:20] designation is B bacteria. Hmm. To firm, acutes [00:54:25] improves and, and so. By doing those kind of three big [00:54:30] changes, berberine helps a lot of people. And so when you have a very, like in, [00:54:35] in the very high bioavailable berberine, most of it's going in, you're not [00:54:40] delivering as much to your gut.
Speaker: So I take GL Perfect for metabolic effects, or I [00:54:45] take berberine for microbiome effects, and some blood sugar.
Speaker 3: Okay. [00:54:50] So basically there's a, one of our favorite papers is looking, it's a mouse study [00:54:55] showing that berberine outperforms A volume as a sleep aid. So what? [00:55:00] By increasing, it increases, um, serotonin 30%, increases dopamine [00:55:05] 25%.
I had no idea. As a sleep aid burden? Yeah, in fact, [00:55:10] I found that paper after I surveyed our use, our Berberlite users, like what are you [00:55:15] guys using it for, thinking, ketosis? 75 percent of the people who answered the survey [00:55:20] were using it for sleep, and I'm like, what? And so, went to PubMed, found this paper, and I'm [00:55:25] like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Speaker: But it doesn't have Valium like effects during the day at all. [00:55:30] Berberine doesn't help suppress your brain. Interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it came up because we [00:55:35] were, we were suggesting that, In the original study I did, I looked at ketones as well as [00:55:40] blood sugar, and it would kick you into ketosis faster. And I would take it first [00:55:45] thing in the morning to get into ketosis, a little bit deeper ketosis.
But if you take it [00:55:50] a couple hours after dinner, you can get into ketosis by the time you [00:55:55] wake up. Wow. And so I think that's how people started getting [00:56:00] really interested in, in taking it before bed and then people were finding out that [00:56:05] they're sleeping and, um, I think that happened simultaneously with the paper [00:56:10] basically.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll keep, I'll take a couple burbleets, a couple of broccolets before bed and I'll keep [00:56:15] one of each by my bed as well as our sleep product, we have a sleep elite product that's mainly broccolet and [00:56:20] burbleet. But if I take that one, if I wake up at the three, inevitably that [00:56:25] sleep from like three to six, three to seven is the best sleep.
I will, you know, wake up. I'm like. [00:56:30] So you wake
Speaker: up to pee, you take a couple and then you get that really good, just [00:56:35] amazing, amazing dreams. Well, that would make sense because the first half [00:56:40] of your sleep, especially if it was dark before bed, or you're the two darks, you have an early dinner, you get [00:56:45] all of your deep sleep pretty much before midnight, maybe before one or two.
And then after that, you should switch [00:56:50] into REM. But if you're having a metabolic crash, which a lot of people get, that's what wakes them up. [00:56:55] Um, because their metabolism doesn't work, they're beginning to get metabolic syndrome. So they have blood sugar crash, [00:57:00] body says, Ah! Adrenaline! Cortisol! And then they wake up, but they can't go back to sleep.
So, [00:57:05] if they take, this is, you take your sleep product then? Or you take I'll take one, one [00:57:10] Sleep Elite. One berberine, one broccoli. Oh, because you do all three right there at like three in the [00:57:15] morning. Yeah. And then you just get all the REM sleep you want. That's a neat hack. I will try [00:57:20] that tonight if I wake up at three.
I'll drink extra water so I wake up at three.
Speaker 4: Waking up [00:57:25] to take a sleep product sounds a little counterintuitive.
Speaker: I'll set an alarm. One of [00:57:30] the long standing supplements in longevity and biohacking is alpha lipoic acid. It's [00:57:35] so good for mitochondria. I think I've written about it in three or four of my books.
And. [00:57:40] You guys have an interesting perspective that it might work better with berberine [00:57:45] than without it. Why?
Speaker 4: Berberine, one of its known targets, probably its [00:57:50] best known target is amkinase activation. And so, [00:57:55] lipoic acid induces as well, but by, by [00:58:00] different mechanisms. So they, they are both [00:58:05] inducing this fasting mimic state.
Speaker 3: It's a master metabolic switch, really. [00:58:10]
Speaker 4: Okay. And so the two of those together work really nicely. And, [00:58:15] um, I think the, the, the reason to, we, one of the big reasons we put lipoic [00:58:20] acid in there, of course, is to stimulate mitochondria. It's in the middle of everything. And [00:58:25] and, but the other one is this glucose sink idea where you, [00:58:30] It acts a little bit like insulin in that in a person who's [00:58:35] insulin resistant, you can get glucose to go into their muscles
Speaker: just by taking off a [00:58:40] little poke acid.
Yeah. So what do you stack it with berberine and product
Speaker 4: case of if you're [00:58:45] trying to lower blood sugars, you're getting Yeah. Yeah. Glucose out of the blood [00:58:50] by going into your, into your muscles. That lowers your blood glucose. And then [00:58:55] amp kinase is this fasting mimic amp kinase thing where [00:59:00] you go into this state that is like fasting.
And that is, [00:59:05] metabolically, you are stimulating autophagy mTOR, [00:59:10] uh, all the, all those pathways that are classically m kinase [00:59:15] centric and why we fast the, the cleanup crew, the, [00:59:20] um, as well as, you know, this, this lowering of glucose.
Speaker 3: And, and really, and if you think [00:59:25] about where we talked about metabolic syndrome, Um, berberine and, uh, alpha [00:59:30] glucic acid do the opposite.
It's like opposite of each bullet point. So it's pushing [00:59:35] against the metabolic syndrome and promoting [00:59:40] metabolic health.
Speaker: Wow. Well, I think it's a really [00:59:45] noble mission to say, all right, 1 drugs. And if [00:59:50] you're using them for weight loss, they come at a cost. There is substantial [00:59:55] risk. And I have no problem with using them for weight loss, if that's what people want to do, I'm not judging at all about it, [01:00:00] like, not being fat is a very important technique for living [01:00:05] longer and just being more present in your body, like, losing 100 pounds is a [01:00:10] unfathomably important, and by any means necessary, I'm into that.
Not doing [01:00:15] harm along the way would also be important. And your idea that you're going to push on all these pathways [01:00:20] by synergistically including like a system of things, I think it's, it's really cool. [01:00:25] And one of the innovations that's most important In supplements, it's not about [01:00:30] taking something, it's about getting it into the body.
And you've got a [01:00:35] 250x delivery system here, which is really phenomenal. I [01:00:40] kind of like to make fun of the calories in Calories Out People. They're like, well, [01:00:45] it's calories in, and I go, great, eat a gram of uranium, that's a million calories, you're going to get fat. They go, well, you can't absorb [01:00:50] that. I go, exactly.
Right, so, a lot of people waste money on [01:00:55] supplements because they, Either they don't work synergistically, or you just can't get it in. [01:01:00] Right? Because only a tiny amount crosses. So you've stacked them the right way [01:01:05] and you just shared a whole bunch of knowledge. Some things I didn't know about. I didn't know I was a quintilator.
Now I am. [01:01:10] So, so this is something that if you're looking to lose weight or just get your energy back, it's worth trying. [01:01:15] And because you're cool, 28 percent off for listeners. It's Mara, M [01:01:20] A R A dash labs slash Dave and 28 percent off. [01:01:25] Tried Yale Perfect. I just tried four of them on an empty stomach, maybe more than you should.
I'll tell you what [01:01:30] happens. Uh, but, this is, this is just cool, this is well [01:01:35] formulated, it's why I like having you on, because there's a lot of, you know, 25 year olds [01:01:40] who are saying, well, I read a couple things, I asked ChatGPT, and I went to a white label manufacturer, and I threw this stuff together, [01:01:45] and put it up on Amazon, and made some nice labels.
It's not how it works, like, it's hard to [01:01:50] do this kind of science, and you guys are just, you know, decades of experience, so thank you for just really bringing [01:01:55] it, because mara labs, mara labs.
Speaker 3: com slash Dave. For, [01:02:00] and you can get broccoli on that link as well. We do have a hundred day unconditional money back [01:02:05] guarantee.
So that encourages people just to give it a try. There you go, guys.
Speaker: [01:02:10] Try, try the sleep stuff. Try this. If it doesn't work, send it back. And how many [01:02:15] people send the products back? between one and 2%. There you go. So [01:02:20] that's hard science about whether it works or not. Cool. Thank you for coming to Austin again.[01:02:25]
Thanks for just continuing to do the weird, hard research and just being deep supplement [01:02:30] nerds, my favorite kind of people. Thanks for having us, Dave. It's been good to be here. See you [01:02:35] next time on the Human Upgrade [01:02:40] Podcast.