Dave: [00:00:00] AI will never be able to attach communication to emotions [00:00:05] second by second. They won't be able to process the emotions, and it won't be able to create the emotions. So, [00:00:10] we have to hold on to the things that makes us human. And this is so evident, and [00:00:15] science is proving this more and more. We are listening to science.
Sounds that are changing the way our [00:00:20] brain functions. It's time that we started making the sounds, [00:00:25] the healing sounds that change the way our brains work, [00:00:30] change the tension level, change the optimization, change the stress level, [00:00:35] change. The get up and go, activate, step it up level. So we have to make [00:00:40] sound.
We're our own sound healing machines.
Host: Roger Love is the world's leading [00:00:45] voice coach behind the success of stars like Bradley Cooper, Reese Witherspoon, and Selena [00:00:50] Gomez.
Bradley: Roger Love, this incredible vocal coach. I worked with him five days a week for months, yeah.
Host: World [00:00:55] renowned voice coach who's helped shape countless careers.
He's transformed the way Hollywood sings and [00:01:00] speaks, proving that the right voice can change everything. You say to me I have a headache, [00:01:05] Roger, and I say,
Dave: go, Ah, ee. [00:01:10] And do that three times and your headache goes away. Here's the test for tone deafness for [00:01:15] anyone that is listening.
You're listening to The Human Upgrade with Dave [00:01:20] Asprey.[00:01:25]
Hey guys, quick reminder. If you're listening to this on your favorite audio [00:01:30] podcast app and you haven't been over to my YouTube channel, check it out. Just search for the human upgrade or [00:01:35] find me under Dave Asprey BPR. I post full video versions of every episode and a bunch of [00:01:40] other cool content outside the pod.
It's a great way to go deeper into the content and connect with [00:01:45] other biohackers like you. So leave a comment for me. Yeah, I'm actually going to read them. And poke around while [00:01:50] you're there. There is a lot of stuff specifically for you. It really helps, and it means a lot to me. [00:01:55] I want you to listen to this episode without speeding it up.
[00:02:00] And when you get about halfway through, you're going to hear exactly why. Because you will [00:02:05] learn things from Roger if you listen to this just at normal speed, even if that feels [00:02:10] painful for you. Just trust me, do that, and you'll thank me at the end. If you're [00:02:15] a long time listener, you might remember the episode with Roger Love.[00:02:20]
Now, he sounds like he would be maybe some kind of porn [00:02:25] star with a name like that. But that's not what he does. He's actually a voice coach. And [00:02:30] if you've heard the audiobooks or you like the sound of my voice, it's probably his fault. [00:02:35] And if you hate the sound of my voice, it's definitely his fault.
Because [00:02:40] Roger is, I would say, maybe the most acclaimed, if not one of the most acclaimed, [00:02:45] voice coaches for singers and celebrities. When Bradley Cooper [00:02:50] wanted to learn how to sing for A Star is Born, he called Roger [00:02:55] Love. And I met Roger through my friend, Ken Rutkowski, who runs a group called [00:03:00] Metal, years ago.
And I said, you know, I want to do some voice training, more just to learn how to [00:03:05] sing as a way of neurologically re regulating. But then Roger's on the call, he's like, [00:03:10] Dave, I've been drinking your coffee, like, let's do this. So here I am, having [00:03:15] voice lessons from the world's best. And it's [00:03:20] not just about singing, which I still would say I maybe didn't do anything he told me in the lessons, but it [00:03:25] changed my speaking voice and my ability to intonate.
And I've actually demoed this with [00:03:30] multiple guests, like Kasia Urbanaek was on talking about [00:03:35] bringing her voice from different parts of the anatomy and demoed it. And so the ability to do this, it's a [00:03:40] new human performance skill. And I think you're one of the best in the world at that. So thank you for coming back on the [00:03:45] show.
Thank you for that intro. Aren't you just born
with your voice? People think that they're [00:03:50] born with a voice, but you're born with an instrument. [00:03:55] And you have to learn how to play it like any other instrument. [00:04:00] So most people have no idea what to do with it. So they imitate the people that are [00:04:05] around them.
So if your mother speaks very, very airy, and you really, really [00:04:10] want breast milk, then you say, Mommy hungry as soon as she could speak.
Roger: And if your [00:04:15] dad talks like this, and you want to go fishing, then And you speak to your dad, and he's like, Daddy, [00:04:20] fishing.
Dave: So you imitate, you imitate the voices that you grew up with, and suddenly [00:04:25] you're a young adult or an adult, and you think that's your voice, but it's just all the people you've [00:04:30] imitated.
And so, I come in and I say, here's the instrument, here's what's [00:04:35] possible, you could, you could have a completely different voice than what you were born with.
So if your parents [00:04:40] played, like, toxic bluegrass on their instruments, you could learn how to be a smooth [00:04:45] saxophone kind of guy.
Whatever you learn, you assimilate, and you [00:04:50] think that that's part of who you are, and then you offer that [00:04:55] you to the public.
Is there any kind of bluegrass that's not toxic? [00:05:00] Sorry.
My apologies. Sorry, Dad. Just kidding. My knowledge of [00:05:05] bluegrass is limited.
Thankfully, so is mine. I have [00:05:10] no idea if my parents still listen to this show, but my dad plays bluegrass, but it's one of those, like, very different [00:05:15] genres, is all I'm saying.
Yeah,
but when you, if, if your parents would have played bluegrass music, and bluegrass [00:05:20] music was playing in the middle of you walking into the supermarket, you'd be nostalgic for a [00:05:25] second and think, oh, I'm feeling a little emotional. I'd
be feeling traumatized. Have you not heard that stuff? [00:05:30] Oh my god. Do you know what instrument they used to tune a banjo?
Roger: A piano?
Dave: [00:05:35] Wire cutters. Just the length of the string? No, you just cut all the wires, which makes it sound [00:05:40] better. There, you got [00:05:45] it. We could go on and on about, uh, about bluegrass jokes, but These are things I've never spoken [00:05:50] about, so this is a very unique interview already. You're like working with the top musicians on earth, and none of them are in [00:05:55] bluegrass.
See, that's all I'm saying. So, I don't know why I'm just saying that. There's so much for me to learn. I apologize, [00:06:00] Cale. You are my designated target, and I have been varying in my hatred for you. Okay. [00:06:05] You can tell I'm very hate fueled. Alright. Let's get back to the voice. There's [00:06:10] singing, and then there's speaking.
And what's going on inside your [00:06:15] body when you do each of those?
Most people think singing and speaking is completely different. But [00:06:20] basically you have control over pitch, pace, tone, melody, and volume when [00:06:25] you sing or you speak. And the vocal cords are pretty much doing the same thing. [00:06:30] Air in, into the lungs, Air out of the lungs, going through the [00:06:35] vocal cords, coming out of your mouth.
I say, the problem is that people think it's two [00:06:40] different things, but singing and speaking is almost exactly the same thing. And, and, [00:06:45] there's so much scientific evidence about what music does to, [00:06:50] The listener's brain and my whole thing is about taking everything that [00:06:55] is musical about music and putting it into the speaking voice so that [00:07:00] when you're speaking to someone, they think you're speaking their favorite song and you move [00:07:05] them emotionally.
I did learn that when you were coaching me and I went in and I've [00:07:10] read all of my audio books since you trained me and I do hear feedback. People saying, [00:07:15] I really like listening to that. It's different. And one of the most important [00:07:20] things that I learned from you was what to do with my stomach when I'm speaking.
What should [00:07:25] people do with their stomach when they're speaking?
People are so obsessed with [00:07:30] having their stomachs not stick out and look overweight [00:07:35] that they forget to realize that diaphragmatic breathing, the best way to make [00:07:40] sound, is to breathe. It's necessary to allow your stomach to come a [00:07:45] little bit forward.
So you're supposed to inhale through your nose, because there's filters in the nose called [00:07:50] turbinates. And again, you're thinking of, well, the filters stop bad things from [00:07:55] going into your system. But the reason I'm interested in, in those filters is because when you breathe in through your nose, [00:08:00] it becomes moist air.
So then when it goes to your throat, you end up being able to [00:08:05] speak or sing for hours and hours and hours because your cords are hydrated. So you breathe in through your [00:08:10] nose. You just let your stomach come forward a tiny bit, that's enough. [00:08:15] And then, here's the big thing. You're only supposed to speak or sing [00:08:20] while your stomach is coming in.
It's why an accordion goes [00:08:25] out, and then an accordion goes in. So, unless your stomach is coming in [00:08:30] while you're speaking, you're holding your breath. Watch this. [00:08:35] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. [00:08:40] 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. People are talking like this all the time because they're [00:08:45] not letting their stomachs come forward and then paying attention.
I'm [00:08:50] only supposed to speak while my stomach is coming in.
So the [00:08:55] people were talking like their stomach's in all the time, so it's coming from their upper chest, right?
Little [00:09:00] tiny bits of air are managing to escape from the lungs instead of [00:09:05] you just controlling the way that air comes to the vocal cords out of the [00:09:10] lungs.
Air wants to get out of your body. When you try to hold it in, There's [00:09:15] poison components in air, so air desperately wants to come out. Your job is [00:09:20] to relax your stomach and let your stomach come in the whole time. You're speaking. That's the [00:09:25] only way to have a beautiful voice.
Okay. Here's something that I, I never understood.
[00:09:30] I'm just going to show off my stomach here. Okay. So you can fill up your stomach, like. [00:09:35] That's gonna be too full, because that would look stupid, right?
Yeah, but not just look stupid, there's no reason to fill up your [00:09:40] stomach that much. People are trying to take these giant breaths, but there's already air in [00:09:45] your lungs.
Okay. 48 hours after you, you're passed and you're dead, there's still 25 [00:09:50] percent air in your lungs.
So this is just more like, uh, a, It's squeezing, but it's squeezing the air up here, it's just come, the [00:09:55] squeeze is coming from down here.
You're not supposed to squeeze. You're supposed to, you don't mind if I don't show my [00:10:00] stomach.
No, but here's my question though. Okay, so like, so my stomach's full, and now I'm gonna [00:10:05] start talking. I'm gonna start talking some more, I'm gonna start talking some more, but I'm capable of bringing my stomach in like a really far [00:10:10] distance like that, and I'm, like, how far in does the stomach go before you're like, Ah!
Okay, so [00:10:15] how do I know when my stomach is in far enough? Like, there's too far out and there's too far in, and what do I do? [00:10:20] Okay, perfect question.
You're not supposed to let your stomach go too far out. Right. Because you don't need [00:10:25] that much air. You're going to take a breath in seconds.
Okay.
And then you're not supposed to pull your [00:10:30] stomach in at all.
You're very good at pulling your stomach in. But
I want to finish my sentence. If I can just pull my [00:10:35] stomach in even more, my stomach will keep going in while I keep talking and talking and talking. But
when you pull it in, you're doing the [00:10:40] equivalent of holding your breath because you're still tightening the muscles.
Okay. And that's stopping free [00:10:45] flow of air. So you want to relax the whole time, you don't move in. You don't want to tighten at all in your stomach. I wish I [00:10:50] knew that all these books are good. Check this out. And, and, if you're listening to this, put your hands on your tummy, [00:10:55] okay? Take a breath, and then just go like this.
Stop trying to pull your [00:11:00] stomach in. Let the air come out based on this. You see [00:11:05] how slowly your stomach comes in?
Yeah.
That's what's supposed to happen. Oh no,
I've been doing it [00:11:10] wrong. What kind of a coach are you, Roger? I'm just kidding. So I probably [00:11:15] have been pulling it in too forcefully then. Yeah.
When you say, I've been pulling it in, too.
[00:11:20] Pulling it in was the end of the sentence. You're not supposed to pull it in. The air will escape [00:11:25] on its own. So you're relaxing the air in. Exactly. People are creating all kinds of [00:11:30] tension that they don't need. Tension here makes tension here makes tension here.
Suddenly you're a tense person.
In [00:11:35] my first big book, like a decade ago in the Bulletproof Diet, I had a chapter on [00:11:40] functional movement. You know, do you walk properly? Do you move properly? And it [00:11:45] turns out I did none of those properly. I'm still working on that. You know, most people don't tighten their [00:11:50] feet the right way.
And like, there's all kinds of subtle nuances that radically affect how your brain [00:11:55] works, how your body moves, your stress response, and all that. And it feels like [00:12:00] functional breathing and speech are maybe even more important than functional [00:12:05] movement, but no one talks about those in the world of biohacking.
Why don't [00:12:10] people look at breathing and speech or singing as [00:12:15] core neurological skills? They
should, of course. But what they don't [00:12:20] understand is most people are not even doing diaphragmatic breathing. They're breathing into their mouths. [00:12:25] They're drying out their throats, their stomachs are not moving out and in, so that the [00:12:30] facility of even breathing correctly seems to have be elusive to a lot of people.
But [00:12:35] breathing is so simple. You breathe in through your nose, you keep your lips closed, your stomach comes [00:12:40] forward, and then, and then the reason that people haven't also equated how important [00:12:45] breath is to speech is because most people don't speak properly. With any breath [00:12:50] coming out, one of the most prevalent sounds is what I call the [00:12:55] squeaky hinge.
Like he just bought a door and you don't have any WD 40 on it. And every time the door [00:13:00] opens, squeak, squeak. So people are talking like this. I can't even watch reality [00:13:05] television anymore because everyone talks like this. There's no air coming out of most people's voices anymore. [00:13:10] So they've lost this idea of, Singing is a solid [00:13:15] stream of air.
But when you talk, you're just sending these little [00:13:20] tiny bursts of air. So people have lost the ability to use breathing [00:13:25] perfectly for speaking. They understand [00:13:30] solid air flow when you sing, but they do sputter air when you [00:13:35] speak. And that's what they need to fix. If everybody was thinking [00:13:40] solid air coming out of my mouth and the words riding out on that air, [00:13:45] then speaking and singing would be the same thing.
Then breathing for speaking and singing would be the [00:13:50] same thing. And it would be healthy because it's air in, no pressure, [00:13:55] solid air out.
What does having vocal training do [00:14:00] for your attractiveness?
Attractiveness?
Mm hmm.
Wow. Well, it [00:14:05] makes you sound more attractive to others because Oh, no, not [00:14:10] that. Because people judge you based on the way that they hear you.[00:14:15]
There's tons of evidence Yeah. That suggests that if, if, if [00:14:20] I speak down low in my chest voice That I am suddenly more [00:14:25] attractive to certain members of the opposite sex and, and same sex. [00:14:30] There's frequencies in the voice, in the middle part of the voice, in the high voice that make me [00:14:35] sound more emotional, make me sound more, uh, joyful, make me [00:14:40] sound happier.
People are attracted to happy [00:14:45] people. When you're speaking correctly, your voice sounds healthy and people [00:14:50] hear that. and feel your health and strength. So, [00:14:55] so how you sound is very much how people decide [00:15:00] you're attractive. And how you sound and you hear yourself, you feel [00:15:05] more powerful, you feel more attractive, you feel happier, more joyful, more grateful.[00:15:10]
So you're listening to yourself speak. You're making yourself happier or [00:15:15] depressed based on your own sounds and more or less attractive. Wow. If [00:15:20] I just sound like this I'm not really the star of my own life movie. I've [00:15:25] got a nasal voice. I'm not even, I don't sound attractive to myself. I don't want to kiss [00:15:30] myself on the mouth.
But if I sound like this, where there's melody, I sound [00:15:35] happy. I sound confident. Suddenly I hear it. I feel it. I'm [00:15:40] very attracted to myself by listening to an
attractive voice. So, uh, [00:15:45] a healthy human being is going to sound more attractive, right? Yes! [00:15:50] That, that means that your voice is a sign that you are [00:15:55] fertile and healthy, just like clear skin or having a [00:16:00] body shape that's within certain norms, no matter how much you yell about your non normal body [00:16:05] shape being healthy, it isn't a sign of health, right?
It's just how it works. Health
is [00:16:10] strength. Aha. The sounds of strength are in the voice, so the [00:16:15] sounds of health are in the voice. What do you say to people who say, well, this is my voice, [00:16:20] people should just deal with it? Those people are trapped [00:16:25] in their own reality, and I tell them that their voice is not [00:16:30] for them.
Your voice is a gift that you're [00:16:35] supposed to learn how to use and package, not just old newspaper, package [00:16:40] with a bow and you're supposed to give it away. And then you're [00:16:45] supposed to decide if it's a great voice if people liked the gift. It's for [00:16:50] them. If your voice was for you, your ears wouldn't be here and your mouth sends the [00:16:55] sound over there.
I'm gifting my voice to you so you're [00:17:00] more important, your opinion of my voice is infinitely more important than my [00:17:05] opinion.
Whoa. Did you like the gift? I think you just triggered a lot of people there, which means [00:17:10] I definitely like the gift because triggering people is my love language. So that was good.
But. Those words, [00:17:15] your voice is not for you, is so profound. Roger, that's [00:17:20] one of the coolest things I've ever heard on the show.
That's why you have an inner voice. Silence. [00:17:25] Unfortunately, people have crappy, miserable inner voices that [00:17:30] sound like crap and tell them negative things. And then they, unfortunately, open up their [00:17:35] mouth, and uh oh, their inner voice came out.
And it said it and [00:17:40] spoke to you. People want to speak with the inner voice. That's silent. Wow. The outer [00:17:45] voice is the gift. I love this.
There are a lot of [00:17:50] people, maybe even including me, when I got started on stages many, many, many years [00:17:55] ago, in the world of tech who hate the sound of their own voice. Like they don't even want to hear a [00:18:00] recording, like, why do we cringe at the sound of our own voice?
We don't know what we sound [00:18:05] like by listening to ourselves, because what we're listening to is [00:18:10] bone conduction inside our heads. When I speak, the [00:18:15] sound is first trapped in my head and it [00:18:20] vibrates my skull. And the vibration makes me think that I'm big and strong and powerful [00:18:25] and my testosterone levels must be much higher than yours.
But those are sounds that [00:18:30] I feel and hear inside. But when I [00:18:35] speak, you don't hear all of the bone conduction. The bone [00:18:40] vibration that I hear inside. So we don't know what we sound like unless [00:18:45] we record ourselves and we listen back. And that's where people [00:18:50] hate themselves and hate their voice. Because now they're listening back, but they're not [00:18:55] feeling all of the vibration that they did when they made the sound.
It doesn't sound right. Sound like me when [00:19:00] it's played back because when I'm speaking, I'm hearing the inner resonance versus just the outer [00:19:05] resonance. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And you're judging
your voice based on what it feels like [00:19:10] inside. And you don't really know what it sounds like until you listen back.
That's cool.[00:19:15]
If you were to [00:19:20] give advice to Bobby Kennedy, who has an unusual voice, and granted [00:19:25] he has an autoimmune condition of his vocal cords that strangely came on a couple days after a [00:19:30] vaccine from what I hear. Not that you have. I
thought he has some. some level of spasmodic [00:19:35] dysphonia.
It does. It just came on a couple days after an injection.
Okay. So we don't know. But [00:19:40] it apparently is an autoimmune thing that caused the spasms, but maybe it's not. I don't know. [00:19:45] Okay. But regardless, there's a condition behind it. And what [00:19:50] would a professional vocal coach say in a situation like that? Because he's not the only [00:19:55] one with spasmodic dysphonia.
Yeah.
I work with people that have [00:20:00] that issue. Oh, really? Yeah, for years. And people who stutter. Imagine [00:20:05] stuttering being a little 1 or 2 on that scale and spasmodic dysphonia being a 20. [00:20:10] I used to stutter yeah, when I was
a
kid. So what I've learned by working with people that [00:20:15] have SD and stuttering is that I change the air flow.[00:20:20]
Really? When you listen to him [00:20:25] speak, you absolutely hear the absence [00:20:30] of air. The chords are. trying to get the sound [00:20:35] out, but they don't have enough air. It's like me trying to play the guitar, but instead of brum, brum, brum, [00:20:40] brum, brum, or the banjo, your favorite, it's like me trying to play bluegrass on a banjo, bring, [00:20:45] bring, bring, but my hand's out here.
So I'm not touching the strings. So [00:20:50] what I do is I show them how to do solid airflow. [00:20:55] In the same way I mentioned before, by making sure that their stomach is coming in. [00:21:00] Did you know that stutterers, and even some people with spasmodic [00:21:05] dysphonia, when they sing, it comes out clear? Interesting. So I [00:21:10] change the airflow.
Roger: Mm hmm.
Dave: He has his stomach tight. [00:21:15] He's tense with anticipation of feeling like, The sound's [00:21:20] not going to come out that creates a perpetual loop of tension here. His stomach is [00:21:25] motionless. I would train him to bring his stomach in, get him [00:21:30] used to solid airflow and attaching the words and I have had, I'm going to say [00:21:35] miracle work with stutterers and other people that have issues like [00:21:40] he does by changing the airflow.
I run a group called Unlimited. [00:21:45] Life, which is a very high end, year long mastermind [00:21:50] with life extension medicine from a doctor human reforms coaching from me, [00:21:55] and, uh, life purpose coaching from the people who run the Dalai Lama Foundation, like the [00:22:00] highest in the world, uh, thing, ultra VIP sort of thing.
One of our members [00:22:05] has This condition I'm going to refer her to you. I was I didn't [00:22:10] think that you'd have a particular thing there But that's really cool So I think a few people listening to [00:22:15] this could really benefit from that and if you set her the way I used to When I was in middle [00:22:20] school, I know that mine came about from toxic mold and Asperger's and things like that, and, [00:22:25] uh, something called pandas now, but I used to do the OCD thing, and then I would [00:22:30] stutter a few times, and I was really self conscious of it, and as I fixed my brain, it got better, but I've also done [00:22:35] enormous breath work and yoga and all that, and now I'm pretty good at speaking, but there was [00:22:40] a time when I was not at all, so I know it can change, and just how much of it is [00:22:45] physical versus learning how to play the instrument, it sounds like, It's like if you're playing a guitar [00:22:50] and one finger's always stuck down and you don't know it, you're not gonna get the right results.
So if you can just learn to relax the [00:22:55] finger and move it back and forth, it's gonna work.
100%. When I was a little kid, I was watching one of the late [00:23:00] night shows, and this comedian came on and his name was Mel Tillis. And his whole shtick [00:23:05] was he was a stutterer. And he would tell jokes, and the audience would laugh with him, not make [00:23:10] fun of him, but laugh with him.
And then he would sing, and he was a country singing star. [00:23:15] Whoa. And I, and I registered that as a little kid, so I realized [00:23:20] later on that if I changed the way that That you breathe, because even the [00:23:25] most severe stutterers in the world can sing without stuttering. Wow. And [00:23:30] also, you can be an expert on breathing techniques, but it [00:23:35] changes when you go to make sound.
So you could have the most incredible breathing, but then [00:23:40] when you go to speak or sing, It changes it, and you start to [00:23:45] tighten your stomach, and you start to think of the choir teacher who shouted, Support! Support, little [00:23:50] boy! And you tighten your stomach. So, having great breath [00:23:55] work understanding does not mean it's easy.
It immediately applies [00:24:00] into when sound comes out because your body does different things when you go to make [00:24:05] sounds and creates other tensions.
Wow, I'm just loving this conversation and [00:24:10] I want to introduce you to Bobby and his people as well if, uh, if he's open to it, [00:24:15] which I imagine he would be. So that's cool.
I was just on stage this weekend at [00:24:20] Texans for Medical Freedom. They just had 10 bills passed around your right to choose your own [00:24:25] health care versus someone else choosing for you, which. Kind of as important to biohackers, so we can extend our [00:24:30] lives in the way we choose. And Del Bigtree [00:24:35] got on stage, who's a friend.
You know Del's work? I don't. He runs, uh, [00:24:40] iWire, or I think something like that. Anyway, big media person and his dad was a preacher. [00:24:45] So he gets on stage, and I come up, I kind of talk like this, and I, you know, people laughing, I'm [00:24:50] telling jokes, and whatever. And, uh, But he comes on stage, he's like, we are charged up.[00:24:55]
And I have no idea what the heck he does every time, but it's like delivering a sermon and, you know, the [00:25:00] people are jumping up and down and throwing money almost. But how do people do that [00:25:05] preacher thing where they're thundering in the room and they're doing that? What's going on in there?
[00:25:10] Well, there are preachers that are some of the greatest orators, [00:25:15] voices in history.
And the, and the idea is they're using their [00:25:20] voice. to save the souls of every member of their [00:25:25] congregation. So there's a lot at stake. And it's very dramatic.
Roger: [00:25:30] Yeah.
Dave: And there's all different styles of, you know, preaching. But, [00:25:35] but those voices are really honed. They are instruments. [00:25:40] When, when a great preacher speaks, it's, it's the same as the choir [00:25:45] singing in the church.
Their voice is full of melody and [00:25:50] full of sustain and range. They don't just stay in one place. They're all [00:25:55] over the, all over the keyboard. So this whole idea of [00:26:00] The greatest voices are the most musical. The most musical, great [00:26:05] voices, a lot of them, are preachers and pastors. I've had the [00:26:10] great opportunity of working with some incredible ones.
One, a friend of mine, a student right now, is [00:26:15] named Stephen Furtick. He's incredibly amazing, vocal, [00:26:20] emotional speaker. His church is called Elevation Worship.
Roger: Mm hmm.
Dave: And he's one [00:26:25] of these people where millions and millions of people listen to him. to, and watch the videos of his [00:26:30] sermons. He's a great example of someone who uses their voice [00:26:35] to move millions of people in [00:26:40] faith through the emotions they need to get closer to themselves and to [00:26:45] God.
Wow, okay, so voice can be a really powerful tool for good.
Yeah.
I still generally [00:26:50] sound like a college professor as far as I can tell. Uh, just cause I, I learned my public [00:26:55] speaking. I gave a couple talks in my early 20s and I was just terrified. I don't even know what I said, but [00:27:00] people seemed to like it.
So then I taught for five years at the University of California. I ran a program to teach [00:27:05] engineers how to build the internet. Like, I'll just teach for a while until I got really good at teaching. But I'm [00:27:10] imparting complex knowledge in a simple way. And You might have noticed after 1300 [00:27:15] episodes, I'm still doing that to the best of my ability.
And I've never [00:27:20] delivered a sermon lecture in my entire life. You shall learn [00:27:25] TCP IP protocols to improve network connectivity. Like you don't do that, [00:27:30] but, uh, maybe I'll do some more work on that. That'd be kind of fun to be more of like [00:27:35] an emotional speaker versus just, I really I'm peaceful and I really care about how well you do.[00:27:40]
You are an emotional speaker. Yeah. You are a speaker. [00:27:45] teacher, and you are, you are doing a sermon every single time you do a [00:27:50] podcast or a speech. The volume of your voice doesn't make you a [00:27:55] preacher or not. You're a teacher. An emotional speaker [00:28:00] who uses the sounds that you use to influence millions of people.[00:28:05]
That's the number one reason, that's the number one attribute of a great [00:28:10] speaker. Did you move people from emotion to emotion, not just one [00:28:15] emotion. You're great at moving people to wonder [00:28:20] and emotion. action and, and change. Oh, thank you. Those are all the [00:28:25] really things I care about. So if that's working, cool.
But there's all different styles. Yeah. [00:28:30] Cool. There, there's, there's, uh, there's all different types of music and the music [00:28:35] that you make as a speaker is, is reaching millions of people and moving millions of [00:28:40] people. So you don't
have
that much
to learn. Well, thank you. That's a, a really meaningful [00:28:45] compliment coming from you.
Truthful. Cool. And. And if you're listening to the show, which you obviously are right [00:28:50] now, I'll be starting a religion. I, uh, I'm [00:28:55] interested in continuous improvement, and I don't really care how good I am at something. It doesn't matter. Like if I [00:29:00] can find a way to make it easier, or better, or more efficient, [00:29:05] then I want to do that.
And it doesn't matter if I'm 9. 9999 [00:29:10] percent If I can apply a little bit of effort and go up another, you know, Point oh oh oh one percent. I'm [00:29:15] happy to do that, right? And this is I think where mastery comes from but I only want to master things I care [00:29:20] about everything else I don't care anything about it.
What made you get [00:29:25] into voices so deeply that you became a master?
I realized [00:29:30] early on that Whenever I sang, it just made me happy. [00:29:35] I didn't understand the science of it. There's plenty of science that proves that now, but back then I just [00:29:40] wasn't all that happy as a kid. So I would sing and I would instantly [00:29:45] change my mood.
And now we know dopamine gets released and all, all other amazing [00:29:50] things happen, but I sang because it made me happy. And then as I grew [00:29:55] up, Singing was everything to me, and when I realized that I could [00:30:00] teach and show other people to use their voice to make them [00:30:05] happy, as Pollyanna as that sounds, that's a great, that's a great [00:30:10] skill set, and, and then, Literally, I started, I started as a [00:30:15] singing coach.
So for 17 years, I only taught singers and then speakers [00:30:20] started coming to me. Tony Robbins and, and a famous actor started coming [00:30:25] to me and, and then I turned them all away. Because I was [00:30:30] really thinking my goal was to teach great singers [00:30:35] how to sing better. And to show the world that anyone could sing.
And I've [00:30:40] proved it, taken people that couldn't sing at all, and they've become superstar singers. Wow. So [00:30:45] that transition between singing coach to speaking coach changed my life. [00:30:50] Because as a singing coach, for all those years, I thought my job was just to help people sell more [00:30:55] records and sell more t shirts at their concerts.
But I realized that [00:31:00] by working on the speaking voice, I wasn't that interested in creating great voices anymore. I [00:31:05] wanted to use voice to help make great people. And then I decided I [00:31:10] could save the world one voice at a time. And then that became my [00:31:15] mission. You're not the voice you were born with. The voice you're using is either giving you the life [00:31:20] you want or it's taking that life away.
So I'm just [00:31:25] still passionate minute by minute over taking my skill [00:31:30] set, saving the world by helping people change their voices that change their lives.
Okay,
so [00:31:35] you were
just pursuing happiness, so you became obsessed with it,
right?
Roger: Yeah.
Dave: That's awesome.
And that, I [00:31:40] found a gig that I could sing all day and make myself happy and everybody else happy.
Well, that's, that's winning in [00:31:45] life, okay. When I sit down with people for a meal, so we put, [00:31:50] oh my god, what's Dave going to think about what I put on my plate? And the reality is, I'm not going to think about what you put [00:31:55] on your plate, it's your plate. And you get to eat to feel however you want to feel.
And if you ask me, I'll tell you what, you know, what you can [00:32:00] improve or not improve, whatever. Um. But I didn't really think about it, but what [00:32:05] goes on in your head when you first hear someone's voice? [00:32:10] First of all
People are afraid to speak to me. So, you know, [00:32:15] they're afraid to eat in front of me afraid to speak in front of you.
That's so good.
Okay
The beginning of every dinner that [00:32:20] I go to with a group of people that don't know me They say someone says i'm afraid to [00:32:25] speak because you'll judge me Do you judge them right there and be like that was bad? I judge them [00:32:30] more i'm thinking that But the truth is is that I could turn it off Yeah, like you turn it [00:32:35] off.
Yeah, I don't I don't want to be the teacher at the table. I just want [00:32:40] to be You Sometimes I want to be the guest at the table. Sometimes I just want to be a participant. Sometimes I [00:32:45] just want to be the listener at the table. More so, I want to be the listener. I talk for [00:32:50] a living. I love to listen. So I listen to people's voices and I can listen for, [00:32:55] for other than technique.
Right. But the truth is, is that when [00:33:00] they ask me, I can switch it on pretty fast and tell them, [00:33:05] but, but, you know, truthfully, this, uh, this reminds me of the story [00:33:10] that I was newly married years and years ago. I'm still married to the same woman, and she had [00:33:15] never seen me lecture. So I was giving this big lecture in New York, and there [00:33:20] was about 500 people in the audience, and I would bring people up, I'd listen to them, [00:33:25] and then I'd do transformations.
I'd tell them what they sounded like, and then I'd transform them. And [00:33:30] at the end of the class, I'm thinking, Wow, I can't wait to ask my new [00:33:35] bride what she thought because I thought I was [00:33:40] Superhero. Omnipotent. I felt like this was going to be the luckiest romantic [00:33:45] night of my life. And she just saw me in my best life.
And she said to [00:33:50] me, I said, what did you think? And she said, you're the meanest person I've ever [00:33:55] met in my life. Why would anyone study with you? I said, [00:34:00] what do you mean? She goes, you made fun of every single person that came up. I said, [00:34:05] I didn't make fun. I showed them what they sounded like. And then I fixed it.
[00:34:10] Wow. So sometimes you have to be honest, and, but that was a lesson for me, and I try to do it in a [00:34:15] loving way, but, but, uh. Humor can be loving. Humor? I [00:34:20] teach with a lot of humor.
The trick is to be kind, but not nice. Because nice is [00:34:25] not kind at all. Oh, your voice is just fine, and they sound like, you know, cats dying.
You [00:34:30] should probably tell them. And it's not kind. To let the spinach [00:34:35] stay in someone's teeth either.
Yeah, and if people are sitting at a table with you and don't ask you something [00:34:40] about health and nutrition, they're, they're dumb.
Well, I mean, they can ask, I'm happy to do it, [00:34:45] but I'm not going to lecture and I'm not going to judge.
But it comes down to something [00:34:50] called Toxic Empathy. I read about that in my last book where people go, Oh, being empathetic is so [00:34:55] good. No, if you can't turn off your empathy, you just feel everyone's garbage all the time. And imagine how [00:35:00] hellish your life would be if every time you heard anything, you had to judge it.
And imagine how [00:35:05] hellish my life would be if every time someone's doing something that's healthy or not healthy, I had to go through this [00:35:10] internal process of judging it. Gross. So, that just comes with, I [00:35:15] think, learning how to control what's going on in your head. So, you're there. That's good. So, guys, you don't have to be [00:35:20] afraid of talking to Roger Love.
He's only going to judge you if you ask him to and he's going to make fun of you and then his [00:35:25] wife won't like him anymore.
And you know, because you're a creative, that you can't [00:35:30] create and judge at the same time. No. So, if I'm a songwriter and I'm writing a song, I can't judge it while I'm writing [00:35:35] or I'll never finish it.
Yeah. So. So you and I both know that that balance [00:35:40] between being non judgmental is what keeps us creative.
Roger: Yeah. [00:35:45]
Dave: It's kind of like playing ping pong. Anyone who's played very much, if you think [00:35:50] about the shot, you will not make the shot. You have to not judge it and just let it [00:35:55] happen. And then you say, I can't believe I just did that.
And it's that gap of [00:36:00] judging that takes you out of the creative flow, right?
I work for the last couple of years [00:36:05] with Tom Brady.
Yeah.
And I've learned so much [00:36:10] about life by learning how he throws the [00:36:15] ball. Oh, interesting. And what goes on in his mind. What did you learn? I just, it's, [00:36:20] it's not about technique.
It's it's just a allowing. What's [00:36:25] supposed to happen, happened because you practiced to the nth degree [00:36:30] and you learned everything you need. But then when you're actually throwing the ball, it's you're, you're in the most [00:36:35] relaxed place you could actually be.
It's interesting. I've had a Nick Foles and Bo Eason [00:36:40] on, but I haven't had Tom Brady on, I'll have to reach out to his team.
Bo's a
friend of mine and
student. Oh, no [00:36:45] kidding. Of course. Yeah. Bo's a good friend. He's a great guy. And, uh. Yeah. It's really [00:36:50] funny when you look at these, these super pro athletes [00:36:55] and the Bryan brothers have been on and the weird [00:37:00] stuff that happens between when we think and when we act, there's some kind of a [00:37:05] native thing they do that just turns that off.
It feels to me like great [00:37:10] orators are doing the same thing. They're not sitting there going, Okay, my stomach is out where it [00:37:15] needs to be and I'm slowly bringing it in. They're just in flow. How [00:37:20] do people learn how to be in flow when they speak and still have all the right [00:37:25] intonations and all that?
What we learn from an athlete or a great speaker is that they put the work [00:37:30] in ahead of time.
Okay. So nobody works harder than [00:37:35] a professional athlete at that level to learn all the techniques, all of the skill [00:37:40] sets to hone the body, to do everything the body could possibly do that is [00:37:45] necessary to perform their expertise at that sport. And great speakers need to do [00:37:50] the same thing. That's what, that's why I'm a technique teacher.
I train the instrument [00:37:55] so that the instrument will be In perfect condition so that you [00:38:00] don't have to worry about what's happening in your voice. [00:38:05] You just have to feel and teach from a place of emotion [00:38:10] and the things that you know. And you know that the brain [00:38:15] can be consciously competent on multiple things at the same time.[00:38:20]
And people are trying so hard to be unconsciously competent at everything. And that's where [00:38:25] I think that they're missing it. You should be. Consciously competent, [00:38:30] and then the body and the brain can do all of those things and [00:38:35] think about all those things. That's the job of the brain, and it can still come out [00:38:40] effortlessly without question.
Once you develop conscious competence, it's available [00:38:45] unconsciously if you just relax.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
That's my
experience. That's what a great speaker [00:38:50] does. That's what a great athlete does. You learn to train your voice, and you only know the things [00:38:55] you know. So you can only say the things you know, so it's being [00:39:00] consciously competent to the level that it seems unconscious.
I've seen research [00:39:05] showing that when people have trained their voice, it changes their posture, it changes [00:39:10] even their physical vitality and probably their longevity, to be honest. Does it also improve [00:39:15] athletic performance?
Yes, again, you, you are breathing [00:39:20] more healthy, so you're, some would say you're oxygenating your blood more.[00:39:25]
In order to get air into the lungs to sound great, [00:39:30] you can't round your shoulders over. because it blocks the entrance of the air into the lungs. [00:39:35] So posture is super important. Your chest has to be I feel judged. [00:39:40] But you have pretty good posture. Your chest has to be up, [00:39:45] shoulders back and down so that the rib cage is out of the way so that air can go [00:39:50] right past into the lungs.
So all of these things, posture, [00:39:55] breathing, how much air you take in, how much air you exhale, all of those things are [00:40:00] making you healthier.
When everyone got all this COVID [00:40:05] vaccine injuries or, or straight up COVID injuries of their lungs, did it change the [00:40:10] way you hear people talking?
Yeah. Yeah. People, when they got COVID [00:40:15] and the aftermath of COVID, they felt that they couldn't take in as much [00:40:20] air.
So as I said, as a, as a species. We are already not good at [00:40:25] speaking with the right amount of air like we sing. So, humans were already not [00:40:30] sending enough air out. But then when they realized they couldn't take that much air in, [00:40:35] it became more. That, that millions of people started speaking softer and [00:40:40] weaker and airier like this because they didn't feel they could get enough [00:40:45] air in to then send enough air out.
But also, I wanted to [00:40:50] say to the last question, The sounds you make really do make you [00:40:55] healthy, or they don't, and, and this is so [00:41:00] evident, and science is proving this more and more. We are listening to sounds that are [00:41:05] changing the way our brain functions. It's time that we started [00:41:10] making the sounds. The healing sounds that [00:41:15] change the way our brains work, change the tension level, [00:41:20] change the optimization, change the stress level, change the [00:41:25] get up and go, activate, step it up level.
So, [00:41:30] we have to make sounds, we're our own sound healing machines, [00:41:35] and people don't realize that, even though science is telling us that now.
The definition of [00:41:40] biohacking, when I first wrote it, was the art and science of changing the environment around you and [00:41:45] inside of you so you have control of your biology or of your state.
And the [00:41:50] vibrational or sound environment around you and inside of you is a direct way of [00:41:55] communicating with your mitochondria and with your subcellular components. They are vibration sensitive [00:42:00] because they're ancient bacteria that are all vibration sensitive. So there's all these [00:42:05] unseen levels of communication, whether it's another voice or your voice.
We've [00:42:10] had Stephen Porges on the show, who's the father of polyvagal theory, [00:42:15] who learned certain female vocal ranges radically [00:42:20] change the state of people's nervous systems for deep healing. Strangely, not for male [00:42:25] voices. We don't really know why. So there's all this almost invisible to our conscious mind [00:42:30] thing that's happening.
And you've made this incredible study of going deep on how do you make it so [00:42:35] that you're communicating with others, but maybe also with yourself.
You're listening to the [00:42:40] sounds you make. It's all about vibration and frequency and [00:42:45] hertz. Very soon, you say to me, I have a headache, [00:42:50] Roger, and I say, go, ah, eee, [00:42:55] and do that three times, and your headache goes away.
Wow. That we will be able to control [00:43:00] function
with sound. I love that. So healing sounds. [00:43:05] Now. If some government person comes to me and says, I want you to do this harmful [00:43:10] thing against your will, what sound do I make to make them get really nauseous and maybe fill their [00:43:15] pants? Can you teach me that sound?
That's a longer story.
Okay. By the way, it's 8 hertz makes them fill [00:43:20] their pants.
But, but there are certain hertz that do [00:43:25] certain things to the brain. And put you in different states than you want to be in. And so [00:43:30] why not make those sounds?
Mm hmm. Why not? Okay, this [00:43:35] is a question I've wanted to ask for a long time.
I [00:43:40] always, for some reason, find the most esoteric, weird studies that people [00:43:45] aren't talking about. And I'm just barely old enough by calendar [00:43:50] age, if people still use that. It's kind of like the 8 track way of measuring your age. But. [00:43:55] When we cut over from vinyl or tape, which are analog signals, [00:44:00] into digital signal processing.
So if you're someone who's only listened to CDs [00:44:05] or streaming music, you've only heard digital music. Unless you've gone to a live show, and even [00:44:10] most live shows now have digital stuff in line before you hear it. [00:44:15] And I read a paper by someone, so I must have been in my, early [00:44:20] 30s, early 20s or something.
And it was a paper by someone who was 70. I wish I could remember his [00:44:25] name. It was a while ago. And he said, look, if you're listening to digital music, it's like [00:44:30] a thousand tiny ice cubes hitting your ears, but if you listen to an [00:44:35] analog signal, it's like a wave of water hitting you, because analog music, at [00:44:40] its core, it's not a bunch of little digital signals, like stair steps, it's truly a [00:44:45] smooth curve, and this is a voice, the way that you and I are hearing each other now, it's [00:44:50] That's a real sound, but what everyone's hearing on the show has been compressed and re expanded [00:44:55] and sent across the internet, and it is all digital.
How bad is digital signal [00:45:00] processing for communication?
First of all, I'm so, happy that you know [00:45:05] all that. I mean, there are, there are still record producers. Mm hmm. who [00:45:10] must have some analog processing on it. Yeah. So they might [00:45:15] record digitally, but then eventually it goes into analog machines, onto [00:45:20] tape, and to try to, to try to simulate some of that analog.
There are, there are [00:45:25] musicians who won't listen to, They won't listen to mp3s because [00:45:30] it's, it's, if, if, if music is your religion and you listen to an mp3, you're not [00:45:35] talking to God.
It, I feel the difference with analog and digital in my nervous [00:45:40] system. Yeah.
When I have people record speaking or singing, when I have my singers record in the studio and when I [00:45:45] have my speakers record, I tell them that the only thing that's true sound is the [00:45:50] sound that comes out from here.
And gets to hear right before it goes into the [00:45:55] mic. And that's why I don't let them wear two headphones. One headphone, one [00:46:00] headphone off. Wow. I focus my speakers and singers on creating only the [00:46:05] sound in the room, no matter where it's going. And that that's the [00:46:10] only real sound. sound. That it's not true once it goes [00:46:15] into the mic and comes back through the wires into my headphones.
It's got [00:46:20] processing that has changed the sound. So real sound is what happens between here and the mic. [00:46:25] Real sound is what happens between my mouth and your ears. And every time [00:46:30] it gets processed, it is downgraded.
Wow, so we [00:46:35] could be actually Weakening humanity with our digital signal processing
[00:46:40] because we put pretty things on top of the week.
We add reverb. [00:46:45] We have machines. We don't people don't learn have to learn how to be loud when they want to be loud [00:46:50] and soft when they're soft. We have machines that Equalize that, the [00:46:55] signal, so it's all, so it doesn't get too soft or too loud. We have, we have things that [00:47:00] add bass to the voice and treble so that EQ it differently.
So all of that [00:47:05] electronic stuff was created to make up for the fact that we're not just [00:47:10] listening to somebody speak or sing in a room.
Roger, you're you're making me sad. [00:47:15] So padded shoes have ruined human feet and legs.
Yeah. Because of the,
because of the [00:47:20] padding
have made the, the have made the bottom of your souls, uh, less, uh, less [00:47:25] resilient.
Right. And now you're saying that all of the things that we're doing on the show right now, so it sounds even [00:47:30] better than it does in person, we think are the equivalent of padded shoes that take [00:47:35] away our neck. Or natural native ability?
Yes and no. I'm saying that when you have the [00:47:40] opportunity to actually have conversations with people, mouth to ears, ears to [00:47:45] mouth, that that's real and that's real connection.
Right. And that [00:47:50] humankind needs to hold on to that before it [00:47:55] just gives up the whole idea that human voice is not the voice of our future, but that [00:48:00] AI voice is the voice of our future.
And AI voice will always be digital, [00:48:05] right? That's intriguing. So there you go.[00:48:10]
I think in this world where [00:48:15] AI takes over a lot of job functions, I'm actively encouraging my kids not to [00:48:20] go to college because 58 percent of people who graduate can't get a job anyway. It's a terrible [00:48:25] thing. Buy a business with the money you would have used to go to college. And if you fail, you can still go [00:48:30] bankrupt, but that student loan is never going to go away.
So you might as well just face facts. [00:48:35] But if you are going to study something or choose a vocation, one that requires face to face [00:48:40] interaction cannot be replaced. As long as the interaction is the goal, right? You can have a robot cut [00:48:45] your hair, right? But if it's something that requires speaking or human [00:48:50] touch, we can't replace those.
Yeah, remember that a hundred percent, that's why [00:48:55] colleges are having so many problems. Yeah. Trying to convince students that they should go and pay all that money. Yeah. [00:49:00] So, the idea is that communication is human based [00:49:05] because we attach the communication to emotions. AI will [00:49:10] never be able to attach communication to emotions second [00:49:15] by second.
They won't be able to process the emotions and it won't be able to create the emotions. So [00:49:20] we have to hold on to the things that makes us human. Years ago when I saw bad [00:49:25] human communicators teaching machines how to sound, I realized [00:49:30] we were in trouble because humans are not great communicators. They've stopped.
[00:49:35] They've lost a lot of their ability to communicate emotionally. And then they're unemotionally teaching [00:49:40] machines how to speak unemotionally. And where are we left? If you want to be [00:49:45] AI proof, Become the greatest communicator that you can be, the [00:49:50] most authentic, the most connected to your own emotions and the emotions of other [00:49:55] people, and AI will never be able to replace any of that.
So, [00:50:00] finding your voice makes you AI proof. Exactly. How do you find your voice? You find [00:50:05] your voice by training it as an instrument. You find your voice by finding the [00:50:10] melodies and the volume changes. You find your voice by bouncing it off of other people and trying to [00:50:15] move them emotionally with your voice.
You find your voice by [00:50:20] listening to other people's sounds and deciding what moves you [00:50:25] emotionally and separating the emotional sounds from the non emotional ones. [00:50:30] We learn by becoming musical again, emotional again, putting all of that [00:50:35] in our voice, that's what makes us AI proof.
That is so profound. I'm going to play [00:50:40] this episode for my kids.
I think it's got something in there for them. Thank you. Thank you. [00:50:45] How do you move between sounding powerful and sounding forced? [00:50:50] Volume gets a bad
rep. Okay. So sounding forced is [00:50:55] so attached to volume, so people don't want to sound [00:51:00] like They're mansplaining, or womansplaining, or powering their way through [00:51:05] conversations.
And people are worried that if they spoke loudly, that they would [00:51:10] sound angry. And God knows there's enough anger sounds in the world. So anger's gotten a bad [00:51:15] rep. So volume's gotten a bad rep, okay? Now, [00:51:20] what's the component of volume? What's the component of anger? Not [00:51:25] just loud volume. The sound component of anger is loud [00:51:30] volume, fast paced, and monotone.
So of course [00:51:35] I'm louder when I'm angry. But I also don't have time for melody because I've been holding all this stuff inside of me and I gotta get it out [00:51:40] right now while we're still doing the interview. And so I get faster, [00:51:45] And there's, I don't have time for melody, and I have to speak really fast. So unless you are [00:51:50] speaking loud, super fast, and no [00:51:55] melody, you don't sound angry.
So I convince people to [00:52:00] speak louder. That's how you sound powerful. That's how you're not bullying anyone. [00:52:05] But you have to mix in a lot of melody. Wow. And you have to not [00:52:10] go fast, or loud sounds angry. But if loud has melody, [00:52:15] And, and controlled pace, you just sound strong and powerful and beautiful. [00:52:20]
You just taught me something.
So I'm a large guy, I'm 6'4 [00:52:25] and I used to be really fat too. So I'm usually the biggest guy in the room. [00:52:30] And with men, we're primates, and I'm always a threat, right? [00:52:35] Because most people know I could probably kill them. That's just the way it is. It's not that, hopefully you're [00:52:40] not thinking about that all the time, but if it just comes down to physics, there's a thing.[00:52:45]
I also have loud voice and I also think really fast and I [00:52:50] communicate really fast. And if you're listening, go, Dave, you communicate fast. I actually learned consciously [00:52:55] how to slow down. And in fact, I'm running at half speed most of the time because [00:53:00] I just realized if I go at my native speed, I just lose people or [00:53:05] they feel like I'm somehow trying to be superior, which I'm absolutely not.
I'm just excited because this is [00:53:10] so cool and so interesting and I just want to talk about it. And you think about this and you think about that, right? But I [00:53:15] haven't really considered. that I could add melody in. And when it comes to corporate [00:53:20] leadership stuff, there's plenty of times where someone on the team, usually someone more junior, they think I'm [00:53:25] really mad.
I'm so not mad. Like, I, it takes a lot to make me mad. I was [00:53:30] just, okay, I had 24 meetings scheduled today, and I'm getting on a plane tonight, and we have exactly [00:53:35] 30 seconds, so I want you to do this and this and this. Yeah. Knowing or whatsoever, but maybe I can play with [00:53:40] melodies so people don't tweak all the time.
That's Yeah,
you understand melody, but sometimes you get into the [00:53:45] same place where you have a bunch of words that just rattle out. Your brain works fast. So this [00:53:50] idea of, you'd never Enjoy a concert from an artist if [00:53:55] they only did ballads or only did up tempo songs. Sometimes you [00:54:00] want to jump up and down and then stand up at a concert.
Sometimes you want to sit down a little bit and [00:54:05] hold hands of the person you're sitting to next. So it's just adding more music [00:54:10] to move people to different
emotions. So interesting. Another thing I [00:54:15] wanted to ask you about, because yes, you're a vocal coach, but you also know a lot about [00:54:20] auditory processing.
What Uh, which is just an incredibly interesting field to me. When [00:54:25] I listen to audible books, I put them at about [00:54:30] 1. 6 to 2 speed. Mm hmm. Even if they're pretty complex, I taught my brain [00:54:35] how to do that on purpose, because then I can absorb twice as much info. But I did let my kids do [00:54:40] that. Because when they were young, if they listen to books at 2x speed, [00:54:45] they're going to start talking at 2x speed, and it's going to be probably neurologically [00:54:50] destructive.
How bad is it to listen to audiobooks or podcasts [00:54:55] at double the speed?
Okay, it's only bad on one level. Okay. I [00:55:00] don't. I don't let anything that I record How do you [00:55:05] stop it? I control the player. Anything I put out, I control the player. They can choose. [00:55:10] But I mean, this is going to get played at 2x speed by some people.
On the things I put out, I [00:55:15] try to control it with the player, and I try to keep it at 100 percent speed. The [00:55:20] issue is, is that when I listen, and when anyone listens to something sped up, [00:55:25] they have a good reason. You only have so many hours in the day, you have 24 meetings, you want to get the [00:55:30] content, and your brain works fast.
But there is no way. to for me [00:55:35] to listen or anyone to listen to sped up conversation and feel [00:55:40] emotionally as connected to it. Because the voice itself [00:55:45] doesn't sound as authentic sped up. The pitch changes [00:55:50] and the speed changes and it makes me less connected to the [00:55:55] person that is speaking. Wow. So I want.
I of course have limited time [00:56:00] just like you. I might have had 12 meetings instead of 24 like you have, but there's only so many hours in the day. [00:56:05] Right. And it, and I want to learn the content, but I feel like I resist the [00:56:10] content if the person is reading it, if I've altered their voice in a way that makes them sound [00:56:15] less like me.
Less than honest and less than real. So it bugs [00:56:20] me to listen to it sped up. Everyone sounds like Mickey Mouse. And it's fine [00:56:25] if I want to watch and listen to Mickey Mouse. But if that person is speaking, I want [00:56:30] to try to hear that person in the wild, in nature, in [00:56:35] authenticity. So it's a tool for expedience, but it's not a tool for [00:56:40] emotional connection to hearing the words and the sounds.
Okay.
Yeah. [00:56:45]
Then I'm going to record this part now and we'll play it now and at the beginning of the [00:56:50] show. I want you to listen to this episode without speeding it up, and when you get about halfway [00:56:55] through, you're going to hear exactly why, because you will learn things [00:57:00] from Roger if you listen to this just at normal speed, even if that feels painful for you, [00:57:05] just trust me, do that, and you'll thank me at the end.
There, [00:57:10] so now we'll ask people to do that. I think you have a good point there about people being [00:57:15] able to connect with the emotion of the reader. What made it work for me [00:57:20] was, in the old, old days, early on, you'd play a tape at 2x, people started saying, [00:57:25] like, I want a bunch of bucks, and all that. What they do now, with, uh, modern players, is they have all this [00:57:30] digital crap, which we already
Doesn't raise the pitch as much.
Yeah, it drops the pitch. So at least that's better, [00:57:35] and I also felt resistance, but I just trained the resistance out of me, because I want to absorb info, versus I [00:57:40] want to connect. But how 2x speed?
That would be dumb, right? [00:57:45] Dumb. Yeah. And, and again, you've come to the medium to say, I [00:57:50] just want the content.
Right. You don't really care about the person that's reading it. It might be the author, it might just be [00:57:55] some voiceover artist, and you don't really care about that person. Right. So you're only getting it for content. [00:58:00] But then, Isn't it possible that if you were emotionally receiving it, that you [00:58:05] might process that content faster than the way you think [00:58:10] you speak and the way you process?
Because remember, the brain processes spoken conversation [00:58:15] first for emotion and then for logic. So you actually are trying to trick [00:58:20] your brain when you just think, I'm only getting this for the logic side.
I'm
only listening to [00:58:25] content.
I might be removing some of the emotion by speeding it up. You're
100 percent removing the emotion, and [00:58:30] your brain is processing it, but it doesn't mean that you haven't rewired your [00:58:35] brain enough to process first for logic and then emotion.
It's just bypassing some of it. [00:58:40] You can't.
One of the things that our brains do that's entirely invisible to [00:58:45] us is that every memory you have, every memory of a word, of a number, [00:58:50] of an experience is accessed by emotion. So the way we look [00:58:55] things up in our internal database is all about emotion. So if you learn something with emotion, [00:59:00] It's in there.
And if you learn something with just logic, it probably won't last as long. And [00:59:05] that's real.
Why do you think people learned ABCs? By attaching it to a song. [00:59:10]
Mmm. Why do you
think that stayed with everyone?
That's why drunk people always sing [00:59:15] during the sobriety test, right?
Do you know if you ask someone to say the alphabet, [00:59:20] they chunk and not sing it.
They say A B C D E F G [00:59:25] H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V [00:59:30] W X Y Z. It's rhythmic. Because that was the rhythm of the song that they learned [00:59:35] it. Wow. That's so cool. You can't separate the emotion from music, and [00:59:40] if humans continue to keep separating emotion from [00:59:45] sound, We won't be any better than AI.
Ooh, that's a big [00:59:50] statement.
Why do people get chills when they hear a beautiful voice, but not AI?
People get chills [00:59:55] because of the frequencies and the hertz, and that your body [01:00:00] reacts to certain sounds. There are singers that can break glass, [01:00:05] because sound Sound waves can shatter [01:00:10] substances at certain hertz and frequencies and volumes.
[01:00:15] So, I, the first time I went and heard Pavarotti sing, [01:00:20] I couldn't stop the goose bumps on my arms when he [01:00:25] would hit the high notes. It's, it's a, speaking and singing is a [01:00:30] physical connection. When I speak or sing to you, air travels out [01:00:35] of my mouth and it vibrates your body, if you're doing it [01:00:40] properly. So then once that sound vibrates your body, it's a [01:00:45] physical connection.
People are speaking incorrectly, and they're not sending [01:00:50] enough air or sound that it's vibrating anyone's body. But when you're vibrating someone's [01:00:55] body, or you're in the audience, and that singer is vibrating your body, it's a [01:01:00] physical reaction. It's not oral.
I'm guessing you haven't [01:01:05] had a chance to listen to or read Heavily Meditated, my newest [01:01:10] book.
Not yet. Okay. It's one that you at least want to skim at [01:01:15] 2x speed. Kidding.
Because I talk about auditory processing in the book. And it's so [01:01:20] relevant to what you just said. And when I make a sound with my voice, [01:01:25] and then you hear it, you perceive that my lips moved, the sound took a second to get [01:01:30] there, some amount of time, and you heard it. But if we're measuring your auditory processing [01:01:35] systems in the brain with electrodes, your body holds onto the signal [01:01:40] for about a third of a second, 350 milliseconds.
It's called evoked potential [01:01:45] in neuroscience. And that is where I believe the chill comes from. This is the body, [01:01:50] not the mind, the body pre processing reality to tell you what emotion to [01:01:55] feel about it.
I love that. And by the way, This is also how the body [01:02:00] works. When you make sound and it vibrates my body, I'm not 100 [01:02:05] percent sure that I didn't make that sound, because I hear it and feel it.
[01:02:10] So once sound is in the room, It's a collective, it's like sympathetic [01:02:15] vibrations.
Incredible.
So actually your sound, once it vibrates [01:02:20] my body, part of my brain thinks, did I make that sound? Because I hear it and I feel it, [01:02:25] whether you say it or I say it. We're shared in this [01:02:30] Vibration more than you think
that is so cool It's one of the the reasons [01:02:35] that if you ever have a chance to do something like a kirtan Where you go to a yoga class [01:02:40] where they have singing like group singing afterwards or even just that group home at the end Yeah, it [01:02:45] does something to your nervous system.
I can't exactly say what but it's it's a sense of connectedness and [01:02:50] peace That's really cool.
Yes. There are studies that talk about that If you go and [01:02:55] sing at a choir that for 24 hours or so many, I mean, [01:03:00] hours and days, you're still high from singing with other people.
Roger: [01:03:05] Mmm.
Dave: So why shouldn't speaking be that way?
Why, why aren't we in a [01:03:10] duo group every time that we're speaking and we're making music that we feel and other people feel? [01:03:15]
But no reason. One of the things that I use when I want to get a room to quiet [01:03:20] down, I used at the last biohacking conference. We had 4, 500 people at this event in Austin by [01:03:25] the way guys, biohackingconference.
com. But I told people, if your phone goes [01:03:30] off during this part of it, you have to stand up and sing I'm a little teacup. [01:03:35] Right.
Roger: Good choice. [01:03:40]
Dave: And, and, and. I'll tell you what happened, because it's funny, and the [01:03:45] real question though is going to be why is it so nerve [01:03:50] wracking, why do people feel so vulnerable when they have to sing versus have to speak, but we'll get to that.[01:03:55]
Here's what happened. I'm up on stage talking, and I have a [01:04:00] continuous glucose monitor on. One of the ones from Abbott, that you can't turn off the frickin [01:04:05] alerts on it. And it said my blood sugar dropped, it didn't, it was a signal error. So I get the emergency [01:04:10] alert, you can have a Guys, I don't have diabetes, I just want to know what my blood sugar was.
I mean, different issue for [01:04:15] biohackers. So my phone goes off, and I'm like, that wasn't a ring. The audience wasn't having that. [01:04:20] So I had to sing I'm a Little Teacup. And then Wired Magazine wrote about it. And said Dave sang I'm a Little [01:04:25] Teacup. So thanks Wired. Anyway. So, that didn't bother [01:04:30] me too much, because I've learned to just not, like, I do what I do, and if people don't [01:04:35] like it, then they don't like it, and that seems like it must be their problem.
But, That could have [01:04:40] been a traumatizing experience, we'll put it that way. By the way, I did rap. I'm a little teacup because my singing voice still needs work. [01:04:45] But why do people feel so vulnerable when they sing versus when they speak on [01:04:50] stage?
First of all, people feel vulnerable when they speak on stage as well.
I [01:04:55] mean, the number one fear in America is speaking in public. I don't believe that. If it asked, [01:05:00] Speaking or singing everyone was that singing was even worse than speaking But the survey right now [01:05:05] says that number one fear is still speaking in public So why are they more [01:05:10] think of singing as speaking on?
on steroids [01:05:15] Amplified you're not your volume is louder. There's more notes. [01:05:20] You're you're held to Accountability of whether or not you hit the pitches where speaking [01:05:25] you can just not hit any pitches and make up bad melodies Is There's, it's, it's [01:05:30] just speaking times a million on steroids and it seems [01:05:35] more vulnerable.
It does. And also people, a great percentage of the people [01:05:40] believe that they are tone deaf. So when you say, would you sing for [01:05:45] me, most people who are not good singers immediately go to that emotional place where [01:05:50] they're like, I'm tone deaf and if I go to sing, it's going to. sounds so bad you're [01:05:55] going to hate me and I'm going to hate me.
You actually taught me that I [01:06:00] wasn't tone deaf.
Yeah. I just thought it was. It's a pretty simple test. Should we teach your listeners? Yeah, let's do it. [01:06:05] Okay. Because I know there are millions and millions and millions of people who think that they're tone deaf [01:06:10] just because they can't get in the car and sing all the notes that Elvis [01:06:15] can sing on the radio or anyone else they're listening to.
Here's the test for tone [01:06:20] deafness for anyone that is listening. I'm going to sing a little bit of Happy Birthday, [01:06:25] okay? And you're going to tell me, I'm not even going to do the whole thing, you're going to tell me, is this [01:06:30] the happy birthday that you learned? Happy [01:06:35] birthday to you. Happy birthday to you.[01:06:40]
Happy, happy, happy, happy birthday. Yes or no, the right melody. I'm pretty sure you got that one [01:06:45] wrong. Okay. It was, it was an interesting one though. I'll give you that. That's more interesting than I normally, so that [01:06:50] may, that may catch on. Anyways, but Or not. If you were tone deaf, that [01:06:55] would have sounded like this.[01:07:00]
You wouldn't have heard any of the pitches. You wouldn't have heard me go higher and lower. [01:07:05] So, less than 2 percent of the entire world population is [01:07:10] tone deaf, and it happens from some damage to the middle ear when you're [01:07:15] young or early in life. Nobody is really tone deaf. [01:07:20] They're tone lazy. They're tone shy.
They haven't learned to play their instrument. They're tone [01:07:25] untrained. They're tone untrained. Their grandmother gave them a Steinway piano, and And when she died, [01:07:30] I'm sorry that happened, but they got a Steinway piano and they have to make two choices. Should I move out [01:07:35] all of the furniture in my living room and put it there, or not?
So then [01:07:40] they decide. They move out all the furniture and put it in the living room. Then they have another decision. Are they going to [01:07:45] learn to play it, or are they going to use it as a frame holder? [01:07:50] The voice could be a Steinway piano, and you decide whether you're going to [01:07:55] use it as an instrument, and use [01:08:00] it to change the way people react to you, people get to know you, use that to create [01:08:05] the brand, your identity, your character, to showcase the [01:08:10] best of yourself.
It's an instrument, but only if you learn how to play it.
Wow, [01:08:15] that is, that is profound. So, I love that [01:08:20] analogy. And Roger. You work with celebrities, and I had [01:08:25] the honor of working with you, but most people listening aren't going to be able to do that. So is [01:08:30] there a cliff notes to this or a quick and easy way to, to learn [01:08:35] this?
Yes. Okay. And I came with a present. Oh, okay. Because, uh. Because I, I don't, [01:08:40] I'm not, I'm interested in giving away what I know or I wouldn't even do these interviews. You're a generous [01:08:45] guy. And basically you can go to rogerlove, R O G E R L O V E, rogerlove. com [01:08:50] forward slash Dave. Why not? Forward slash Dave.
That's easy to remember. And you can, and [01:08:55] I'm giving you, everyone a 50 gift towards [01:09:00] purchasing anything of, of the programs that I, that will teach people. So [01:09:05] if you've, if listening to this has inspired. your listeners in [01:09:10] any way to realize that voice is the makeover that they need next, that [01:09:15] voice is the life change, the voice is the change that's going to get them to the next level, go.
And [01:09:20] I'll give you 50 towards any of the programs speaking or singing as a present and, [01:09:25] and that's the fastest way.
Thank you. And if you're listening [01:09:30] right now, think about getting this for a young person in your life, someone who's going to college, if they're [01:09:35] still making that mistake, or someone who's just getting going in their [01:09:40] career, because if you're young, Every episode I've recorded actually are things I wish I would [01:09:45] have known when I was 20.
That would have just saved me millions of dollars and countless suffering. [01:09:50] And learning these skills early on in life, it changes the people you spend time [01:09:55] with, it changes who you end up dating, uh, it changes your career. It changes [01:10:00] everything. And if you're any other age, this stuff keeps you young. It gives you energy.
It's really [01:10:05] important. I've under indexed this for years, even compared to something like functional [01:10:10] movement or just being fit or respiratory and fitness and all that stuff that I've [01:10:15] studied ad nauseum. This is important, and it's a major part of biohacking. So [01:10:20] thank you, Roger. Thank you so much. See you next time on the Human [01:10:25] Upgrade podcast.