Dave: [00:00:00] Are there people who are fat because of their genetics?
Len: There are people that are fat because they're [00:00:05] predisposed to being poor metabolizers of carbohydrates and other [00:00:10] things. Being fat will kill you. The one thing that I started seeing is, you have, and I live [00:00:15] in LA, so you have a lot of people that have this, uh, you know, what's that, big face?
Len [00:00:20] May is the
Dave: CEO of EndoDNA. A company that uses [00:00:25] DNA testing to make health and lifestyle advice more personal. With decades of experience in [00:00:30] cannabis, genetics, and health tech, he helps people understand how their genes affect the way they [00:00:35] respond to cannabis and everyday habits that impact their well being.
Len: Some people [00:00:40] want a quick start on, uh, you know, losing weight. Great, but it's not something you should stay on for the rest of [00:00:45] your life. And if you're not doing with that, you're not just losing fat, you're losing muscle [00:00:50] and you're losing bone density.
Dave: GLP 1 is a longevity drug. Interesting. And if you take it at [00:00:55] high doses, it's, it'll shorten your life.
If you weigh 300 pounds and you take it at high doses [00:01:00] and follow the protocols that I've talked about with multiple doctors to form them, you should do that. If you know your genetics. [00:01:05] Well, you know, if GLP ones are a good idea, you're listening to the [00:01:10] human upgrade with Dave Asprey.[00:01:15]
We've got DNA, cannabis, [00:01:20] precision health. You're a weird guy to interview. You
Len: ever heard that before? [00:01:25] I was introduced last time I was speaking somewhere as an auto didactic polymath. [00:01:30] I had no idea what that was. So I had to look it up and get a book on it. Was [00:01:35] it true? I think so. I think it all started with my ADD.
So I always [00:01:40] looked at ADD as a disorder before because you're diagnosed with something, but I [00:01:45] really found it to be an advantage. So
Dave: ADD or ADHD kind of [00:01:50] similar sides of the same coin, or in my case, those plus Asperger's when I was younger, which is [00:01:55] curable, at least in some people, um, it's kind of a superpower because you [00:02:00] can't make us pay attention to stupid shit.
Exactly. Yeah, it is my superpower. [00:02:05] Yeah, I like that. That's not what we're going to talk about here, but I do want to talk about brains. And [00:02:10] you are, uh, an unusual brain with a pattern matching system. I feel some kind of kinship there. [00:02:15] Um, I see patterns the way most normal brains don't. And [00:02:20] you've also gone really deep on cannabis.
Yeah. Now, cannabis is [00:02:25] not my drug. Like, I take it. Doesn't matter what strain. [00:02:30] I want to go to sleep and eat and that's it. And like, no, no [00:02:35] benefits. And I've used CBD and all that kind of stuff. What's wrong with me? Yeah. Where do you want me to start [00:02:40] with your mother?[00:02:45]
Len: You know, it's the, the biohacking community itself. I find it fascinating [00:02:50] that, you know, they talk about cannabis that only has to do with Delta nine [00:02:55] tetrahydrocannabinol THC, but we don't talk about the primary regulating system of our bodies, which [00:03:00] is the endocannabinoid system. It's about 1100 different ones, right?
Yeah. So. I [00:03:05] think the idea is, and one of the reasons why I started with cannabis and going back to my ADD [00:03:10] is when I discovered that cannabis is my medicine. That works for you. It [00:03:15] works for me, but it's cannabis is broad. There's so many different components to it. Defining [00:03:20] your ratio is where your secret sauce is, and it's avoiding those adverse [00:03:25] events by finding out what doesn't work for you.
And doing your genetic test that way, but I think [00:03:30] learning what the endocannabinoid system is and how it functions helps people understand [00:03:35] this is an endogenous system that you can use. You don't need [00:03:40] phyto cannabinoids exogenously. If you have, if your endocannabinoid system is [00:03:45] functioning the way it's supposed to, you're good.
But if it's not, then you have exogenous, [00:03:50] you're lucky you have a plant that you can get plant medicine and subsidize where you're [00:03:55] naturally deficient in. But how do you know that? So you have to find out about yourself and that's why I launched [00:04:00] EndoDNA in 2017. That was the first goal, to look at your [00:04:05] endocannabinoid system, your genetic predispositions, and see how you can [00:04:10] avoid adverse events.
And that's the overall goal of the company when we started. And what
Dave: are [00:04:15] the adverse events from cannabis you're avoiding?
Len: If you don't mind, can I give like an overview of the endocannabinoid system? [00:04:20] Please do, yeah. So, the endocannabinoid system is our primary modulating system. Its job [00:04:25] is to maintain homeostasis, which is balance.
And the way that it does that, it gets signals from the [00:04:30] other systems that we have in our body, like our endocrine system, our immune system, sends that [00:04:35] information up the central nervous system to the brain. Then your brain gets to decide which [00:04:40] neurochemicals to express. And the two that are part of the endocannabinoid system are called [00:04:45] Anite and two a G, so a, e, a and two Ag.
And when it [00:04:50] secretes those neurochemicals, it helps to modulate if there's something that [00:04:55] is out of bound in one of other systems. Okay, so. The challenge [00:05:00] that a lot of people have, there's genes like FA fatty acid amid [00:05:05] hydrolyze, so that gene produces an enzyme that breaks down metabolizes anandamide.[00:05:10]
So if you're a person that actually has an AA or a homozygous [00:05:15] allele combination of variant in that gene,
Music: mm-hmm .
Len: You are breaking down more an antibody than the [00:05:20] average person. So what that means is. If there is an event like, [00:05:25] you know, I'm crossing the street and a car pulls out of nowhere, almost hits me.
So I'm going to have the expression [00:05:30] of a bunch of neurochemicals, as you know, uh, it's a root, kind of dopamine, adrenaline, norepinephrine, [00:05:35] cortisol. Now, when my brain realizes no lion chasing me in the jungle, [00:05:40] uh, There's going to re uptake those neurochemicals and my brain is going to release new neurochemicals.
[00:05:45] One of them happens to be anandamide. But if I'm breaking down anandamide more rapidly than the [00:05:50] average person, that cortisol can stay longer in my bloodstream. So what's it going to do? Well, it can lower [00:05:55] my pH level, make me more acidic. It can actually create an overactive immune response. I'll [00:06:00] feel inflammation.
So people are treating inflammation and pain like I'm just going to [00:06:05] numb the pain instead of following it to see where it's coming from. So if I'm able [00:06:10] to subsidize with phytocannabinoids, like anandamide from the plant, [00:06:15] then I can bridge that gap where I'm deficient in anandamide and be able to get [00:06:20] my level just right.
Now, the issue is delta 9 THC, which is [00:06:25] what gets us high, that, that one molecule in has a [00:06:30] very narrow therapeutic window. So if you do just enough, Great, but [00:06:35] if you do too much, which is what most people do now, it triggers those adverse events. [00:06:40] So if you have a predisposition to stress reactivity, it'll turn that on predisposition of [00:06:45] ptsd.
Oh shit This happened to me, you know three months ago when I consumed cannabis now you're [00:06:50] playing that over and over in your brain and then some people have a predisposition [00:06:55] to taking an event traumatic event and storing it in their subconscious and during [00:07:00] duress it can bring that up to the surface So now you haven't A very intense [00:07:05] experience.
Let's just say, I want to ask you about your memory. If it works this way, because it's really [00:07:10] odd. So I remember like vignettes, like I can call my friends [00:07:15] up and my friends say, how do you remember? I'm like, I remember what you're wearing that day. I remember the whole [00:07:20] environment. It's like a little movie that's placed in my head.
Dave: You get that? When the movie [00:07:25] plays in your head, are you outside your body or inside your body? That's because you're just [00:07:30] so disassociating. So you're remembering that because your body [00:07:35] flipped sympathetic. It's real common in ADHD and all. Right? And if you were in your body, you would have [00:07:40] remembered it from within your eyes.
So the reason you're remembering those times of stress, [00:07:45] A lot of things you remember, that's the body keeping you safe. So I don't remember those like that [00:07:50] anymore, but I used to. But I don't leave my body that often. And if I do, it's generally because I [00:07:55] planned to.
Music: For
Dave: an extended journey. Exactly. So, what kind of cannabis is going [00:08:00] to help me do that better?
Uh, we have to do your DNA test. The answer might be none. [00:08:05]
Len: You know, it does, it does. Like, I have a, we have nine, eight patents in different [00:08:10] formulations. One of them is to help focus. So I have certain it's the terpene. The [00:08:15] cannabinoid ratio is one thing that's important, but it's the terpenes that really are important.
A lot of people [00:08:20] overlook those, which are the essential oils in the plant. And
Dave: if you smoke it, the terpenes kind of get [00:08:25] damaged, right?
Len: It depends. If you smoke it in a combustible, like a joint, [00:08:30] then they burn at the same exact Uh, at the same exact speed. If you're doing a [00:08:35] vape, then they burn off or they convert to other things and cannot be as [00:08:40] beneficial, may not be as beneficial.
Dave: Vapes are generally bad for you anyway, right? I agree. So, and so is [00:08:45] breathing burning stuff. Yeah. I'm always torn, so, I'm not a huge fan of cannabis, just [00:08:50] because, It doesn't work for me. And I know some people with autism and epilepsy where it's [00:08:55] just been life changing and it's medically necessary for some people.
I'm also on Daniel [00:09:00] Amen's board of directors. And he's got half a million brain scans that show, you know, cannabis is not [00:09:05] good for the brain. And I think that there's a large number of those people who are [00:09:10] taking too much. and the wrong strain for their brains. And I think [00:09:15] there's almost certainly if you could take a brain and say for your brain, for [00:09:20] this case, this strain that you wouldn't see the changes.
[00:09:25] And you know, over time, as you get more data, well, let's talk with Daniel. I mean, he's one of the more curious and open [00:09:30] minded guys, but he'll tell you regular cannabis use is probably not a great choice. Yeah. [00:09:35] And. Would be willing to additional science and I love you're doing the science because I [00:09:40] cannot discard the reports of the people who say cannabis changed my life for the better.
There are absolutely people [00:09:45] like that.
Len: I'm in agreement and disagreement with Dr. Amen because we've done [00:09:50] 10 clinical studies were published from PubMed. Yes, you're absolutely right. There [00:09:55] are certain things. And I believe that is a free radical of anandamide that you're taking [00:10:00] too much. And if you're taking too much, your, your brain, your body is reacting to that.[00:10:05]
So if you find the right dose of the right neurochemicals or the right phyto cannabinoids are right for [00:10:10] you, then it works. It fits right in. And then if you're not, [00:10:15] then your body is going to tell you and that's where you have those adverse events.
Dave: It's probably similar [00:10:20] for some like nicotine. You know, up to 10 milligrams of nicotine a day [00:10:25] is not particularly addictive.
Like, that's the very upper limit, maybe keep it to 6 or 8 [00:10:30] if you don't want to get addicted. And if you do that, unless you have weird [00:10:35] receptors, it's probably going to be really beneficial for you. But you go way higher, like, oh look, I [00:10:40] have ED and my hair is falling out. Well, welcome to excessive nicotine time.
Music: Yeah.
Dave: Right? [00:10:45] So, does that mean it's good or bad? Oh, and was it smoking or was it nicotine? And [00:10:50] that leads to the question for you though, with cannabis, what's the best way to take it?
Len: I believe [00:10:55] sublingually is the best way to take it. That way you bypass your liver. Okay, and oil? An oily as [00:11:00] a tinctured, uh, so sublingual delivery, sublingual buckle [00:11:05] cavity delivery.
It'll bypass your first pass your liver converts [00:11:10] a Delta nine THC to some call it 11 oxy hydroxide Delta nine. So it's a [00:11:15] metabolite. Then it goes back and attaches to your receptors in your brain and releases [00:11:20] an endemic, but it's a different substance that you're consuming if it goes first pass. So [00:11:25] sublingual delivery and it's consistent.
Because when you're smoking, you have all these [00:11:30] different, uh, you know, components to it. Yeah. But if it's consistent and you want it as a [00:11:35] therapeutic formulation, now you have to make it consistently every single time. That's the best way I [00:11:40] think to take it.[00:11:45]
Dave: In my new book, In Heavily Meditated, I'm going through all the ways of [00:11:50] entering altered states that are beneficial for people. And there's a chapter on [00:11:55] psychedelics and I use ketamine at 40 years is in my neuroscience clinics. I'm not [00:12:00] opposed to these things. And I go through lists in order of what's least likely to cause short [00:12:05] term harm and have some benefit.
And cannabis is actually the first one. Like if you're completely naive, you [00:12:10] probably should get high with cannabis by eating it. And then, you know, move down the list, [00:12:15] but. There's still issues where someone really close to me [00:12:20] quarter tab of acid things are okay half a tab Serotonin [00:12:25] syndrome which can kill you right?
And that doesn't [00:12:30] happen with ketamine, by the way, but it happens with most of the other psychedelics. So can genetic testing [00:12:35] tell people which psychedelic is likely to have the most benefits and the least harm?
Len: Yeah, so we [00:12:40] have a mental health test that looks at your genetic predispositions to the adverse effects of [00:12:45] ibogaine LSD, ketamine, MDMA, and [00:12:50] psilocybin.
So if you have genetic predispositions and you're taking too much, it can trigger those [00:12:55] adverse effects.
Dave: So I've done everything on that list, um, except for [00:13:00] Ibogaine, which I've been wanting actually to do because of old traumatic brain injuries, but [00:13:05] Ibogaine has some substantial cardiac risk, and I'm only doing that one in a hospital where [00:13:10] there's, you know, paddles and something to stay clear, just in case.
And I've, I've done [00:13:15] shamanic training. I, I'm not talking about recreational use, although I am going to Burning Man for the 12th year. I don't know, [00:13:20] opposed to once in a while having fun, but usually I'm, I'm taking it for spiritual work. I'm just [00:13:25] full disclosure for you and for people on the show. So, all right.
I will actually [00:13:30] order your test to do that. And, uh, I know [00:13:35] I'm sure we asked you for a code here because you can talk about some cool you're working on. We always [00:13:40] strong army to give us a code because listeners want to go. What? You're not going to give [00:13:45] a little discount for our people. Len 25. Nice. There you go.
Guys. Endo [00:13:50] dna. com code Len Len L E N 25 to 25 [00:13:55] percent off. You sure? That's a huge discount for people. It's free. You're your audience [00:14:00] guys. You can tell. This is a definite planned marketing, [00:14:05] whatever. I actually just wanted to interview Len because he knows a bunch of stuff. And [00:14:10] generally, anytime someone's selling something cool, I'm like, give our guys, uh, our listeners a little, little bump.
So thank you. That's [00:14:15] very generous and completely unexpected. So other than usually at least going 10%, [00:14:20] there you go. EndoDNA. com. When people get the test that you [00:14:25] make, does it talk about other things outside of psychedelics?
Len: [00:14:30] Yeah. It talks about what we do is we do a whole genome. Okay. So the whole human genome, [00:14:35] 149 bucks.
Yeah. So, so our, our customer is a [00:14:40] healthcare professional.
Dave: Okay.
Len: But I can order directly, right? We can order directly as well. But we [00:14:45] white label that for healthcare professionals. So what happens is we did our endocannabinoid system [00:14:50] test. We did that for several years. Then, uh, a doctor named Dr. Jennifer [00:14:55] Berman she's one of the top female sexual health doctors in the country.
[00:15:00] She reached out and she said, Hey, I have two issues with my patients. Number one, [00:15:05] there's patients who are young women, late twenties, early thirties coming in with [00:15:10] perimenopause symptoms. The second thing is I have a lot of women are coming in with really, really [00:15:15] Adverse, uh, effects of menopause like hot flash, severity, weight gain, [00:15:20] et cetera.
It's like, is there a way that we can get ahead of that? Totally.
Dave: There's a way it's all genetic,
Len: right? [00:15:25] So we developed a menopause biotype test. Did we look at that genome? So what we do now is [00:15:30] we'll do the whole genome and we'll give you, we have a, it's AI based LLM. [00:15:35] So we have LLMs, large, uh, learn language models specifically for those tests.[00:15:40]
So you, if you are female and you're ordering your menopause biotype, and if the doctor wants to [00:15:45] say, well, what's you, I want to do your nutrigenomic test, you can just press a button and you order a [00:15:50] nutrigenomic test from that genome. But that one's been extremely helpful because we're able to get [00:15:55] ahead of those symptomatic conditions that express themselves by doing hormone optimization, [00:16:00] personalized supplementation, et cetera.
So the doctors are really our
Dave: customers. There's [00:16:05] kind of two camps. So. There's the genetic camper. Everything is genetic. And they'll try to [00:16:10] argue. Cancer is genetic, dude. It's not. There's no common patterns. Right. And then there's the epigenetic [00:16:15] camp. Yeah. Which is, it's all about the in the environment.
And that's kind of me, like biohacking, change the environment [00:16:20] around you. You'd have control of your biology. Yeah. Epigenetics and longevity, consciousness, all that stuff. So [00:16:25] the reality is, is that if you don't have the switches to turn on or off in your genetics, it doesn't matter what you [00:16:30] do in the environment.
Right. So you need to know both. But there's been a lot of nonsense out there [00:16:35] in the genetic testing realm. So how do you know? If the genetic [00:16:40] test that you already have is nonsense or not.
Len: Well, what we did was we made sure that [00:16:45] every single report has a peer review reference citation of PubMed or equivalent to PubMed.
[00:16:50] So there's not no research around it. We don't, we don't present it. But you're absolutely right. [00:16:55] It has to be both. So your genetics, I always look at it this way. It's sort of your GPS of [00:17:00] life. When you do your genome, you know where your own personal potholes are in your own [00:17:05] road. You can still, I can, you know, I live in Philly, so I can drive from LA to Philly [00:17:10] without a GPS.
Am I going to get there at some point? Am I going to hit some traffic jams, some [00:17:15] potholes, accidents? Yes. But if I know that I have my GPS, I know what to [00:17:20] avoid. So yes, it gives you information and empowers you with [00:17:25] lifestyle choices that are specific to you. So I completely understand and agree. [00:17:30] You have to book on that experience with your genome, your lifestyle, [00:17:35] uh, changes and choices.
And then from there you measure how well [00:17:40] that protocol worked for you. So when we were working with doctors, we create a personalized [00:17:45] treatment plan based on your genetics. The treatment plan is then, you know, Given to the patient by the doctor, [00:17:50] then we would come back and we measure epigenic changes. So we measure [00:17:55] biomarker changes.
We measure biometric expression
Dave: and that's with the doctor. You don't sort [00:18:00] of that directly. That's with the doctor. Okay, cool. And so this is foundational, functional medicine stuff [00:18:05] or longevity medicine. And it's kind of, it's kind of weird. [00:18:10] Make a hypothesis, set a goal, test it, do [00:18:15] the thing, and then test it again to see if it worked.
That's a great way to look at it. Or you could [00:18:20] say, Oh, you have cholesterol. Let's give you a statin and let's just not do [00:18:25] anything for 30 years as your mitochondria decline. Like the, the state of, of [00:18:30] Western medicine is shockingly bad because of this, right? We just believed it [00:18:35] was going to work. And the approach you just described is biohacking or functional medicine.
It works in [00:18:40] exercise, it works in nutrition, it works in supplements, it works in medicine. But if you don't test [00:18:45] results, you're just a witch
Len: doctor. You're wearing a glucose monitor. So I got two [00:18:50] stories I got two stories. I, when I get, I get an annual physical, it's the only time I go to a [00:18:55] doctor and I get my blood work done.
Dave: Yep.
Len: I'm completely [00:19:00] paranoid and scared of when they, uh, take my blood.
Dave: Oh, really? So you have like needle phobia? [00:19:05]
Len: Well, no, I have a bunch of
Dave: tattoos. How's that possible, right? I don't
Len: know. I don't know what it [00:19:10] is, but my dad had it too. Maybe it's genetic. I should look into that. But I [00:19:15] almost pass out. Oh, wow.
So when I, when I get my, uh, when I got my results last [00:19:20] time, I saw that, uh, the doctor's like, your blood glucose level is a little high. I'm [00:19:25] like, I don't need sugar. I don't need sugar. I don't need me like a lot of
Dave: just get your sympathetic nervous system. [00:19:30] Turn out a little bit. Gluconeogenesis spam,
Len: right?
So luckily I have a functional medical professional and [00:19:35] she's like, yeah, I think it's probably the cortisol level you secreted when you were stressed. Mm hmm. A [00:19:40] normal, like a regular doctor would give you medication for your, your pre diabetic. Yeah. It [00:19:45] doesn't make any sense. It's like, if you want, wear a glucose monitor and we'll see.
And I did that for [00:19:50] several weeks and nothing. But that's what I'm talking about. Like, understanding that who your doctor [00:19:55] is, how your doctor, and so it's specific. It's personalized. It's not this, you know, take two of [00:20:00] these and call me in the morning. Mm hmm. Why am I taking two? Why not one? Why not four?
You know, how [00:20:05] do you, how do you know how to metabolize? You don't know this about me. And I have another quick story of how [00:20:10] genetics play a role. So I have a friend of mine, really successful business person, [00:20:15] and he was an adventure. Something happened, didn't go well, became really depressed. And he [00:20:20] went to a doctor and got an antidepressant.
So he was running around LA and [00:20:25] driving around the canyons with his son and his wife. And he goes, I had an overwhelming desire [00:20:30] to drive off the cliff because it was so real that I had to pull over [00:20:35] and I got out of the car and my wife said, you're okay. He's like, no, I should not be driving. So it [00:20:40] went back to the doctor and he asked if he can get a pharmacogenomics test because we did [00:20:45] his genome too.
And it looked all the drug that he was prescribed was [00:20:50] red. He shouldn't have been taking that drug in the first place. And he also has treatment resistant [00:20:55] depression. Thank you So it wouldn't work for him anyway, but he suffered all the side effects, which is suicidal [00:21:00] thoughts. And I was doing a talk in front of a bunch of big pharma executives [00:21:05] and doctors, and I said, Can I ask a question?
How many of you do a [00:21:10] PGX, a pharmacogenomics test, prior to prescribing an antidepressant?
Dave: Nobody does, and it should be [00:21:15] standard of care. Zero. And so, Newsflash, if [00:21:20] you have a doctor who wants to put you on something for depression, you might want [00:21:25] to look at what Daniel Amen says and I say about Safran, which [00:21:30] works much more broadly than a lot of the pharmaceuticals.
And you [00:21:35] probably should get a genetic test to see which pharmaceuticals might work. Because [00:21:40] otherwise, it's literally Russian roulette.
Music: Yeah.
Dave: And some of those things make you act weird. I mean, [00:21:45] suicidal ideation is one thing, but You know, there's people like drop into where it's sex addiction. There's correlations with [00:21:50] school shootings.
Like there's some weird stuff. So I got no problem with any [00:21:55] pharmaceutical. And some people get really mad about that. If I can trigger you, it means you're carrying a loaded gun and my fingers on [00:22:00] the trigger. So you should read my new book and unload that crap because there is no moral [00:22:05] anything about statin like they do what they do.
[00:22:10] And it's how you use it and where you aim it. So cool. What I [00:22:15] what I would recommend is if you're going to do the big guns, which you may actually benefit from greatly. To know [00:22:20] what your body can handle. So thank you for bringing this up. No one talks about this. I think [00:22:25] I've talked about this maybe once in 10 years.
So thank you because that's a big deal. What is the most [00:22:30] dramatic benefit of properly dosed genetically chosen cannabis [00:22:35] that you've seen in your experience here?
Len: I mean, so many stories. So, Besides my [00:22:40] own because I was put on prescription medication until I found cannabis. Which one? I don't even remember like [00:22:45] Ritalin maybe?
Adderall. Adderall. No, no, it was before Adderall. Dude, Adderall. Ritalin.
Dave: Ugh, I hate
Len: that stuff. They're all [00:22:50] bad. And I, look, I can't say it didn't work. It depends how you define work. So it did help me [00:22:55] to focus, but it removed my sense of self. There was no emotion or [00:23:00] feeling. You're just walking through life without Love without any [00:23:05] passion of anything, just not, not the way people should show up in the world, but I'll tell you [00:23:10] a couple of stories.
So I don't get to interact as much as I used to with, uh, with, uh, [00:23:15] people. Uh, but I was in Brazil. I was, uh, speaking in, in Sao Paulo and there [00:23:20] was a line of people that was lined up afterwards to meet me because they're, they're doing our genetic testing and [00:23:25] our formulations in Brazil. And there was these two people, there's one woman with her daughter.[00:23:30]
Our daughter was in a wheelchair, and she has really severe autism. Um, [00:23:35] she said for, for years she was non verbal. But not only non verbal, never communicated with [00:23:40] her eyes. She just had a blank stare. Wow. Until we did her DNA test, got her formulation. [00:23:45] She actually said, thank you and spoke and she goes, you renewed a completely [00:23:50] new relation with my daughter.
We didn't cure her. She's not running, you know, a marathon, [00:23:55] but it improved her sense of self. And then there was this one guy with [00:24:00] his mom and he's like, she couldn't get out of the chair. She was so depressed. She just [00:24:05] sat. And now? She's cooking in the kitchen again. Like meth or something? Yeah, [00:24:10] meth, but it's okay.
Dave: At least she's cooking something. This is a heartfelt story. [00:24:15] That was Breaking Bad coming in. Um, but that's amazing. It changes [00:24:20] people's lives and for people who are sitting in judgment of cannabis right now, those things are [00:24:25] real and Those patients have a right to try and to see [00:24:30] what works and what if you have the data to try that seems like a better way to do [00:24:35] it and it might not have worked, but if you stop trying, you'll get those same things where [00:24:40] sometimes they'll say, I used to have Asperger's syndrome and some people get really mad, go, [00:24:45] you can't cure Asperger's syndrome and I'm like, I guess I don't exist then [00:24:50] like, what does that mean?
Right? All these weird beliefs. So there is [00:24:55] merit to using cannabis. Or mushrooms or [00:25:00] amoxicillin
Music: or
Dave: modafinil at the right time or [00:25:05] DMT at the right time for the right person for the right results. And there is no moral judgment on any of these. And [00:25:10] if you find yourself getting, Oh my God, I can't believe Dave's promoting cannabis.
I'm [00:25:15] not. I'm promoting the right tool for you to enter the state that you [00:25:20] want to with the minimum harm and ideally no harm at all. And that's all it is. And cannabis [00:25:25] has to be on the list.
Len: Yeah. Well, I think it's also people's misunderstanding of how [00:25:30] drugs work in the first place, because when you have these classifications, oh, well, this drug is bad.
[00:25:35] Well, why? Well, because Politicians and pharmaceutical industry said it's bad. Well, [00:25:40] cocaine. Well, cocaine. Why is cocaine bad? We use it scheduled to narcotic But how does it [00:25:45] work? Well, if you're doing the you know, the ligand the exogenous [00:25:50] cocaine, it'll bind to your Dopamine receptors squirt a bunch of dopamine And [00:25:55] it'll block the reuptake of that.
So now you're getting that but it's not it's not the [00:26:00] cocaine It's your own dopamine and then your brain says, okay Wait a second. I don't have to produce my own. I can get it from [00:26:05] something else. So I'm going to send a signal. Give me more of that kind of thing. So this is where [00:26:10] people like what makes this one good.
This one bad, if it's effective for you and it's [00:26:15] safe and you know how to dose correctly and you're under supervision, why not? Who's going to tell you why [00:26:20] one is worse than the other?
Dave: Big
Len: pharma has been trying to
Dave: move into cannabis for a long time. And so is big [00:26:25] tobacco. Yes. What's your take on that? Um,
Len: yeah, I mean,
Dave: So you got it.
I saw [00:26:30] the sensor come on, like they still might want to acquire me. I can't. Well, no,
Len: because I'm in communication. I'm in, I'm in [00:26:35] talks with a tobacco company right now. Very big one [00:26:40] that,
Dave: but I've met their head of R and D the one you're talking about. So I have Switzerland, so
Len: yes, [00:26:45] exactly. So here's a story is interesting because they have [00:26:50] A tobacco company, they have a vape company.
They also have a pharmaceutical company that they [00:26:55] own. That pharmaceutical company specializes in medication specific to the diseases that are [00:27:00] caused by their products. So I find it fascinating. And I believe that, you know, [00:27:05] cannabis to actually elevate us out of the dark ages of this is a, you know, this [00:27:10] drug, illicit and all that stuff.
You have to work with the pharmaceutical industry, you have to get [00:27:15] consistency, like this is the thing with cannabis, it really bugs me that if [00:27:20] I have a genetic predisposition and I'm in California and I have this tincture and it's the [00:27:25] right ratio of cannabis and terpenes, well if I go to Pennsylvania, I mean I get the same [00:27:30] thing, it's different everywhere, we don't have that consistency, so we need that Pharmaceutical [00:27:35] oversight or some sort of oversight to make sure our testing zone point and so I can [00:27:40] get the same Supplement in every single state no matter where I go.
I don't have to worry about it[00:27:45]
Dave: I flew out to [00:27:50] Switzerland and met with the lead R& D guy from one of the big tobacco companies I'm not gonna name them [00:27:55] for just because I don't know if you want to talk about it, but this guy [00:28:00] Incredibly brilliant mitochondrial expert. Yeah. And we talked about how [00:28:05] nicotine increases mitochondrial function.
It's a exercise memetic. It's a longevity drug. [00:28:10] It's neuroprotective. And I've been talking about that on the show ever since for almost a [00:28:15] decade now. And he just said, we're not allowed to say that it's like everything we do, we have to [00:28:20] say. Smoking is bad for you. Nicotine is dangerous and deadly, but nicotine and tobacco are not the [00:28:25] same thing.
And I bring that up because smoking cannabis, which is what almost all [00:28:30] studies are on, is not the same as eating a cannabis [00:28:35] oil, putting it in your mouth. And it's not the same for each strain. It drives me nuts. [00:28:40] People are like, well, what's the most important thing you could do? Exercise. Oh, really? What kind of [00:28:45] exercise?
Right. Or cook. Oh, I should make French fries. No, no. I mean, cook something healthy. And you just [00:28:50] realize our brains will generalize things to the point of stupidity. [00:28:55] Right. And then it doesn't mean anything. And then we try it and we say it didn't work because we didn't actually try it. But with [00:29:00] targeted precision medicine, I think we have incredible stuff.
And one of the things [00:29:05] that I think is most powerful here, you look at something like lung COVID. Or chronic [00:29:10] fatigue syndrome, which are the same damn thing, caused by different things. Most chronic [00:29:15] fatigue is caused by toxic mold exposure. And I've done a big documentary on that. [00:29:20] And there's an interesting thing, if you don't know where your cannabis is from, you might be getting some mold toxins in there too, right?
Big problem in [00:29:25] the industry. How is that going to affect you? I interviewed a husband and wife couple. [00:29:30] They're in a moldy home. She's full on disabled. And she knows she's not crazy because [00:29:35] she has a temperature. So she biopsies every organ in her body. To try and figure out what's going on, eventually [00:29:40] they find out it's mold and none of her organs have a problem.
The whole time her husband's sitting there was also a medical doctor [00:29:45] going, I never felt anything, but I know it's real. And when you do a [00:29:50] genetic analysis, you'll find she has HLA DR4. And most [00:29:55] of the people who get mold poisoning, including me, that is hard to treat, [00:30:00] We're designed to take an arrow in the back and not bleed to death and to invade your [00:30:05] village and Steal whatever we want, not get sick from all your weird micros, go home, [00:30:10] take a shower and do it again, right?
and that combination of frequent clotting and [00:30:15] Active immune function means that mold will trash you sometimes permanently if you to do [00:30:20] So knowing that for your kids or for you and you're having weird symptoms [00:30:25] means that you're sick You know what supplements to take, you know what to do to block the markers.
And if we just [00:30:30] test everyone, dude, a third of people have this gene. It's kind of important, right? So do [00:30:35] you test that and does it have anything to do with cannabis? Oh, we do test that. Okay, in doctor's offices. Yeah,
Len: in [00:30:40] doctor's offices, but it's not even in doctor's offices. You can get a doctor's office and take it home with you [00:30:45] as well.
But yeah, we definitely test for that. Does it have something to do with cannabis? Yeah, because [00:30:50] Spraying cannabis is a big thing in the industry. So it used to be for [00:30:55] weight. People would spray with weight, and when you spray it, it creates smoke. Like with water? With [00:31:00] water. Okay. Now, people spray it with a different flavor or scent.
Like, you get a [00:31:05] strawberry cough. That's what's gonna mess you up. Exactly. That's why, that's why we have to have [00:31:10] consistency of production. It's one thing to say you want a ratio of cannabinoids and [00:31:15] terp terpenes to be a certain amount, but where do you get that product? So we as an [00:31:20] industry, the entire cannabis industry, has to treat the actual product like a pharmaceutical [00:31:25] product, or at least a nutraceutical, so it's consistent everywhere and safe.
Dave: Are there [00:31:30] people who are fat because of their genetics?
Len: There are people that are fat because they're [00:31:35] predisposed to being poor metabolizers of carbohydrates [00:31:40] and other things.
Dave: You can't call them fat. That was, that was rude. Sorry. I'm rude. [00:31:45] Just kidding. By the way guys, I weigh 300 pounds. And if saying the word fat is a [00:31:50] problem for you, get a therapist or get some GLP 1 agonists and learn how to use them [00:31:55] effectively.
Being fat will kill you. Yeah. And so anyway, but there are genetics, I just, [00:32:00] of
Len: course, and then the GLP one, since you bring those up, because, you know, we work with a lot of [00:32:05] companies are solid. The one thing that I started seeing is you have, and I live in [00:32:10] LA, so you have a lot of people that have this, uh, you know, was that big face and stuff.
And it's [00:32:15] interesting for me to see that people are starting to lose their, their, their, Muscle mass and they're starting to [00:32:20] lose their bone density. Like there's DEXA scans there before and after. So if people are [00:32:25] doing that, first of all, some people want a quick start on, you know, losing weight. Great.
[00:32:30] But it's not something you should stay on for the rest of your life. And if you're not doing resistance training with that, you're [00:32:35] not just losing fat. You're losing muscle and you're losing bone density. And so I want people to really
Dave: realize. [00:32:40] Thank you guys. Dave Asprey dot com slash GLP. There's a full protocol.
And [00:32:45] what you just heard you got to get enough protein. I don't care if you don't want to eat it. Do it anyway. And then enough of the [00:32:50] right minerals and the right the right resistance training and some mitochondrial support, and [00:32:55] you can use it very safely at low dose. And every two [00:33:00] weeks I inject 10 percent of the normal dose of Reta Trutrat, which is a [00:33:05] third generation GLP 1 just for longevity.
And it's a tiny, tiny [00:33:10] microdose. What does that do? It's a third generation GLP, so it blocks GLP [00:33:15] 1 and it also blocks glucagon.
Music: Got it.
Dave: So it's just a more powerful [00:33:20] one for weight loss with less side effects and stronger longevity effects. And I'm saying that [00:33:25] since the very first interview on the show, GLP 1 is a longevity drug.
Interesting. [00:33:30] Uh, and. If you take it at high doses, it's, it'll shorten your life.
Music: Yeah.
Dave: [00:33:35] If you weigh 300 pounds and you take it at high doses and follow the protocols that I've talked about with multiple [00:33:40] doctors to form them, and they're free, by the way, like literally Dave Asprey. com slash GLP. It's just, it's [00:33:45] free.
Get, get that. You do that not being fat is [00:33:50] going to extend your life more. So you should do that. [00:33:55] And if you know your genetics. Well, you know, if GLP ones are a good idea, [00:34:00] so what genes affect GLP one sensitivity?
Len: Well, it's the, it's the, it's how [00:34:05] you metabolize is really important. So
Dave: I just have less
Len: fat
Dave: or
Len: carbs.
You're saying how you metabolize fat and carbs. [00:34:10] Yeah. So if you're, if you're a poor metabolizer and, and also dosing of the GLP ones, [00:34:15] how much do you need based on how you metabolize those GLP ones as well? Are you a rapid [00:34:20] metabolizer or you're a slow metabolizer?
Dave: Wouldn't it be amazing if every time you had any [00:34:25] Hold on a second.
Wouldn't it be amazing if every time you had any [00:34:30] pharmaceutical, you already had your genetics, so you could just look it up and see what to do?
Len: Hey, the country of Iceland [00:34:35] genotypes every single person there. I don't understand why we don't, but that's why I started saying, well, the doctor says you take [00:34:40] two of these.
Why is it only two?
Music: You
Len: never told me, like, you never looked to see [00:34:45] how I metabolize. I could be an ultra rapid metabolizer. Like, you brought up CBD. I'm an ultra [00:34:50] rapid metabolizer of CBD. So if I take a dropper full, I'm really creating expensive urine. I'm [00:34:55] peeing it out really fast. So I need two to three times the amount.
But if I don't know that and we talk to people like [00:35:00] you takes to be, it doesn't really work for me. How much do you take a dropper full? Well, how do you know that's the right amount for you [00:35:05] if you didn't do that? The other thing I wanted to mention, uh, that we didn't talk about a little bit as [00:35:10] Alzheimer's, so we're in the middle, we're in the middle of a clinical Uh, trial, uh, with a a [00:35:15] drug called TB 006 into it's, uh, a galactin three [00:35:20] inhibitor.
So galactin three club creates amyloid plaque, the same amyloid plaque that's in our [00:35:25] in our heart, like arteries, uh, it's the same amyloid plaque that's in your brain. And if you have [00:35:30] an APOE four, uh, genetic predisposition, that's the genetic predisposition Alzheimer's, [00:35:35] but you're also lifestyle choices create a lot of amyloid plaque, you're more likely to [00:35:40] express Alzheimer's.
So we're doing this study, but the one thing that in the study, when they did [00:35:45] their original phase one, there's a certain genotype that this drug doesn't work for. [00:35:50] RS 4644. So they know this for sure. So now we screen everybody for [00:35:55] the presence of that genetic predisposition. So they know that it's going to be efficacious for them.[00:36:00]
Dave: One of the cool things you can do is you can upload your genetics to [00:36:05] whatever AI you work with. Yeah. And say, Hey, take a look at this. Or you can look at [00:36:10] the. Output of the report, and it'll provide really good recommendations. And if you [00:36:15] work with a system actually designed for that, you'll get even better ones.
Len: So we do that too. We can take raw data [00:36:20] from any, like a 23andMe leftover results or answer sharing. If you [00:36:25] upload it to our site, we'll, uh, we'll interpret that and provide a report.
Dave: Super [00:36:30] cool. I believe that everyone listening needs to have their [00:36:35] genomics you need to do this for pharmaceuticals and you more particularly, you need to do [00:36:40] this because there's a good chance you have not just MTHFR and [00:36:45] Gary Breka has been on the show and he talks about that a lot.
That was a big, a big focus [00:36:50] of mine for my first book on fertility in 2011. And in fact, I said take folinic [00:36:55] acid, not methylfolate, and now they're finding that that's the thing that is [00:37:00] making autism symptoms go away in people. It's a different form of folic acid that bypasses methylation [00:37:05] stuff better than methylfolate.
But anyway, uh, I'm digressing a little bit there. [00:37:10] And if you have that, then you know, and you can change your supplements, but there's about 20 [00:37:15] other things like the way you handle sulfur and nitric, uh, nitric oxide [00:37:20] and histamine and the list goes on and on. If you know, it's going to [00:37:25] create amazing relaxation and peace going.
I, you know, I'm not crazy. Every time I eat that, it really does mess me up. [00:37:30] And you know why? And then, you know, what to do to counteract it and it [00:37:35] has taken me decades to figure out all my own weird stuff like that. Some [00:37:40] of it finally was with genetics. Most of it was with just deep, deep research and understanding.[00:37:45]
It doesn't have to take decades and, you know, 2 million to reverse your age the way I did. [00:37:50] Because it's getting way easier with genetic tests. So go to your functional doctor and ask for it. And
Len: who knows
Dave: what might [00:37:55] happen.
Len: Do you do microbiome testing also?
Dave: I was a very early [00:38:00] advisor and investor in biome.
Yeah. I've worked very closely with Naveen and his team for a long time. I do [00:38:05] test that. And it's amazing. There's, there's things like firmicutes and bacteriodetes, which are two [00:38:10] common species. The Bulletproof Diet. If you have brain fog and [00:38:15] attention issues, you probably have too much Firmicutes and not enough Bacteriodetes.[00:38:20]
So there's one kind of prebiotic you should take, right? And a common [00:38:25] prebiotics actually won't work because they'll feed both. So all of a sudden now you have like a scalpel [00:38:30] like control. So what's in your microbiome? Or you could just go to Viome and say what should I [00:38:35] eat to make it better? And they'll just tell you what to eat.
Although, Naveen, I hate mung [00:38:40] beans. I don't care how many times I tell you mung beans. No, I'm not doing that.
Len: It's funny [00:38:45] because when I did my Viome It said that bell peppers are inflammatory food for me. [00:38:50] I just wanted people to understand, just because something is healthy, and it has vitamins, maybe your [00:38:55] microbiome is not set up for that, and it's inflammatory.
Dave: Yeah, I don't think bell peppers are particularly healthy [00:39:00] for anyone, and they're a nightshade.
Music: Yeah.
Dave: But some people can survive on them, and they taste good, and it [00:39:05] doesn't cause a lot of harm. For me, give me a couple bites. The arthritis I was diagnosed with [00:39:10] when I was 14 comes back. So genetically, those are off.
But Viome is interesting because they're not looking at genetics. [00:39:15] They're looking at your biome. And it also says not to. Everything in my body is like, [00:39:20] stay away from the peppers. And then my guts enter a masochist for dopamine. It's like, eat [00:39:25] the chili. So, I gotta resolve that. Some kind of deep meditation in a cave or something.[00:39:30]
There you go. Some DMT. Lynne, you're doing really cool stuff, uh, [00:39:35] endodna. com and what was it called? Lynne25? Yep. Thanks for that gift. For [00:39:40] real. For sure. And I'm really serious, guys. If you're going to do [00:39:45] any kind of psychedelics or plant medicine, you really should do this. It's a big discount. You're saving like [00:39:50] 50 bucks.
And this is not like a sponsored thing. We're just, just hanging out. [00:39:55] But yeah. It's not much money, and it could save your life [00:40:00] if you have serotonin syndrome. Do you know the incidence of that? I know it's more common in Eastern Europeans. [00:40:05] But, uh I'm Eastern European. I think it's like 1 in 40, if my memory is right.
Don't trust me on that [00:40:10] entirely, but it's a meaningful number, and you don't have to be Eastern European for you to have [00:40:15] it. Knowing that, holy crap, you might have a really bad night and end up in the [00:40:20] ER the first time you do psychedelics, if you have that genetic, and it's unlikely, [00:40:25] but it's possible, and it's cheap to prevent it, so if that's your issue, then [00:40:30] do something that doesn't act on serotonin, you can do ketamine or cannabis, you'll be okay,
Len: right?
[00:40:35] I never understood why people, like, don't want to find out as much as they can about [00:40:40] themselves. Like you are here for a short period of time [00:40:45] if you're gonna in you being a biohacker, obviously But find out as much as you [00:40:50] possibly can do everything do every single test possible So you can learn because we're all [00:40:55] individuals and if you know what you're genetically predisposed to what you're epigenetically [00:41:00] Expressing all these different things are just information.
So if you know this about yourself You can [00:41:05] take measures to prevent things from occurring, and I don't know why people don't, everybody should do that. [00:41:10]
Dave: I've talked with a lot of people that like, I might find something that's a false [00:41:15] positive, or I might not like what I find, and like blissful ignorance.
It's a weird [00:41:20] strategy for me. And to that point I've had the guys from [00:41:25] PreNuvo on. This is a whole body MRI thing. I went up and got to know the founder when they [00:41:30] only had one location in Vancouver. I was like, this guy is really smart. And we did an [00:41:35] episode, and I think it's probably code Dave still, wouldn't surprise me.
But, they called [00:41:40] me about six months later. And said, That episode saved 25 lives. So [00:41:45] they tracked whoever, you know, signed up with the coder, said that they heard about it on the show. And they [00:41:50] said 13 people had late stage cancer that they could [00:41:55] treat. They would have just not known about it, so it was too late.
And the other ones had aneurysms that were about to blow. Wow. [00:42:00] And lots of people have, you know, a small aneurysm, right? And then they get worried. And there's one influencer [00:42:05] who's like, you know, I'm forgetting who it was. What was it? Is it Glucose Goddess? [00:42:10] I saw something online recently, I think that's who it was.
She's like, I'm not sure that I'm happy I did this, because I had to test this [00:42:15] thing, now I know it's in there. But here's the thing. It could have been a big one about to kill [00:42:20] you, right? And knowing you have something and worrying about all the time, if you have a problem with worrying, get your [00:42:25] genetics done, figure out what's going on with your catecholamines and stop worrying or learn the [00:42:30] reset process thing or do EMDR.
Like this is within your control, but I think it's [00:42:35] it's out of integrity. You see, I could know how to be more present, how to [00:42:40] live longer, and how to honor the gift that is life. So I'm not going to do that because I'm [00:42:45] afraid. I'm like, that's not right. Well, thanks for doing the hard work on [00:42:50] genetics and combining it with psychedelics, which is legally [00:42:55] well, fraught with risk, but doing it anyway, because people have a right to know, and I think we're [00:43:00] about to open the door on a lot of consciousness, and doing it safely, because we're doing legit.
So, thanks. [00:43:05] Thank you. I appreciate it. See you next time, on the Human [00:43:10] Upgrade Podcast.