Super Detergent, Nanobubbles & Living Water: A Whole New World of Wellness

 [00:00:00] Dave: You’re listening to The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Our guest today is a futurist. And I absolutely love futurists because I am one as well. She’s also a disruption investor, which makes what she’s going to share with us really, really interesting because I think biohacking has been disrupting traditional health and medicine, and Upgrade Labs is disrupting your gym membership right now.

[00:00:28] So sometimes you just have to break dumb things with things that are way cooler. And that’s what not only is she doing, but she’s investing in. So we’re going to talk about how we bring STEM technologies, the science, technology, engineering, and math into things like preventing infection, treating water, and even things like fighting climate change.

[00:00:51] You guys have heard me talk about the fact that I was the first investor to back what is now Elon Musk’s a 100-million-dollar carbon capture XPRIZE. You’ve also heard me say that carbon is a distraction if we keep coating ourselves in endocrine-disrupting atrazine and glyphosate. So I want us to focus on the near and present problems, but let’s not ignore the 100-year problems. So we’re going to get to talk about that today. And you’re going to learn about nanobubbles and the future of health and wellness from someone who’s really, really well qualified. 

[00:01:23] Saba Yussouf, welcome to the show. And you’re dialing in from Dubai.

[00:01:28] Saba: Yes, it is 11:30 PM here. I’m tired, but I just had a Bulletproof Coffee.

[00:01:34] Dave: You got one at 11:30 at night? Oh, my God. I want to say you’re doing it wrong, except you’re doing it right, because that’s what they’re for when you really need to bring it.

[00:01:43] Saba: I flew in from London late last night, so I don’t know what time zone I’m on right now.

[00:01:49] Dave: So you’re already jet lagged anyway. It doesn’t really matter. 

[00:01:51] Do you get jet lag?

[00:01:53] Saba: Yes. Heavily, actually. I try to plan it. When you work backwards, and you count the hours, and then you think on the plane, okay, I have to go to sleep at this time, it just never happens.

[00:02:02] Dave: It can happen. The trick is you got to have the TrueDark glasses. And they’re glasses that trick your–

[00:02:09] Saba: Oh, yes.

[00:02:10] Dave: Body into believing that it’s night time, and then you never eat when you want your body to think it’s night time. Those two things. You land, you get bright light, have your coffee. Obviously, it’s going to have some butter in it. When you do that, magically, you don’t get jet lag. But it’s the color and intensity of the light on airplanes. And airplanes are always backwards because they feed you food and turn off the lights based on where you took off from, not where you land. So last time I was in Dubai, zero jet lag. And it’s so liberating to do it. And you need to have modafinil too. Do you take modafinil?

[00:02:44] Saba: No, I don’t, but I have read up on it. But first, I need to get the glasses.

[00:02:49] Dave: I think you need the glasses and the modafinil. There’s basically no excuse for jet lag. So I’m publicly jet lag shaming you.

[00:02:55] Saba: You’re shaming me. Great start. Thank you, Dave.

[00:03:00] Dave: What kind of futurist are you if you still get jet lag? That’s so 1990s. My God.

[00:03:05] Saba: I was only born in ’88. I’m much younger than you, Dave.

[00:03:08] Dave: I was also born in ’88.

[00:03:10] Saba: I had to shave you back.

[00:03:12] Dave: Are you saying I look old? Is that what you’re saying?

[00:03:14] Saba: Not at all. With your diet, never.

[00:03:18] Dave: All right. Let’s talk about nanobubbles. I’m actually really, really interested in them from a biological and metallurgy perspective. So tell me why you care about nanobubbles, what are they, and why are we talking about them?

[00:03:31] 

[00:03:31] Saba: As someone who’s obsessed with science, I came across nanobubbles probably about eight years ago, and I focus a lot on Japanese sciences, scientists, technologies, and Israeli and Turkish, because honestly, in my opinion, they had just produced some amazing products around the world. 

[00:03:48] So I was just talking to some Japanese scientists, as I do for fun, to catch up on the gossip, and they were telling me about nanobubbles. The amazing thing about nanobubbles is that they are so small. So via a liquid, they can enter your body. So I thought, okay, what would I want to enter my body that I don’t have enough of? And I started thinking. And obviously, we know the benefits– of your body, yeah. So we know the benefits.

[00:04:15] Dave: I know coffee. I was–

[00:04:16] Saba: Oh, coffee. I know. I have wanted 

[00:04:18] Dave: want To enter your body–

[00:04:19] Saba: I have too much of that, yeah.

[00:04:20] Dave: Okay. That wasn’t it. I was just guessing. I didn’t mean to interrupt you there.

[00:04:24] Saba: And I thought, okay, well, we know that the benefits of the hyperbaric chamber and what oxygen does to your body, benefits, but I thought, I spend a lot of money on oxygen water. I know for a fact that the oxygen doesn’t actually get into my bloodstream because by the time I’ve opened the water bottle, the oxygen has evaporated, and I can almost hear it sometimes.

[00:04:47] So I know it was a farce, but I just kept drinking it because I was brainwashing myself into thinking I was doing something good. So I spoke to the scientists, and I asked, can we put oxygen in these nano bubbles? And we worked on it, and we got there, and we managed to make the smallest oxygen nanobubbles in the world. 

[00:05:06] So when these oxygen nanobubbles go into your body, because they’re so small, they don’t evaporate. They actually get into your bloodstream. And as you know, there are lots of benefits to oxygen actually reaching your bloodstream. Your hemoglobin goes from regular hemoglobin to oxyhemoglobin. Your cognitive function is better. Your digestion is better. Your energy is better. Your lactic acid breaks down faster. 

[00:05:27] So I was very happy with this disruptive technology. And then what we started doing is we actually tested it in farms because my priority was animals before we got to humans. Because I thought it was a bit of a luxury item for humans, that we just focus on the priority first. Because a lot of animals get sick. 

[00:05:46] And we tested it out, our nanobubbles in a few farms, and we saw that the animals, and even crops, when they consumed our nanobubble oxygenated water, they would never get sick, their mortality rate went down by half, they were weaned off probiotics, and they actually produced more lean muscle mass for the farmers. So I managed to pass on a profit to the farmers, it’s sustainably sourced food at the same time. No antibiotics, no chemicals.

[00:06:14] Dave: So are these pure oxygen, or are these just air that you’re making the nanobubbles with?

[00:06:18] Saba: No, it’s pure oxygen.

[00:06:21] Dave: Can I make nanobubbles at home?

[00:06:23] Saba: No, not yet. I’m working on it, Dave.

[00:06:26] Dave: All right.

[00:06:27] Saba: Give me a few years. I’ll find some way to put them in a handheld gadget for you to carry around in your pocket on the aeroplane.

[00:06:37] Dave: Yeah, I want nanobubble lasers on the airplane implanted in my cheekbones so I could just nanobubble.

[00:06:42] Saba: I’m taking notes. I got it. I got it. Yeah, I got it.

[00:06:47] Dave: Is this a giant shipping container that does this? How of this are we–

[00:06:52] Saba: They come in different sizes, so the smallest unit is probably the size of a microwave. And the biggest, it just depends on the size that you need. It’s done by how many cubic meters of water we need to pump per day. We were trying to make it smaller so it can actually become a B2C household item. That’s my dream. But first, we’re focusing on the animals and the crops to get everyone sustainably sourced food and water. And then, yes, I would love to start trials with humans. I’m very excited.

[00:07:23] Dave: Uh, well, sign me up. I’m probably in the wrong zip code for it, but, uh, this is something that’s really cool because at those nano levels, quantum effects start to happen. And what water does around tiny little membranes like that, it’s not what we think it does. And I’ve funded some of the research at the University of Washington with Gerald Pollack around small bubbles of water around fats. And these nanobubbles can penetrate all of that, and they change probably the surface tension of water. And of course, they’re delivering oxygen in a different way. And so I would also look at what else can you make bubbles of? Carbon dioxide might even be more–

[00:08:05] Saba: Well, that is a great question. Yes, you actually can. So we are working on ozone.

[00:08:11] Dave: Uh, that was–

[00:08:11] Saba: Putting ozone in there.

[00:08:12] Dave: Definitely good because you could do internal ozone therapy without an IV. 

[00:08:16] Saba: Correct. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We’re looking at ozone, and we’re looking at, um, a few different gases, basically. What is urgent, what is the priority, we’re trying to find a way to put that into the nanobubbles. And the nanobubbles are so small, by the way, that you can fit 3 billion nanobubbles into one champagne bubble. So they’re completely invisible. You wouldn’t even know that you’re consuming it.

[00:08:41] Dave: Wow. So you could probably put nitrous oxide in it.

[00:08:45] Saba: Yes, you can.

[00:08:47] Dave: That would be a very interesting party beverage now, wouldn’t it?

[00:08:51] Saba: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[00:08:53] Dave: That’s why you laughed.

[00:08:57] Saba: Yeah, so we’re working on it, and I’m really, really excited. But with science, as you know, things take time. And that is the bit that gets me. There’s so much good that we want to do in this world. And science, innovation, testing, approvals, it just takes a long time. So you have to stay motivated, not give up, and just keep going. And I think that’s the one drawback of being in science. The rest of it is just super exciting and fulfilling. It’s thrilling, but it comes with its hard days.

[00:09:32] Dave: It does. It can be really frustrating too when you know that something’s possible. 

[00:09:36] Maybe the hardest thing I’ve seen in my career in Silicon Valley is you’ll see someone come up with something that is noticeably better than the current practice. But then they’re an engineer. They don’t know how to market the thing.

[00:09:52] So then a provably inferior solution or product takes over the market that’s just stupid. And you have the guy is angry in his garage, and sometimes it’s because he tried to market it, and he didn’t know. Quite often, it’s because he partnered up with someone like a, uh, we’ll say a promoter, or a business person, or a partner, or even an investor, a venture capital firm that didn’t actually have his interests at heart.

[00:10:21] So then they start to get bitter and protective, and then like, this is my baby. No one can ever have my baby. And then those technologies end up not getting out there. I think nine of 10 transformative health techs never make it out of that. How do you spot those things, and how do you get them past that little hurdle?

[00:10:39] Saba: It’s funny you mentioned this because I’ve actually been on both sides of this. So I’ve been in the position where– I meet so many amazing scientists, and some of them, like you said, suffer because they maybe don’t have the business acumen and skills to get the technology in the right hands, just like I don’t have your skills. And we each have our own skill set. 

[00:11:02] So I’ve been around amazing scientists where, you know your gut feeling, your enteric system, that’s extremely powerful? That is what guides me. I know it sounds so fluffy, but I really, really trust my gut. When I meet a scientist, sometimes I know that they just want to sell out for the money, and it will go to the highest bidder.

[00:11:24] Or I know that they really care, and they really want to help, and they have dedicated their life to helping people. And I can spot it almost instantly because I have eight years of experience now, I have burnt my fingers. I have invested incorrectly, and I guess there’s a bit of wisdom there that helps me take the lead.

[00:11:43] And when I bid on the other side. So I co-invented one technology with a scientist, and I got offered 30 million to sell half of the company, and I said no because I could tell that I was about to sign a deal with the devil. Honestly, I just felt that this guy did not care about helping people. He just saw the dollar signs.

[00:12:05] He wanted to turn it into a commercial product that probably wouldn’t help the people that I wanted to help. And it would make him a lot of money. And I had to turn it down. And I had to reach out to my moral compass to guide me. And I don’t regret it. But it was a really hard decision.

[00:12:24] Dave: Wow, I don’t know that I have had that much wisdom over time. I do know there’s times when I’ve been assigned to deal with the devil, and it felt a little off, but it was a lot of money, and it was money to commercialize what I was doing. It was money that was going to help the world. And then, in fact, in one of those situations, I won’t name names here, at a subsequent round of funding, I get a phone call offering me a 75-million-dollar bribe.

[00:12:54] Saba: Wow. Yeah.

[00:12:55] Dave: I turned it down. And what it was, it was a person who was saying, if you’ll just lie about the value of the company, and you’ll sell me more of the company at half what it’s worth, we’ll split the profits. In my mind, this would have represented stealing from my employees who built the company. 

[00:13:15] And I just said, no. It’s cost me more than the bribe because it changed dynamics in that company. But there’s lines where if you’re working for the good guys, you’re working for the good guys. So it happens, but I want to know. I definitely didn’t follow my intuition when I took the first money in that situation I’m talking about, and people may try to guess what that is or not. I’m not saying. But I want to know, how did you learn intuition? Where did that come from?

[00:13:53] Saba: I’m going to say something you might disagree with. I think women have really strong intuition.

[00:14:01] Dave: Are you being sexist right here?

[00:14:03] Saba: I’ve noticed it. Okay. I’ve noticed it. And any women that are listening will totally get what I’m saying. Somehow, women just always know. How do we just always somehow know the truth?

[00:14:18] Dave: Oh, wait, hold on. You’re in Dubai. You’re allowed to say things like that. If you were in the US, I’m not sure you’re allowed to say that anymore. 

[00:14:26] Saba: Let’s ask your female viewers. No, I think some people have strong intuition in scenarios that they feel really close to. And that could even be connected on a quantum level because I’ve noticed that sometimes I have no intuition when it’s not my work or something that I really care about. I cannot decide. I’m indecisive. I change my mind every day. Maybe it is just our particular activation system in our brain, our energy, that we have stronger emotions, feelings when we actually connected and care about something.

[00:15:01] Dave: I don’t think there are many people who would argue with you about the fact that, on average, women have stronger intuition. And I certainly rely on women on my executive team. When they tell me it doesn’t feel right, I really listen. I listen to myself too. And I’ve done episodes on training intuition.

[00:15:19] And what oftentimes sabotages the women that I’ve coached women or that I’m friends with is when they get the intuitive hit, but then they override it with their brains. And actually, the smarter you are, the more likely you are to do 

[00:15:35] Saba: Yeah. 

[00:15:36] Dave: How do you avoid overthinking your intuition?

[00:15:39]  

[00:15:39] Saba: When it comes to work, this is going to sound strange, I’m not emotional about my work at all. Science is in my heart. Business is in my brain. I get to marry the two. I’m very lucky that I’m in this space, but I’m just not emotional about business. So I follow my intuition in business. In my personal life, or my friendships, my family life, I override my intuition all the time. And I regret it.

[00:16:06] Dave: That’s a common thing that women also do. You have the intuition. 

[00:16:11] Saba: I agree.

[00:16:11] Dave: You know you shouldn’t go out with that guy, and you do it anyway. Again, this isn’t true in all cases, but this is the stuff that we need to talk about. Men have our own type of intuition, and it’s different.

[00:16:24] Saba: Yeah.

[00:16:25] Dave: Probably more like Commander Worf from Star Trek. We know if someone’s going to kill us. The thing is you don’t see a lot of business people, especially in STEM, who are willing to acknowledge that intuition exists, even though it clearly does. And if we were measuring your galvanic skin response, which is one of the first measures in biofeedback, it changes in the conductivity of your skin, and it follows your intuition.

[00:16:54] So if someone walks into the room and they’re that dark force person, your body knows. And a primitive way of doing that is with muscle testing, which people say, you can’t believe in muscle testing. Dude, use a strain gauge. You can quantify muscle testing. You can’t trick it like that. And there are some things that some people can trick it if they want to, but it totally does work. So we could pretend it doesn’t, or we could STEM it, right?

[00:17:20] Saba: Yes. Yes, STEM it. I’ll write a paper on it. I think there is also a frequency proven that comes from the heart. So we already have STEMmed it. The evidence is already there, but I think it’s just a matter of time before people will accept it. I have my things that I have to accept in life as well.

[00:17:43] We have the enteric system in our gut, where something like 50% of brain cells up here, we have in our stomach, and that’s where the phrase gut feeling comes from. We have brain cells in our stomach. This is why I stress through my stomach. The facts are there. So whether we choose to follow it or not is a separate problem.

[00:18:02] Dave: It’s also interesting that that’s where the processing happens, and then where the sensing happens. You ever seen one of those weird carvings that’s from the perspective of the brain, they’re little statues, where, oh, I’m forgetting. Homunculus is what it’s called. And what is is it’s these little creatures, and they have giant lips, giant hands, giant feet, and giant genital, and everything else is really small. 

[00:18:31] And it’s a map of the human body based on where the nerves are. So we’re actually picking it up because we have this sense of taste. And we’re picking it up with all the things, in our hands, in our feet, in our other most sensitive organs. And so it’s senses come in extra strong there. And when you learn these advanced Chinese, or Ayurvedic, or the other esoteric practices, they teach you to start– you do your Qigong with your hands, but then it turns to feet, and then it turns to all these other esoteric places where you sense the world around you.

[00:19:02]  And then based on that, you get your intuition. And somehow, you tune it in. But you said something that confused me. You said science is in your heart, not in your brain. Most scientists, like my grandparents, would be like, are you kidding? It’s all cerebral. How is science in your heart? Are you one of those people who just knows how it works?

[00:19:24] Saba: No, not at all. My passion in life is science, but I grew up in a business family. I was instructed to study business at university. I just assumed that I would just be in an old family business of real estate and construction. Science was never a part of the plan for me. So when I say science is in my heart, it is the passion in my heart that pushed me to change my life plan, and it was just my obsession with science. 

[00:19:59] And I feel that science is my purpose in life. I don’t know how to explain it. I just feel committed to science for the rest of my life. And I have a business background. I have some business acumen, which is up here. And I get to apply that to science to try and better the world and further evolution. But yeah, it’s in my heart. It’s where I keep the things that I love, not necessarily the things that I think my life should be.

[00:20:29] Dave: Hmm. Okay, I understand. Part of intuition, there’s intuition about, I shouldn’t go into that room, or this person is not working for the good guys kind of intuition. There’s also intuitive leaps that inventors make where you just know.

[00:20:46] Saba: Yeah. Right.

[00:20:47] Dave: It’s a different thing. I do that. Some of my books, studies come out five years after I write it that are validating the things that I’m proposing. I’m like, here’s all the reasons around it, but no one’s proved this, but just try it. It works. And then we found out later, oh, it turns out MCT oil with H-carbon change really does raise ketones twice as high as the other ones, but we didn’t have the study. But you could feel it, and you just know, and it all lines up. Do you do that, or is that the inventors you find who do the intuitive leap for how something works?

[00:21:16] Saba: Yeah. So it’s a bit of both. The legal definition of a scientist is, I had to check because I’ll tell you why later, anyone that is learned in science.

[00:21:27] Dave: No, you have to have a license from the government to be a scientist. Come on.

[00:21:30] Saba: Really? Yes, yes, yes. I’ve heard that one before. Yes. And yeah, you’re really going to enjoy my story later. And I’ve had an intuition for science since I can remember. Since I was a kid. When I was a kid, okay, I might not have been able to invent things, but I was so curious. And in class, I would always ask the question that no one else is asking not because I’m better than them, but just my mind thought differently. And so I knew that I always had an affiliation.

[00:21:59] I felt the energy of science almost in my blood. So as I grew up, I was drawn to a lot of scientists, and I found that a lot of them, they didn’t have the best social skills, and we almost just connected over science without even speaking about anything else. So when I’m in the lab with them, I don’t think of things that are then proven five years later.

[00:22:23] I don’t have that strength that you have, but what I do do is I have an energy when it comes to science. And the way that I have invented things with my scientists, I’m quite sure hasn’t been done before. And I think the reason why, I don’t know if it’s intuition. I truly think it’s passion. When you’re passionate about something, your mind goes further.

[00:22:49] Your mind doesn’t stop where everyone else’s mind stops. And I think that is about being brilliant in whatever the hell you do. I’ve noticed that in people that are captains in their industry, it’s their passion that just makes them better, I think, and more successful. And I don’t mean financially. I just mean better at what they have chosen to do with their life.

[00:23:09] Dave: Passion fuels it. And there’s also the notion of a muse. Sometimes you just need to have someone else around you who also really cares. And then when you have a couple of people in a room inventing, it’s very different than inventing in your garage at the middle of the night. You oftentimes find it’s a couple of people, and they’re playing off of each other.

[00:23:32] And I think that’s a part of the cutting-edge stuff where breakthroughs– the stuff you’ll never find on ChatGPT because it’s looking forward instead of looking backwards. So it’s interesting to see how you create these things. 

[00:23:47] Before we get into Invisi Smart, which is what you’re working on, I’ve heard in interviews something about, you say that you won’t drink water when you’re eating out if we’re talking shit about each other. Why not?

[00:24:02] Saba: And that just goes to show the people that I hang out with sometimes. No. Water is so conscious, and it’s so powerful. I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Umoto before he passed away. 

[00:24:20] Dave: Oh, wow.

[00:24:21] Saba: Yeah. I felt, after that, that my life was complete. And I read some of his work, and we spoke briefly. And what he showed me, that if you have a glass of water, and you put a drop of soap in it, if you keep diluting that water thousands and thousands of times to a point where the water no longer has any soap in the molecule, that water will still behave as a surfactant, as if it’s soapy.

[00:24:54] That is how much memory water holds. It holds energy. It’s conscious. And when I’m sitting at a table and maybe there is some negative, thoughts and words coming out, I just don’t drink the water. And now that people know this, they watch me when I don’t so funny.

[00:25:21] Dave: Will you drink wine or something else?

[00:25:23] Saba: No, because there’s H2O in there. I mean, I just don’t. And I know people think I’m weird, but I don’t really care. I’m protecting myself. I’m protecting my energy. We’re over 70, 80% water, so if you’re so concerned about what food you’re putting into your body, which we are, why are we not concerned about what water is going into our body. I mean, like you said, it’s been stemmed. The proof is there over and over again. So I think people do need to really wake up to what water they’re putting into their body.

[00:25:55] Dave: I wouldn’t be drinking water at a restaurant anyway, unless it came out of a bottle because they always serve tap water, or they tell you, oh, yeah, we have a filter. You taste it, and it doesn’t taste like you have a filter. And if you do, it’s a crappy filter because there’s lots of ways of filtering water.

[00:26:09] And if water has a memory, which we both know it does, tap water, good God, where’s it been? It’s probably not what you want unless you go through multiple steps. What do you do at your house when you’re going to drink water? Do you like bless it with a crystal? Do you dance around a candle with it?

[00:26:27] Saba: No, but good idea. I’m going to start. Um, I’m sure it would appreciate a little dance. No, I actually drink my nanobubble water at home.

[00:26:36] Dave: Okay. Oh, so you have a nanobubble machine at home.

[00:26:38] Saba: No, I actually don’t. It is in the UAE, but I just have it sent over once a week to my house.

[00:26:43] Dave: All right. I’m coming over to visit next time I’m in Dubai.

[00:26:46] Saba: Oh, you must. You must.

[00:26:47] Dave: I’m going to drink the water and run away.

[00:26:50] Saba: But if I’m out, honestly, I just– oh, God, your listeners are going to think I’m just so weird, but I actually just say a little something. I just say a little something, like thank you, or I love you, or I’m happy, or something, and I drink it. You’re looking at me like I’m crazy.

[00:27:10] Dave: No, Dr. Umoto wouldn’t think that was crazy. In fact, he advises people to do that. And for listeners who don’t know about his work, you actually do. We’ve all seen it on Instagram or somewhere where there’s pictures of water with classical music played to it, and then it makes beautiful snowflakes. And then you play, I don’t know, Gwar or some death metal thing to it, and it’s all misshapen. Probably nine-inch nails would make for a weird looking crystal. 

[00:27:40] Saba: Yeah. 

[00:27:41] Dave: And it happens over and over. And you can pray over it, and I’ve trained with shamans. I’ve had them on the show, and yeah, your intent matters, and water’s one of the many mediums where you can do that. I don’t think you’re crazy, and if people think you’re crazy, honestly, have you seen what most people eat? They’re crazy.

[00:27:58] Saba: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Dave: I’m sorry. You’re eating that stuff? You are batshit crazy because we know that the[Inaudible] are going to fuck you up, and you do it, and then you’re wondering why you have diabetes. Okay. You can sing to your water. Whatever. We all get to make our choices.

[00:28:13] Saba: Yeah, but I think I am a bit crazy, but I love that I’m a bit crazy. I celebrate it, to be honest.

[00:28:20] Dave: The opposite of being a bit crazy would be to be normal. And as a math person, normal means average. Not that interested in being average.

[00:28:30] Saba: Nope. Statistically boring.

[00:28:33] Dave: Yeah, there you go. And guys, if you want to say good things to your water, then say good things to your water. And if you decide it doesn’t matter, it’s okay too, right?

[00:28:43] Saba: Totally. 

[00:28:43] Dave: We all pick our afterlife. Uh, but I wouldn’t judge you for doing that because I don’t think it’s crazy. But even if I did judge you for doing that, that’s my problem, not yours.

[00:28:52] Saba: Totally.

[00:28:54] Dave: All right. Let’s talk about Invisi Smart because I think I have an early version of this tech in one of my air filters, but I want to get into the details.

[00:29:02] Saba: Oh, great. Yeah, I’m happy to hear that. 

[00:29:05] Dave: So what is Invisi Smart?

[00:29:06] Saba: So Invisi Smart is a coating that I co-invented with one of my scientists about five years ago. It’s an invisible coating, so you can spray it on absolutely anything very quickly, and it dries within about five to 10 minutes. Once it’s dry– I can just give you a demo, visual aid, if I just spray it on my phone.

[00:29:27] Once the coating is dry, there will be these invisible reactive oxidative species spinning in the air. What happens is those ROSs, that we call them, they actually destroy matter. They destroy compounds. So therefore, they destroy virus and bacteria. And the power of titania has been around since the ’80s.

[00:29:48] And yes, it’s on air conditioning vents and so forth. And it is a very inexpensive way for disinfecting surfaces and the air. And the ingredients to make it are so ubiquitous that the costs are low, which I like because I like to invest in things that everyone is able to afford. So we were playing around with titania in the lab, and we realized a lot of coatings out there, they don’t actually last on the surface for that long. 

[00:30:16] So being a disruptor, I wanted to change that. So we worked out some formulas, and we blew a few things up in the lab, and we got the coating to stay on any surface for a very, very, very long time, almost indefinitely. And scientifically, that was always meant to be the case, but no company could actually prove it because they couldn’t get it to stick for that long.

[00:30:40] Dave: So it’ll stick even to Teflon and stuff like that?

[00:30:43] Saba: Yes. That’s my favorite material. Teflon. Yeah.

[00:30:46] Dave: And you’re not using PFOA as another weird endocrine-disrupting–

[00:30:50] Saba: No way. No way. I would never. It’s all natural and mineral-based. It’s actually water-based. Yeah, so we invented this. This is a funny story. It’s funny now, but at the time, it was very stressful. We invented this technology, and I thought that I was literally going to change the world.

[00:31:06] I thought, well, I can just disinfect everything, and I’m going to save the world because people will not be sick anymore. And so I started marketing the technology, the spray, that was, like I said, very inexpensive, and it would help evolution move forward because people would be healthier. And no one was interested in buying the technology.

[00:31:32] Dave: Because if it lasts for five years, it would absolutely disrupt all of the big chemical companies. 

[00:31:39] Saba: Correct. 

[00:31:40] Dave: They’re actually the great, great grandchildren of Rockefeller, which is why that monopoly extracted from the world energy is still present in them.

[00:31:50] Saba: Correct. And so I started marketing it to pharma. I started marketing it to governments, and I just couldn’t get a foot in the door. So slowly, we started making sales. We got up to about a million dollars in sales, which is nothing considering the power of this disruption. And I thought, oh my God. I realized what was going on. I realized that infection prevention teaches repeat cleaning. Medical books, hospitals, everything teaches repeat cleaning. Here, you don’t even need to repeat clean. You can clean once a year because it’s going to clean everything up. 

[00:32:25] Dave: Dust and stuff. Dust is–

[00:32:26] Saba: But dust would be different. That only requires water and whatever, but the actual disinfection, which is totally different to dust, it only needs to be done once a year because we put a formula in for once a year. And I thought, oh my God, I have spent $2 million creating a technology that nobody wants. 

[00:32:44] And I thought, what the hell do I do now? I hit that roadblock, and it was super stressful, especially because I thought I had just cured the world. So I had to disrupt further. I had to think. I had to think what to do with this. And then I realized that because the technology is universally bioactive, which means it cannot be applied to any compound, I thought, hold on, surely I can apply this to global warming because surely it should break down greenhouse gases. 

[00:33:15] And at the time, I couldn’t find any medical journals on it, but my own technology, we had proven in a medical journal at the University of Cambridge, it was published by the Wellcome Trust and peer-reviewed, that it is universally bioactive, and it works within X amount of minutes, and so forth. And I knew I had something. I just knew I had something, but no one was interested. So I started testing it against greenhouse gases.

[00:33:39] So nitrous oxide, and VOCs, and it was breaking it down very quickly. So out of the greenhouse gases, methane is probably one of the worst. So it would break down methane into some byproducts, including CO2, but methane is 80% more harmful than CO2. So I’m creating the lesser of two evils here. I’m still saving the world because I’m taking away the most toxic greenhouse gas.

[00:34:05] So it’s heating up the world at the fastest rate compared to any other greenhouse gas. And I thought, great, okay, I’ve saved the world again. I got it. I got it. I’m on the right track. And then I realized, asking someone to change their purchase psychology and their routine is not easy. Asking companies, and banks, and airplanes to apply a completely new disruptive product is not easy.

[00:34:34] And I thought, this is going to take me years for people to realize that this is going to save the world because I can reduce the carbon footprint of the world and I can get the temperature of our globe down to 1.5 degrees as we are planning with the Paris Agreement, or we promised with the Paris Agreement. So I thought, oh my God, what do I do now? I have to disrupt again. I thought, what do I do to get this technology out there? So this year, we came up with away health. What I managed to do is incorporate Invisi technology into laundry detergent. 

[00:35:09] Dave: I going to ask about that. Okay.

[00:35:12] Saba: So this happened because I was in the supermarket, and I was just staring at the laundry detergent, and I thought, I hate my laundry detergent. It’s so gross. It smells weird. It’s full of chemicals, bio-options in the UK are not that many. And I thought, this is such an old-fashioned product that really needs disrupting. And then I had my light bulb moment. 

[00:35:34] I thought, I can put Invisi in this because I know it binds to clothes. So I put Invisi into laundry detergent that is obviously bio. We’ve created our own. And put your clothes in the wash, Invisi binds to your clothes, you dry your clothes, you go wear your clothes outside, go about your daily life, and you are saving the planet because you are actually destroying the greenhouse gases in the air as you live your normal life. So I’m not asking customers to change their purchase psychology. I’m joining them. I’ve adapted to them. So I had to find a different way, a way I never thought I would go down to try and help fight climate change.

[00:36:15] Dave: Does it also fight BO?

[00:36:18] Saba: It actually does. It actually does, yes.

[00:36:23] Dave: If you really want to save the environment, learn how to wear a shirt more than one day. Imagine how much water, and soap, and electricity, and all the other crap you save.

[00:36:34] Saba: I will make sure we put that on the back of the packaging, and I’ll quote you. 

[00:36:38] Dave: Right. There you go. Yeah. Saving the world one stinky armpit at a time. 

[00:36:42] Saba: Yes.

[00:36:44] Dave: Uh, does it absorb in your skin though? I mean, things that create free radicals– titanium dioxide is in sunscreen and things like that. Um, probably different particle size, but some of the nanoparticles can cross cell membranes and probably just gum things up.

[00:36:59] Saba: Correct. So that’s when you get on into the nano level. So if it’s a nanoparticle of titania, absolutely, it can go through the barrier, but we only work with micron level for that reason. So we just don’t know that. Yeah.

[00:37:14] Dave: Okay. So it’s larger particles that wouldn’t do that. 

[00:37:16] Saba: Yeah.

[00:37:17] Dave: That’s a good answer. I appreciate that. And that’s why I don’t like nanoparticle mineral sunscreens, but I don’t mind microparticles. Okay. And you’re not using little plastic nanospheres that clog up the oceans, I’m guessing. That seems like that would be [Inaudible].

[00:37:32] Saba: That would be redundant. 

[00:37:38] Dave: All right. That’s cool. I’m intrigued. I haven’t tried it yet, but one of the reasons that I wear merino wool, or leather, or cotton clothes whenever I can is that plastic clothing, or vegan leather, and things like that have a large carbon footprint, but they also make plastic particles that you breathe and end up choking fish.

[00:37:58] So I’m all about the animal-based and plant-based fabrics that decompose. And probably the most evil one is fake fur. Real fur, you can compost. Fake fur, your grandchildren will have it incorporated in their spinal cords. You’re so environmental. Maybe we need to rethink that. 

[00:38:19] Now, what I was thinking is one of the various air filters I have, and I have, I don’t know, people send me all of them. And I’ve had toxic mold. And so I tend to have crazy stuff. One of the ones I have, and I do not remember the brand, has a titanium dioxide-coated filter medium and a UVA bulb inside it that activate very strong free radicals.

[00:38:41] So when things go through there, it sterilizes everything. And, uh, it was interesting. So you’re taking advantage of that, but putting it in clothing. I also remember, a while back, I had a Volvo, and before you laugh at me and say, what the hell? You had a Volvo? Yes, I’m a dad. But the reason I had a Volvo is that for a brief time, Volvo made the equivalent of the BMW M series. 

[00:39:04] They made racing Volvos. It was called, uh, an R series, and I had an R series Volvo station wagon because who would ever give a ticket to a Volvo station wagon? It’s the least likely car. So was the [Inaudible], and it had all the breaks, and twin turbos, and that stuff. It felt good to beat a sports car in a station wagon. It feels like a [Inaudible]. But one of the things it had was a coating on the radiator that would actually break down the greenhouse gases as you drove, uh, which was pretty cool. And I imagine it’s probably a similar coating to what you do. I don’t know what the tech behind was.

[00:39:39] Saba: I will definitely look it up. 

[00:39:41] Dave: Yeah. So there are definitely people thinking about, how do we do passive things that replace what we already do but do it better? And even something you mentioned at the beginning of the show, you were going to drink coffee. So doing it mold free and putting a couple things in it instead of cream, so you put something in, you change what you put in there, and magically, you got a different result. 

[00:40:02] I think we have a lot more mileage improving ourselves as a species by saying, let’s do what we already do better versus let’s do something totally new. It’s taken more than 10 years to convince even a tiny fraction of people to take a cold shower, or to do an ice bath, or whatever. And it may never become something that all of society does, but we all wash our clothes. We all drink our coffee, unless we’re weak-minded. I’m just ripping on non-coffee drinkers.

[00:40:31] Saba: I’m letting you. I’m staying quiet. I sing to my water.

[00:40:38] Dave: There you go. That’s right. I sing to my coffee. I actually mapped to it. That’s my side label. You have another thing you’re working on too that’s interesting as we get into the future of biotech. Fix Labs. What is Fix Labs, and why is it called that?

[00:40:59] Saba: Yes. No one’s ever asked me why it’s called that. So my business partner, Sara Al Madani and I, she lives in Dubai as well, we started a brand called Fix. And the reason it’s called Fix is because we want people to understand straight away that we’re helping. So the products, they’re based on disruptive deep science and affordable luxury because I believe that the next thing in STEM is going to be scientific excellence. Because of all the information we have from experts like you, Dr. Huberman, people are informed now. 

[00:41:33] So people have high expectations of what they’re taking, and they don’t just want some basic supplements that are not even bioavailable and filled with sugars and starches. now we expect better things. So I just wanted a space where there was one hub of products that I had checked, and researched, and formulated based on pain points that actually made sense to people and are really good quality. Because it’s confusing. It’s overwhelming for people now, health, and I think everyone deserves the right to health, not just the 1%.

[00:42:06] Dave: I like it. I agree with you, and I think that there’s a lot of things you can do that are free that improve your health, no matter how much money you have, if you know what to do. The first level is distributing knowledge, and there, it’s just a fight against big food and big pharma because they’re distributing– and I’m going to call this disinformation. 

[00:42:27] So misinformation is just a dumb insult for people to say you’re too dumb to know what’s going on, or they’re too cowardly to say that you’re wrong. So misinformation isn’t really a thing, but disinformation is targeted information created with intent to misinform people. And so we have companies using disinformation campaigns called advertising, telling you that cereal and skim milk is part of a healthy breakfast, and all this other nonsense, because they make money doing that. 

[00:42:55] So there’s a fight to be had there. And then there’s another fight, which is what you’re doing with Fix Labs in Dubai, which is how do we make supplements that work and that are affordable? And what I think you’re going to find, having manufactured and advised on supplements for more than 10 years, is that the ones that work best are more expensive because they’re the newest ones with the newest science. And over time, they become democratized. When I started taking NMN, um, was $3,000 a kilo. 

[00:43:26] Saba: Wow. 

[00:43:28] Dave: I had to buy it from China, and have it lab tested, and keep it in my freezer, and spoon out a little bit of it. But I’m an early adopter. No one’s going to do that unless you’re a biohacker. Until a couple months ago, you could just buy it in capsules, and then someone did a commercial move that is not well respected in the industry to take it off the market.

[00:43:46] Saba: I have publicly spoken about it. Yes.

[00:43:49] Dave: I’m good. Thank you. But the idea of those NMN is not going to be a supplement that, if you’re making $22 an hour, you’re probably going to take unless you’re desperately ill like I was when I was young. And then you’re going to do what it takes. So I want to say that there’s always going to be an expensive cutting-edge. 

[00:44:08] And what they’re doing is they’re breaking a trail that will become easier and easier. And the highways we have across the US, they were first footpaths. And then they were horse paths, and then they had wagons on them, and now they’re 10-lane interstates. But it takes time in supplements as well.

[00:44:23] So for people who are listening going, well, stem cells are $10,000 to get that done right now, that’s only for rich people, cell phones were $10,000 30 ago. So it’s coming. We’re making it cheaper as fast as we can because people like Saba want the same thing. We want everyone to have this.

[00:44:41] Saba: People like us. Yeah. We’re making it happen.

[00:44:44] Dave: Saba, thanks for coming on the show. I loved hearing about the intuitive and the softer sides of STEM. And thanks for doing great work in the world.