[00:00:05] Dave: You’re listening to The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Today’s episode is one where I’m going to use all sorts of words that might mean other things to make sure that our AI overlords are pleased within their bleepership algorithms so that everything that I say on the show doesn’t get suppressed, because we’re going to talk about the fourth F word.

[00:00:30] If you’re a long-time listener, or maybe not, there are four things that run your biology in order before you have a chance to think. And it goes like this. Is it scary? If so, run away from, kill, or hide. That’s fear. The second thing is, can I eat it? If so, eat all of it. That would be food.

[00:00:51] The next F word, if it’s not scary and I can’t eat it, what else could I do to it that would keep the species alive forever? It’s also an F word. Can you guys think of what it is? Oh! No, it’s not the one you thought of. It’s fertility. But yeah, it’s the other one too. And we’re going to not talk about the more– jeez, how do I say things without saying them in the world that we live in today where you’re not allowed to just talk freely on podcasts?

[00:01:16] But basically, it’s not the raunchy version of it, but the spiritual side of it. And then there’s, of course, the final one, which is friend, which is how do we form a community and things like that? So we’re going to talk about that third F word. We’re going to talk about the fact that you have a blueprint, everyone does, and that there are five erotic types that you can turn on and can fulfill, and you probably have one dominant type.

[00:01:44] And as I said dominant, our guest today, I saw her smile. She’s been on the stage at the Biohacking Conference and is truly a leader in the field of what I’m going to call somatic sexology, for lack of a better word, but the felt sense of what happens in intimate relationships. And Jaiya is hilarious. She’s very well studied, and we’re going to talk about your erotic blueprint, which is something she has invented and something that I found to be very, very useful and valuable in my own life as a guy who’s dating. Jaiya, welcome.

[00:02:26] Jaiya: It’s such a pleasure to be here. I’m so curious about all these things that are so hard to talk about because that is my life.

[00:02:33] Dave: Exactly. I’ve definitely had a few interviews that were a little spicy, and this isn’t in a titillating way. This is just, hey, look, let’s talk about what people actually do, including a guy who did the largest survey ever of what people fantasize about. And you found some really interesting things there.

[00:02:54] And I look at sex and intimacy as a form of nourishment, as important as food, as important as breathing. But it’s not taught that way. It’s almost like you should be ashamed of eating, so you only eat kale. And you should be ashamed of sex, so you, I guess, only watch porn. I don’t even know how the world is supposed to work. But it feels like that’s the direction it’s going. Why are people so weirded out by this stuff?

[00:03:17] Jaiya: I think we’re weirded out about sex because it is, like you mentioned, a topic we can’t even talk about. And then we have to use strange words to talk about it. I don’t know about you, but when you were little, it’s like, oh, don’t do the down there. Don’t touch the thing. And there’s some weird word.

[00:03:31] So we can’t even talk about the topic. And then when we can’t talk about something, it goes underground. And then we develop shame around the topic, and we’ve got whole institutions that create shame around it. And I actually think it’s like Alan Watts when he talked about the taboo of knowing who you are.

[00:03:49] I feel like there’s these taboo things. And the taboo things often lead to our own empowerment, and health, and wellness. And we put things that lead to our own personal awakenings in the places that we’ve deemed taboo. And so we build whole structures and systems around them and say, you can’t do this thing.

[00:04:09] And it is so odd to me because it’s like, okay, you want to learn an instrument. You go learn an instrument. There’s no shame about it. But when we go to learn about sexuality, it’s like, okay, now there’s all this weirdness about just learning a skill that we can do to make our lives more pleasurable, more easeful, more fueled.

[00:04:27] Dave: How did you get into this yourself?

[00:04:29] Jaiya: Well, I often say it started when I was really young. I was the kid who told everybody, your parents are telling you about the stork thing, and that’s not it. And let me tell you what the real low down is on this whole thing. And yeah, I was the one who you didn’t want your kids to be friends with because I was really into truth-telling.

[00:04:51] And truth-telling about what this thing called sex was all about. And when I was little, I wanted to be Dr. Ruth when I grew up. She was this inspiration to me. And I told my parents I wanted to go into fertility, speaking of using the word fertility for all this.

[00:05:08] Dave: What did your parents think about that?

[00:05:12] Jaiya: They thought it was cool. My mom was really open, so she’s a super free spirit. But my dad, on the other hand, was a super religious guy. I grew up in backwoods, Ohio, and so we’d say things like, now don’t go getting swell belly.

[00:05:30] Dave: How do I not know that one?

[00:05:35] Jaiya: Yeah, no swell belly. And so I grew up with this really interesting dichotomy of a mom who was really free and open about everything and then religious upbringing where it was bad and wrong. And so I’ve always had that dichotomy in my life. So I go to church and sing in the church choir. After, I was an exotic dancer, the moment I turned 18.

[00:05:56] I was like, I could not wait to become an exotic dancer. And so I would go out all night dancing and then go to church and sing in the morning. And so I’ve always had this really interesting blend of sexuality and spirituality. And how do we reconcile these two things?

[00:06:12] And not all forms of spirituality say sex is bad and wrong. And it’s really interesting to actually look at the texts and look at things that were really written about sex and how it could be utilized for our own spiritual awakenings. And so I became very, very interested in Tantra. I was like 19, and I was just like, give me everything. Because it was the one place that I found where sex and spirituality were not taken apart but were actually linked together.

[00:06:39] Dave: It’s been my experience throughout life, both from studying ancient manuscripts and just from living my life, that they’re intimately linked. And a woman that I was once partnered with many years ago, her Catholic priest told her when she was 18 that sex is how you meet God, which coming from a Catholic priest was shocking. And he was trying to remove–

[00:07:03] Jaiya: That’s impressive.

[00:07:04] Dave: Yeah, he was trying to remove shame from it and just saying it’s okay. And funny enough, there’s a study. 20% of people say that they meet God during orgasm at least occasionally even though their partners don’t know. So it really is a deeply fulfilling thing when it’s done right for you. And it’s different what when it’s done right, looks like.

[00:07:22] Because different people have different buttons. And you push your buttons on the other person, it probably isn’t going to work for them. So you’ve got to push their buttons. And your teachings on that are pretty freaking awesome. That’s why you were at the Biohacking Conference.

[00:07:35] By the way, guys, you can go to biohackingconference.com to get tickets for the one in May in Dallas, which will be our 10th one. But the thing is, we talked about it on stage. You have a survey on your website, which is free, or a quiz that tells you your blueprint. What is that? Just so people know, because people who are at their computers will probably do it right now.

[00:07:53] Jaiya: Yeah. blueprintbreakthrough.com.

[00:07:56] Dave: All right. And again, guys, that’s free. It’ll tell you your primary erotic blueprint type, and I would encourage you to pay a little bit more, and we don’t have any agreement, or financial thing, or whatever for that, but it’ll give you like all your percentage breakdowns. I like to think of it like love languages, but it’s for the bedroom. And I don’t know if you like that characterization or not.

[00:08:20] Jaiya: Yeah, I do. I love the love languages, and I love all these personality typing tests. It was where this inspiration came for the five blueprints, Enneagram and the DISC profile– really into all of those. And I thought, hmm, nobody’s really put out a personality typing test for eroticism.

[00:08:41] And I just started paying attention with my clients, and noticing patterns, and starting to notice how people were wired erotically and what really turned them on, almost like what language they spoke of when it came to their own arousal. And in paying attention, I started to notice these same things showing up over and over and over again in my practice.

[00:09:00] You mentioned me being a somatic sexologist. And one of the things that’s different between, say, a sex therapist, where you might go and just talk about sex, is that I actually work hands-on with people. So I’ve got somebody in my office on the massage table, and I’m helping his partner. He’s having trouble getting an erection, and I’m helping his partner, working with him.

[00:09:21] And it wasn’t in touching him that his arousal was. It was off his body, and his eyes opened really big, and he started shaking on the table, and he started having this big orgasmic waves, and she’s looking at me, and they’re both like, what is going on? And I just said, he’s wired energetic. And that was my first really big aha around, oh, wow, there are people whose eroticism is in the longing, it’s in the yearning. It’s in the not touching. It’s in this whole other realm than others.

[00:09:52] And then the next day, I was like, okay, now we’ve got all the– and then I just started seeing these five types lay out. And I spent five years really massaging that in office hands-on, like, okay, now who’s this person, and who’s that person? And working with the different couples who felt like they had mismatch or incompatibility. And then it just really started to solidify. And then when I started speaking about it, people were like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. So it just started becoming this bigger and bigger thing that was really landing for people.

[00:10:21] Dave: I like to think that I’ve done a pretty good job of spotting things before they happen and doing my best to shine light on them. And I think your work here is really foundational. And so I’ve just had so much value from it. Since we last spoke on stage at the conference, I did one of Kimi Inch’s programs where she brought in one of your trained and certified erotic blueprint coaches, and we spent almost a whole day in a small group going through and really understanding each of the erotic blueprints.

[00:10:57] And it’s remarkable because once you know that– I’ve even gone on dates where I’ll ask the person, hey, will you just do this survey real quick? And I will tell you, it sure does make it a lot easier to set up a good date if you know that that person is essential and like, all right, fine. They need candles, and good lighting, and expensive silverware versus they’re an energetic, in which case I have energetic stuff. I know how to do that.

[00:11:22] But I know how to play into them because I am a shape shifter and one other type too that we talked about on stage. And those are primary. We all have the ability to do all of them. But it was like, oh my gosh. And even if I was in a long term relationship with someone, knowing where they are, and then the other ones they maybe don’t know yet, but you can play with them and see how they fit, it kind of gave me a map.

[00:11:45] And so I just think your work is remarkable. And I’ve studied tantra not as much as you, and I’ve studied Taoism, and I’ve practiced semen retention and tried to disprove it and published all the data, pretty open about that stuff. It’s part of biohacking. It’s part of the environment around you, is your lover or lovers. And if you ignore that, because I’m going to upgrade myself in every way but I’m not going to look down there, I think you might be doing it wrong.

[00:12:12] Jaiya: Not sex. I think sex is the final frontier for a lot of people in personal growth and biohacking in these realms because it’s the one place we don’t want to look, but often it’s the place where we get a lot of rapid growth because it’s where so many things stem from. And so when we’re not looking at our sexuality, we’re missing such a huge piece of our own wellness, of our growth, of our spirituality.

[00:12:36] So many things are linked to it. And I think it’s a fast track. In Aghora Tantra, they talk about, okay, there’s meditating in the temple, but there’s the meditating in a cremation ground. Which one is the faster path? The householder path, or the tantric path, or the everything’s perfect path?

[00:12:57] And so a lot of people talk about in these paths that seem harder or– and I don’t want to say harder. There can be ease, and there can be lots of pleasure in them, but these paths that seem more taboo, it can be a much faster path to our awakening, and aliveness, and wellness.

[00:13:16] Dave: Let me ask you the hard question here.

[00:13:19] Jaiya: Yes.

[00:13:21] Dave: When I was in Nepal studying meditation with masters and going to a monastery, I went into Kathmandu, and I just randomly met a person on the street, and she was a former Berkeley philosophy professor who had read the old texts and decided that she could become enlightened in a single lifetime, what we would call fast path.

[00:13:42] So she was living in a cave, meditating for 12 hours a day with a Nepali family who would feed her. And she had just come down into town in order to get some dental work done. And I’m like, is this real? I just randomly ran into this person. Yes, it was real.

[00:13:57] Jaiya: So amazing.

[00:13:59] Dave: Right. And so that’s fast path. You can do it. And I doubt that was the tantric path. It was probably the I’m alone in a cave path.

[00:14:05] Jaiya: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:06] Dave: But all fast paths that I’m aware of in my training come with greater risks. You might get enlightened, but you might go batshit crazy. Okay. So if you’re on the fast path that involves somatic sex and somatic, just say interventions, anything somatic– massage is somatic. Anything that’s felt in your body is part of the soma. So if I was to go all in on tantra, and conscious kink, and all that kind of stuff, what percentage increase in you might go crazy would I be facing?

[00:14:41] Jaiya: I don’t know what the exact percentage is.

[00:14:44] Dave: But it’s higher, isn’t it?

[00:14:46] Jaiya: But it is higher. It’s interesting. Let’s talk about the risk. I think a lot of people, it’s not for them. And it does come with risk, and it does come with have somebody who can help you through it, have somebody who can guide you who’s been there, who’s done it, who knows the risk because, absolutely, it’s that edge of madness. You can put yourself right up against that edge of madness.

[00:15:10] I’ll tell you a quick story of something crazy that happened to me in Paris, wild. I’ll say wild, not necessarily crazy. But I was just in Paris over the summer. And I’ve been doing, like you, a lot of this tantric practice, a lot of breathwork, a lot of psychedelic work, all these different things because I’ve been a seeker most of my life.

[00:15:32]  And I’m sitting in a cafe in Paris, had not had any psychedelics, had not been doing any breathwork, nothing, none of those things. And all year, I’ve been like, I don’t want any tool. I just want to have these mystical experiences and an ecstatic orgasmic experience without anything, without sex, without psychedelics, without it. And I’ve been asking for it all year. And I’m sitting in this cafe in Paris, and all of a sudden it starts to happen. And I’m going, uh-oh. I’m in the middle of Paris, and this thing’s happening.

[00:16:01] Dave: And you’re just having orgasms.

[00:16:03] Jaiya:  I start to go into a complete, I don’t even know how to describe this state of consciousness, ego dissolution, in the middle of this cafe.

[00:16:11] Dave: Like a samadhi kind of thing?

[00:16:13] Jaiya: Like a samadhi.

[00:16:14] Dave: Dissolving into everything?

[00:16:15] Jaiya: Dissolving into everything. Couldn’t walk. They had to walk me back to my place. And I thought, okay, maybe somebody dosed me. I’ll get through this. Somebody might have dosed me. I thought, okay, eight hours. I’ll ride it out. It’s the next morning, still going on.

[00:16:32] They take me to the doctor because they’re just like– my vitals stayed fine, but it was like, what the hell is going on? And didn’t go away. The doctor’s like, maybe you should take some benzodiazepines. I’m like, no, I think this is something else. I don’t want to stop it. Let it go on.

[00:16:50] Dave: Awakening.

[00:16:51] Jaiya:  Four days later, still going on. Five days later, still going on. Six days. It goes past a week. Two weeks, still going on. And I start to panic. At some point, I’m just like, am I ever coming back? And you see the attachments you still have and all of these things of like, no, but my son, and no, but my work in the world.

[00:17:14] Dave: Are you just pelvic thrusting and moaning all the time? Give me a little bit more detail here like.

[00:17:18] Jaiya: Yeah. I was in ecstatic, like postures and hand gestures are happening.

[00:17:25] Dave: A kundalini awakening then. Okay.

[00:17:28] Jaiya: Yes. And then ego dissolution would happen, singing, and then there would be like, oh my God, I’m stepping up to the thing I always asked for. But no, I don’t want it. Let me go back. Let me just be a teacher. Let me have my life back. And couldn’t eat and sleep.

[00:17:47] And so when you talk about this, like going into madness, ecstasy is right on that edge. And I was right on that edge. Like, am I going into madness? Is this samadhi? All of these things. And so when I came back, it was just like, get everything checked, get my blood work checked. Is there something wrong with my brain?

[00:18:10] Dave: You were questioning this. Okay.

[00:18:12] Jaiya: I was completely questioning it. Boulder is really cool. I live in Boulder. And so they’re just like–

[00:18:19] Dave: Oh my gosh, I was there this week. I would have said hi. Geez. Okay.

[00:18:23] Jaiya: They’re like, no, I think this is just a spiritual experience. There’s nothing wrong with you. And the more I could rest into that’s what it was, light shows, geometry, everywhere I went, it was just– I couldn’t drive. I couldn’t function for a while. And then it started to calm down, but it was quite– so yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:45] The fast track has its risks, or these desires for these things. It’s like, okay, I’m really careful for what I wish for. And it taught me so much. You talk about upgrade. It’s like, okay, my baseline is different. Everything. My whole operating system is completely different after this experience. So yeah, sex can take you to these places.

[00:19:10] Dave: I have to ask it this way. What turned on that experience?

[00:19:16] Jaiya: We have no idea. We have no idea.

[00:19:18] Dave: You were just sitting at a cafe, and boom.

[00:19:20] Jaiya: I’m sitting in a cafe. I hadn’t even been doing any practices or anything because I was on vacation with my son. And that was the scary part. Even though I’d been asking for it, it was like so scary because it’s like, oh, if you take a psychedelic, I know that that caused it. If I have sex and go into these states of consciousness where I’m expanded, that’s normal for me, or breathwork class, or drumming, or any of these things that can take us into these ecstasies. But that was one of the scariest ones because it was “nothing” that brought it on.

[00:19:57] Dave: It’s interesting. Sometimes being in a certain place can do that, whether it’s a past life thing or the energy on the planet is different there on that day. A lot of my spiritual teachers have mentioned things like that. So you could have just stepped into the right place.

[00:20:16] Jaiya: Yeah, my therapist said that exact same thing. She’s like, you were just in a place and time, and who knows? Exactly what you’re saying. So mysteries.

[00:20:25] Dave: It’s been my experience. There are definitely some places on the planet if I go there’s something weird going to happen. And I can make up a story why. I could believe the story that I see in my spiritual journeying, or I could just say I’ve noticed this pattern, and all of those are valid.

[00:20:41] You don’t know. But you do start seeing patterns if you work with hundreds of people, or thousands in your case, which led you to do this. And I appreciate just frank and honest thing– that that can happen. It can happen from breathwork. When I learned art of living years ago with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, and I did it religiously for five plus years, every morning 15 minutes of breathwork in a week an hour longer, but they warned you, like, don’t do the long Kriya, it’s called. Don’t do it every day because you’ll float away, and you won’t be able to work.

[00:21:17] Jaiya: Right.

[00:21:17] Dave: It’s a not good thing unless you’re with people. Do we have that risk with– especially some of the really advanced tantric and conscious can’t practices it feels like you’re taking heavy duty psychedelics, but you’re not. It’s just your body. If you do that for two hours a day, are you going to float off into reality and have problems?

[00:21:41] Jaiya: Yeah. I think it really depends on the person. So for me, I talk about, in my book, a story of this experience where we were doing breathwork, we were making love, and he decided to put his third eye against my vulva, pressing it really hard, and it felt like my whole pelvis opened up, and I started laughing hysterically and crying hysterically, and then I just disintegrated. Completely. I was a poof nothingness and a complete nothingness–

[00:22:11] Dave: It’s so good, right?

[00:22:12] Jaiya: So good. That’s the best kind of sex for me, but I’m an energetic blueprint.

[00:22:16] Dave: Of course.

[00:22:17] Jaiya: I love that. And I’m laughing, and then I start to come back, and it was like I experienced the moment when we were stars. I was a star. And so I caught it. Remember, I’m a stargasm. But I’ve been cultivating this for 30 years. Since I was a teenager, I’ve been cultivating these things and cultivating using breathwork during sex.

[00:22:42] And I joked with him that night. I said, this is why I never took psychedelics as a kid, was because as soon as I found sex, I was like, I don’t need to do psychedelics. I’m having these really big expanded states of consciousness. And I think that’s a taboo topic, too, that people don’t want to touch, is blending psychedelics with sexuality.

[00:23:03] Then you got two really powerful– tantrics talk about Soma, and there’s the Maithuna rituals that had all the forbiddens in it. And so I think that’s also a really interesting topic. I think you and I have that in common of loving to explore ourselves. Okay, well, what does this do? And what are the metrics on it?

[00:23:24] Dave: I try everything at least once and probably twice in case I did it wrong the first time.

[00:23:29] Jaiya: Yeah. That’s always my rule, at least twice.

[00:23:32] Dave: Yeah, yeah. And some things, I wouldn’t be into that, but okay, maybe I am. Because how would you know until you try it? It’s all stories.

[00:23:41] Jaiya: Exactly. And the same thing with kink. I had an experience where I went to somebody, and I was like, let’s do spanking. I really wanted somebody to take me into those states of consciousness, subspace. And let’s do something where I actually let go enough to trust.

[00:23:58] Dave: It’s hard if you’ve never done that. You have to feel so safe to do it. But did you feel like you were taking drugs?

[00:24:04] Jaiya: The first one, my first experience where I really asked somebody to do that was with a lot of impact play. I didn’t yet know how to use my safe words. And so I just had this power battle and was just like, I’m not going to say red, even though it hurts. So I couldn’t sit for two weeks after that experience. And I didn’t quite get there. Good for you. You’re saying something, Dave, about your blueprint. And then I had somebody who was really good at psychological kink. And what she did was so brilliant. She took a belt. Nobody do this at home, please. She was an expert, and there was lots of movement.

[00:24:47] Dave: Really, this is a serious warning. If you’re going to do this kind of stuff, you need to know what you’re doing. And like I said, I just took a class with Kimi. And so, yeah, you can hurt someone’s making them the wrong way, just to be clear.

[00:25:01] Jaiya: Yes. Or putting belts around their neck, which is what this scenario was. So I had a belt around my neck, and she had it in a doorframe So I couldn’t move because I would choke myself for the total predicament bondage, and then she had mitts on my hand. So I had no use of my fingers. There were these big bulky knit things.

[00:25:22]  And I’m an achiever. If somebody gives me a task, I’m going to get that task done. And she was like, okay, your goal here is you have to get your bra off. And so I’m sitting in my bra, and I’ve got these mitts, and I’ve got this thing around my neck, which is attached to the door. So there’s no way I’m going to get my bra off. I was going to try.

[00:25:44] And so I’m there. I’m trying all these different things to try to get this thing off. And I can’t. And she’s like, what will you do for me to get this off? And I was like, I’ll sing. So I sing her the song, and she’s like, that was very pleasing to me. And all she does is she takes my bra strap, and she just lowers it here on my arm.

[00:26:09] And something inside me just went, and then I was out. I went into that expanded state of consciousness because she gave me a task that was unachievable and something in my psyche, my identity, was so tied in that that it everything in me let go at that moment.

[00:26:28] Dave: So some people hearing this are going, that’s weird. And just from a somatic therapy perspective and what all I know about it, there are lots of people who cannot surrender. They just do not know how to do it. And that’s not something you do with your mind. It’s something you do in your body. And when you’re put in a situation where you realize you’re safe because you can always stop it, but you can’t win.

[00:26:55] There’s no way. But you’re still trying. And just to face failure without knowing what’s going to happen, but to still feel safe, and then after all of that, to experience pleasure. What I see is happening is that you’re in a vulnerable state, but when your nervous system pairs vulnerability with a specific brain state that’s caused by orgasm and pleasure, it starts to go, well, maybe this fearful state wasn’t really necessary because it was paired with pleasure.

[00:27:23] So they start to come together. So you’re less fearful in all of your life because it reduced the severity of the fear because this thing might also come with something that feels good afterwards. And what that means is  it’s harder to trigger you, and you’re less afraid than before all the time, even potentially years later.

[00:27:44] So it can be really cathartic and healing. I’ve seen this firsthand. And yeah, that ability  to feel safe enough to let go, it’s actually really a sacred thing. I have a friend who’s, we’ll say, into psychedelics very, very well. And for this person, it was the first time they’d ever gone into subspace, and I was providing that service for them in a space with partners present and not actual sex at all. Let’s drop in.

[00:28:19] And yeah, after, it maybe took 10 minutes. This was also impacting a little bit of predicament, and all of a sudden, same exact thing. And it was, I feel like I took something. And it lasted for two weeks because imagine if you’ve just been stuck. And so I just look at this as, okay, you could go use psychedelics, but this is a path that’s actually more natural than taking a drug.

[00:28:49] Jaiya: Yeah. Because it’s your own endogenous chemicals. We have that pharmacy, and if we know how to tap into that pharmacy, and sometimes that’s on the edge of identity, on the edge of psyche, like what you’re talking about, where all of a sudden the dissonance. Just something breaks. And I mean break in a good way.

[00:29:06] Something lets go, something in that dissonance and the psyche when we start to move into these spaces, and the nervous system shifts, and then you come out of it, and you’re at a new baseline. Your fear is not what it was anymore because, all of a sudden, you’re not afraid of that thing because you just failed, but it was pleasurable, and it felt good.

[00:29:29] Dave:  If you want to be a good entrepreneur or good at relationships, learn to not fear failure. It just makes life so much better. And if this is your path, who’s going to judge that? And it’s part of a talk. I’ve been traveling around giving talks to very highly successful people, and it’s a talk about psychedelics. And the first talk is, here’s all the things you can do that aren’t psychedelics to put you in the same state.

[00:29:57] And there’s tantra, there’s conscious kink, there’s breathwork, there’s extended fasting. There’s all kinds of things, and there’s EMDR. And if none of that gets you there, then, okay, there’s an order of operations for psychedelics. But the idea that we’re just going to say, oh, I’m really successful, so I need to go to the most dangerous psychedelic, which is ayahuasca, probably. Maybe datura is worse, but no one knows about that one. But okay, there’s that. Or maybe you should just get a good spanking or find a lover who’s going to match your erotic blueprint and just launch you into outer space.

[00:30:36] Tell me about the erotic blueprints. How many are there? And just give me the one sentence overview in each.

[00:30:44] Jaiya: Yeah, there’s five erotic blueprints. The energetic is someone who’s turned on by anticipation, space, tease, longing, yearning, not having the thing.

[00:30:53] Dave: That’s energetic.

[00:30:54] Jaiya: Uh-huh. And the sensual is turned on by all of their senses being ignited. So that’s taste, touch, smell, closeness, eating something delicious. The sexual is what we think of as sex in our culture, penetration, nudity, orgasms. And then we go to the kinky, and the kinky is what we’ve been talking about. It’s the taboo. It’s impact. But it’s whatever’s taboo for you. So it’s that edge for you personally.

[00:31:21] Dave: Like kale? So for me, if someone tried to give me kale, it’d be so taboo.

[00:31:25] Jaiya: So taboo. It might blast you off into outer space.

[00:31:29] Dave: Date me with kale. I’ve been very bad.

[00:31:34] Jaiya: Oh. Now I know your secret. Now I know the way in. I’m just going to offer kale. Have an orgasm and eat kale at the same time, Dave, and rewire it.

[00:31:47] Dave: That’s just rude. Okay. We’re not going there. That’s a yellow. That’s a yellow.

[00:31:51] Jaiya: That’s a yellow. Okay.

[00:31:53] Dave: By the way guys, that’s safe word lingo most of the time. Red means we have to stop now. Yellow means I’m getting close to my edge. And you don’t really say it, but green means everything’s good.

[00:32:02] Jaiya: Green. Good to go. Good to go. And then there’s impact-oriented. So there’s psychological-oriented kink and impact-oriented kink. And then the final one’s a shapeshifter, and that’s someone who’s turned on by all of it. So it’s all the ones that I just talked about.

[00:32:17] And they really have the superpower of being multilingual, so they can speak all the different languages, great lovers. All of them have shadow sides, but the shadow side of the shapeshifter is that they shapeshift all the time to please other people, and so they’re not all the time, all the way fed.

[00:32:34] Dave: Got it. Spending a whole day with Kimi Inch, learning your content through one of your instructors was really remarkable because I’ve read your book. I’ve done my surveys. I’ve had you on stage. Familiar with your work. But just talking through it and really hearing other people’s stories about, oh my god, understanding that about myself lets me finally ask for what I want, was really meaningful, I would say.

[00:33:06] I think everyone who just got to go deep, it unlocks this idea that, wow, I never recognized that pattern in myself. Now that I know the pattern, I know the areas where I can likely mine to find the richness in my intimacy, and then I can ask my partner for it. And your partner is going to be totally clueless. How would you know otherwise?

[00:33:28] Jaiya: Right.

[00:33:28] Dave: You just stumble into it.

[00:33:30] Jaiya: Yeah. I think that it’s just like languages. We have this thing about sexual incompatibility, and I don’t think that we’re sexually incompatible. I don’t think that we’re mismatched. I think oftentimes we just don’t have enough information about sexuality because we don’t know the blueprints.

[00:33:45] On our quizzes, the majority of people with vulvas, people who identify as women, say that they are energetic and sensual. And the majority of people with cocks say that they are mostly shapeshifters, which was surprising, I think, to a lot of people because a lot of people think sexuals would be what most men would identify as, but they’re really across the board.

[00:34:13] And so we’ve got these whole areas of our sexuality, especially with energetics, the majority of people have not even started to explore there, or kinky, that we’re not learning it. So it’s like sets of languages that we don’t know how to speak. And oftentimes the pairing I see most is an energetic with a sexual. And I think that’s just because they come to me because they’re really struggling. But that pairing, it seems like they’re on two very, very different planets.

[00:34:45] Dave: Are you up for talking about your own unique pairing? I know we talked about on stage, but part of your work in coming up with the erotic blueprint breakthrough is that– by the way, I didn’t mention that you were on Netflix’s series Sex, Love and Goop, which is cool.

[00:35:00] So I could have mentioned that during the intro, but that whole situation with erotic blueprints, you came across this in your own relationship. Tell me the story there of how you discovered this and then what you did about it.

[00:35:16] Jaiya: So my partner Ian and I, we were about three, four years into our relationship, and we started really struggling. Our son was born. Anybody who has a new baby can attest to that whole time in life.

[00:35:29] Dave: The death of sex in most relationships a year or two. Yeah.

[00:35:33] Jaiya: Yeah. But I was still very much sexually alive, but he really had a crash, and then we just were really struggling. And we got to the point where I’d come to bed at night, and I’d initiate and my way of initiating sex was touching his genitals and saying, do you want to have sex tonight? And his way of initiating sex was cuddling, and I’d roll my eyes, like, oh god, he’s cuddling again.

[00:35:54] Dave: There’s no woman ever except for Ms. Jaiya, right?

[00:35:59] Jaiya: And he’d be like, you’re so obvious. I was taking striptease class to try to– like I’m in my G string doing the cat pounces, and he’s like, oh my God, you’re so obvious. And so I didn’t get– this was before I really had this languaging. And so I’m rolling over and crying myself to sleep at night because I’m like the sex goddess.

[00:36:21] I’m like the sex expert. I can’t get my own partner to have sex with me. What is wrong? And come to find out that when we take the test, he’s zero sensual. I’m zero kinky. He’s highest in kinky. I’m highest in sensual, very close to energetic.

[00:36:40] Dave: That’s a pretty rough combination, right?

[00:36:43] Jaiya: We’re complete opposites in the testing, completely. I was 5% sensual, and he’s kinky sensual. I’m sensual energetic. He’s zero sensual and 5% energetic. So we’re literally flipped. And what’s beautiful about it is, okay, so we’re flipped. So now what? Well, I go learn kink. I go learn how to speak his language because he’s primarily kinky.

[00:37:09] So let me go take classes. That’s why my butt was black and blue for two weeks, is because I was trying to learn all the things. I took all these classes, just learning from experts and going out and getting coached. And then what started to happen was then I would find things in the area of kink that actually did turn me on.

[00:37:29] And so now we’re finding our bridges. If there’s a Venn diagram, we’re finding the things in the center. And then with energetic, he went and did a whole bunch of stuff just to expand himself energetically, even though he didn’t believe in it. He was like, I’m just going to keep saying yes. I’m just going to keep feeling.

[00:37:45] Dave: What’s an example of how you expand yourself energetically?

[00:37:48] Jaiya: The thing that really worked from him was network spinal.

[00:37:52] Dave: Oh yeah, I do a lot of that. John Amaral and Mark Umbra.

[00:37:56] Jaiya: Yeah, yeah. John and Christina. He went and worked with John and Christina. We did a weekend with them.

[00:38:01] Dave: But it was John Amaral who introduced me to your work years ago. Yeah.

[00:38:06] Jaiya: Yeah. So we love them and that workshop. He just went for Ian. And by the end of it, Ian could see the field. He could see energetic threads. And then I was so happy because now he can just see the energy and knows how to like, okay, if I go here, her clitoris is going to sing. And if I go here, her chest is going to lift. And there’s these orgasmic postures. And so people, when they watch Sex, Love & Goop, you can see some of that.

[00:38:32] Dave: Can he do this without touching you, just above you?

[00:38:35] Jaiya: Yeah. All of the above.

[00:38:36] Dave: Not just John, right?

[00:38:38] Jaiya: Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:39] Dave: Yeah. So there’s people listening going, that’s not possible. Guys, it is possible. I’ve seen John do it lots of times. You’ve experienced it. I learned how to do it. So when you’re connected with someone and they feel safe and you feel safe, you can do stuff if you know how to manipulate your field, and it’s remarkable. So I love it that that came into this.

[00:38:58] Jaiya: Yeah. And the thing that’s evolved over time is that Ian then was like, I want Jaiya to beg for sex. And me begging for sex was not a thing, but it turned his kinky on. And so he would use that. He would play in my field and just keep playing in my field until I’m begging, like please touch me. And so he’s used it as a kinky way to keep playing with me. And then it evolved even more to now he’s developing this listening in the field. So it’s no longer this manipulation of my field. It’s this like, oh, if I listen and just go right there, then the ripples of ecstasy will just move through my body. Yeah.

[00:39:45] Dave: Wow. So that’s an advanced practice for a relationship. Do you think you’re going to get bored of it?

[00:39:51] Jaiya: Not at all.

[00:39:53] Dave: Not at all.

[00:39:54] Jaiya: This is the thing. I set out when I was really young teenager, and I said, I want to just know everything that’s erotically possible. I’m going to spend my lifetime discovering everything that is erotically possible. And I have not found the end to that discovery. I think I’m like, it can’t get better than that. It cannot go any higher than that. I can’t go any further than that. And then I have another thing that takes me into a new place I’ve never been before. So there’s no end.

[00:40:27] Dave: It feels like any spiritual path. You think, I’m almost there, and that was just a foothill. And again, oh, there’s another one. And that’s okay, and that’s also why you have these sine waves over time. You have a baby, and maybe things slow down for a little bit, and then they come back, and then you find new levels, and it is a lifelong path.

[00:40:47] And when you see those interviews with really, really old people, they’re in their 70s and 80s, and they just can’t keep their hands off each other. I bet you they had a much better than average life. They’ve got this going for 60 years, some of them. And so it is possible. How many times when people come to you, whether it’s in your online classes or the speaking events, how many people are in frustrated situations in their love life where they’re just they’re not fulfilled? Is this almost everyone?

[00:41:20] Jaiya: It’s almost everyone. It’s something that saddens me in our world because I find that couples like to play a game. They like to play a game of suffering. And it’s really interesting to see like, oh, here’s their game. Here’s their thing that they’re playing. Here’s the thing that they keep looping on over and over and over again, unconsciously.

[00:41:44] Sometimes there’s an existential kink. They just love that game, and they want to keep playing that game over and over again. But I love to ask the question of like– I really challenge people of– do you want to keep playing this? Because you’re going to keep getting the same result over and over and over again.

[00:41:59] And you’re not really spiraling out of it. You’re just looping in this thing. And part of it is lack of sex education. Part of it is the unconscious loop that we get into in relationships, the thing that we’re maybe here to learn or break through. Part of it is just we forgot how to love each other.

[00:42:21] Dave: Tell me more about that. How does that work?

[00:42:25] Jaiya: I think that as just humanity, we’ve lost what it is to really love and care for each other. We can say, I love you, but are we really listening for what the other person needs in order to have them feel loved? I think that’s a different question. Am I here to help you feel loved? Because I can love you, but it doesn’t mean anything if you don’t feel that.

[00:42:49] And then what is it to just be with another person in whatever is coming up for them without trying to change, fix, or improve them? And then the unconditional love to me is when you love you, then you get it, then the other people in your life get it.

[00:43:06] But if you’re constantly trapped in your own soup of not loving yourself, then it’s really hard to love other people because of the things that are going on internally.

[00:43:17] Dave: I can’t believe you’d pick on vegans like that, just calling out not loving itself. Oh yeah, that was so judgy of you. By the way, that’s one of my love languages, is putting words in other people’s mouths. So there you go. That must be my erotic blueprint.

[00:43:34] Jaiya: Then you must love me. I’m so honored.

[00:43:40] Dave: All kidding aside, it’s easy to say I love you. My understanding of that after all the spiritual stuff I’ve done over the last 25 years, you say it with your eyes, and you say it with your heart, and sometimes with touch, but you don’t have to. It depends on the nature of the love in the person.

[00:44:02] You can put your hand on their shoulder or their partner, you hug them, but it’s mostly a thing you generate in your field, as far as I understand. Love is a heart thing, and they feel it, and then they see it.  The words don’t even matter. You can say I love you just with the look.

[00:44:17] Heck, I have some friends. I can send them loving thoughts, and they’ll text me, and they know I did it. That’s cool. That’s how the world works. And by the way, these are friends, not lovers I’m talking about, just friends. When you really love in a certain way, it is feelable, at least by some people. Does that match what you’ve seen?

[00:44:34] Jaiya: Yeah, 100%. Part of my daily practice is to send love through the field, especially to the people who I find challenging. And it’s like, okay, really, truly unconditional love. That means for all beings on this planet. Okay, today my practice is Putin. Today, I’m going to send unconditional love through the field to that human, regardless of the human’s behaviors. Not saying that the human’s behaviors are okay.

[00:45:08]  But yet I can still practice keeping my heart open and loving that challenging person or that challenging situation. I also do anything that’s challenging in my own life. I have a dear friend right now who’s dying of stage 4 cancer.

[00:45:22] And every day I just think about all the caretakers for people who are losing a loved one, and I send love through the field and relief through the field because then that helps me just connect with all the other human beings on that planet who are dealing with a similar thing and not feel so alone, but also to feel like, yeah, I can just send love and relief right through the field to them and for all of us who are caring for a loved one who’s ill.

[00:45:52] Dave: What would you say if someone heard that and said, that’s not possible, therefore you’re deceiving yourself?

[00:46:01] Jaiya: I’d say, well, if you believe it’s not possible, then it becomes not possible for you.  And it’s a very real reality for all of us who do experience that. And even if it’s not possible, does it feel good? Does it still feel good to love other people and pretend that you’re sending love through the field? Does that feel good? Great. Even if you don’t believe it–

[00:46:28] Dave: That’s the best answer. There are a meaningful number of people, including people who listen to the show, who sit on the spectrum– and I joke about it. One end is, we are meat robots, and everything is mechanistic. And then the other side is, we are all energy. And if you’re too meat robotic, there is no such thing as love, and you’re like Spock and Commander Data.

[00:46:52] And then on the other side of this, you’re like, the yoga teacher can’t be on time to their own classes because we’re all in it together. And you don’t have food. So you can go either direction too far. The biggest issue is, if you want to sit on the meat robot side of things, you’re going to be rational.

[00:47:11] And that means the most rational thing to do is to use the placebo effect of love that you believe cannot be real, yet you know the placebo effect is real, because it is provably better for you to do these practices whether or not you believe they work.

[00:47:28] Furthermore, for you meat robots, who I very much appreciate because I once had that view of reality, choosing to believe in reincarnation is also the most effective way to pursue your life. Whether or not it’s real doesn’t matter. And the reason for that is that if you’re wrong, you won’t know it.

[00:47:51] But believing in it lets you lead a life of less fear. Hey, it’s like a video game. I get to start it over again when I’m done. And it doesn’t matter if it’s real. I would say it probably is real, given all the stuff I’ve experienced. But it’s truly relevant. So if you are a hardcore rationalist, I challenge you. Live a life where you are happy, and you will find you walk around sending love and gratitude into the field, whether or not the field exists, whether or not you’re self-deceiving yourself.

[00:48:19] And you’re going to believe that you get to come back and do it again. Why? Because you lead a better life, even if it’s just a one time through. And that means you also should find your erotic blueprint and probably try all of it. Because you’ll need that in a future life. And if this is your only life, you might as well have a lot of fun. Just saying.

[00:48:37] Jaiya: And why not make it more pleasurable?

[00:48:40] Dave: It’s not like pleasure is a problem. How many people actually think it is a problem?

[00:48:46] Jaiya: Oh, huge amounts of people think it’s a problem. We’ve been taught. The religion taught us, don’t have pleasure. We have a run, run, run, run, run culture. Don’t be in pleasure. So I think that pleasure, for a lot of people, it’s the P word. You know what? I got in trouble for using the word pleasure and got completely shut down. Our entire business shut down for using the word pleasure. We got completely censored because we put pleasure in the subject of one of our emails, and our whole business crashed because of using the word pleasure.

[00:49:18] Dave: Who would shut you down for that? Google?

[00:49:20] Jaiya: Oh, it was email service providers. And then they threatened our email service provider or if we did business. It was a whole giant thing. And so, we have a taboo. We have a taboo about pleasure, which also leads me to states of consciousness. You were talking about people who are really rational. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Ken Wilber’s work.

[00:49:42] Dave: Oh, absolutely. He’s been on the show. Yeah.

[00:49:44] Jaiya: I love him. And I’ve really put like a model too with the blueprints– like the stages of development. When he talks about the stages of development with the colors based on spiral dynamics, some of that. For people who don’t know, rational thinking is a very orange. They say it’s orange thinking or sometimes blue with a lot of rules.

[00:50:05] And so I think about also sexuality the same way, that the blueprints are our stages of development. And then we have states of consciousness at the top. And these are our states and stages that we go into. And I think of sexual enlightenment, similar to Ken Wilber, where it’s like, when we have unified states and stages, then we have sexual awakening or sexual enlightenment.

[00:50:30] But when it comes to sexuality, if you’re super, super rational, and then you have a partner who is an energetic, that would be like a sensual who’s just like, it’s the meat and potato. Sex is this, this, this, this, this. Hump, hump, hump, orgasm. We’re all good. And then you get an energetic who goes into these transformational states.

[00:50:55] Then if you’re having this mismatch, we have to start to just open up if we can. And again, who cares if it’s real or not? My partner, Ian, who thought it was all BS, he’s like, I’m just going to keep saying yes. I’m just going to keep saying yes. Until eventually he did feel it.

[00:51:11] Dave: That sounds like a very rationalist approach. Hmm. There’s a lot of people who keep saying that they’re doing something that I don’t see and I don’t know how to do. I could decide that they’re all crazy, but since a lot of people say that’s real, maybe I could learn that, and then you become curious instead of fearful that your picture of reality is maybe not complete. So I’m sure there’s things that I’m learning and that you’re learning to this day and I expect to be doing that for a very long time.

[00:51:39] Jaiya: That’s mastery. Mastery is when you realize you’ll never stop learning, and I’ll never stop learning about sexuality. I’ll never stop exploring human consciousness and the tie between these things, all these different paths that take us into these realms unknown.

[00:51:56] Dave: After your experience in Paris, can you just induce an orgasm anytime you want?

[00:52:02] Jaiya: I had that ability before Paris.

[00:52:04] Dave: Yeah.

[00:52:06] Jaiya: I came into this lifetime.

[00:52:08] Dave: Oh, speaking of this whole–

[00:52:10] Jaiya: Reincarnation.

[00:52:12] Dave: From a past life or something.

[00:52:13] Jaiya: Yeah.

[00:52:14] Dave: I got you on that.

[00:52:15] Jaiya: Yeah. My first, really where that came from was I was in college in my 20s, and I started to be able to just think about it and then contract my pelvic floor. I would just think about something really like exciting to me. It was usually something energetic that I couldn’t have, and then I would just contract and relax my pelvic floor, and then I would send myself into an orgasmic wave moving through my whole body. And then I had a really big experience with a gay man, which is a very interesting story.

[00:52:50] He kissed my toe, and it just shot Kundalini through my body. And we went into holding each other and just weeping, and this whole thing unfolded where we just became one, and we still to this day are just like, that was one of the most amazing highlights of our lives. And ever since then, I’ve been really, really easily orgasmic.

[00:53:11] Dave: Wow, it’s one of those things people probably don’t talk about that much. Yeah, years ago, at Burning Man, a friend just did something above my head, and every 15 minutes that whole night, I’m just riding my bike around twitching, and I’m like, okay, guys, you just have to deal with whatever’s going on right now.

[00:53:31] It’s not unpleasant, but I’m not dying. I’m not having a seizure. And I’m talking non ejaculatory stuff, but just like this energetic stuff. And I have no idea what got unblocked or anything. So yeah, since then it’s gotten more and more to the point– and I haven’t talked about this on the show– but yeah, I can pretty much– drop of a hat, it’s one or two breaths, and I will experience a whole body orgasm.

[00:53:55] And it’s just a thing that you can snap your fingers and do that. And I’m sure a lot of people are going, this isn’t even possible. No, if you’re bored in a meeting and you can do that, meetings are not boring anymore.

[00:54:07] Jaiya: So more fun. Can it be more pleasurable? 100%. I just had a few orgasms while we’ve been sitting here talking.

[00:54:14] Dave: I’m not confirming or denying although I did feel it.

[00:54:16] Jaiya: Yeah. So one of the things that I also learned, this reminds me of one of my mentors. His name is Kenneth Ray Stubbs. He actually just passed away this past week.

[00:54:30] Dave: And this is Ray Simms, was it?

[00:54:31] Jaiya: Kenneth Ray Stubbs.

[00:54:33] Dave: Stubbs. Okay. Got

[00:54:34] Jaiya: He just passed away this last week, but he was in a wheelchair, and he and I would just sit across from each other, and we would do this thing where he was like, let’s see if we can play with energy and see if we can start to become orgasmic. And we started doing that, and it started developing a muscle just like lifting weights at the gym. It just started to develop a muscle.

[00:55:00] And because he was paralyzed, it was such an interesting experiment because we could then inspire orgasm each other. And then I was like, okay, let’s now try this at home where we’re not sitting in front of each other. And I’d wake up at 4:00 in the morning having an orgasm, and I’d be like, Ray.

[00:55:14] Dave: Yeah.

[00:55:14] Jaiya: And bless him. He taught me so much.

[00:55:19] Dave: I am so happy that you’re talking about that because that’s absolutely real. I have noticed that that thing, which probably starts out with the network spinal, it is not constrained by distance at all. So anywhere on the planet, if you have a connection with someone and their consent, that’s possible.

[00:55:45] Yeah. And so I don’t think you’ll hear that on most podcasts, and I’m definitely dropping some personal info there, but it’s a thing, and it is possible. And if you’re listening to this going, did they just say that you can give someone else an orgasm from across the planet? Yeah, actually you can.

[00:56:05] And it takes a lot of work to get there, or maybe it just takes one day of really good work. I don’t know. Maybe I just took the long path. I don’t know how to put words to it. I don’t know how to explain it, but I know that I can do it, and I’ll get a text message. And that’s a pretty good sign if the other person wakes up at 4:00 in the morning, the way you’re describing.

[00:56:26] And it’s a very advanced energetic skill, and it’s not one that I sought out to develop at all. It’s one that emerged. And this is really important for people who are on a spiritual path. That would be one of the yogic siddhis, which Joe Dispenza, who’s been on the show a couple of times, he talks about in his book and many others in books about that.

[00:56:48] These are energetic abilities that are well documented for some people to develop on their way to developing more consciousness. But if you seek out the siddhis as goals, they just become shiny distractions on the path. So you’re like, oh, look what just happened. That’s interesting. But it’s not why you did it.

[00:57:05] And so my advice for people who are new to any of these practices, do your erotic blueprint quiz. Learn something about yourself, learn something about your partner or partners, whatever kind of relationship you’re in. Ask new dates to do it. Trust me, they’ll like it. And then you’ll say, okay, let me just be curious, and let me just see what unfolds.

[00:57:28] But don’t be goal directed in this stuff other than experiencing pleasure and bringing it to your partner, and then stuff happens the way it’s supposed to. If you decide I’m going to remote control orgasm the world, you probably won’t. Does that match your experience?

[00:57:46] Jaiya: Absolutely, 100%. It’s like as soon as you start to chase those siddhis or powers, it will elude you, and again, distraction on the path. But they come naturally if you surrender, if you allow, if you do the practices.

[00:58:00] Dave: Did you just say they come naturally?

[00:58:03] Jaiya: Mm-hmm.

[00:58:04] Dave: Just, checking. Okay. Keep going.

[00:58:06] Jaiya: Because we all want everybody to come naturally.

[00:58:09] Dave: We got past the AI censorship. Awesome.

[00:58:12] Jaiya: Did we? Did we? I love that. I love when we can be tricky that way.

[00:58:19] Dave: That’s so funny. All right. Now I’m getting a question from the Upgrade Collective. And by the way, guys, I don’t talk about the Upgrade Collective often enough on here. This is my mentorship group. And you can go to ourupgradecollective.com. And then they tune in and are in the live audience, and they’re actually typing questions and talking to each other over a chat for this. And one of them, Chari says, who was your teacher? You mentioned one of them. Is there another teacher that’s worth calling out?

[00:58:53] Jaiya: Absolutely. So Kenneth Ray Stubbs was one of the people who taught me a lot about energetic sexuality, and erotic massage, and many, many things in life. And then another mentor of mine was Joe Kramer, Joseph Kramer, and he created Body Electric and also Sexological Bodywork. He had a really big impact on me and my career and why I do what I do today.

[00:59:20] And then when it came to spirituality, most recently I’ve been mentoring with someone named Sachin Raja. And he has something called transcendent CEO, which is people who are entrepreneurs who are also spiritually aligned and doing these kinds of practices. And he has had many years in Tantra as well.

[00:59:43] And one of the reasons why I hired him, because I’ve been having these big ecstatic experiences even before Paris, and I was going into what he calls a lot of glow, which is– you talked about the yoga teacher who can’t be on time. You start to lose like life function when you start to lose identity.

[01:00:03] And I hired him because he had this model of glow, flow, and function. And glow is, of course, that Samadhi state. It’s that spiritual awakened state. Then you’ve got flow, which is our practices, doing yoga, doing our daily practices. And then function is okay, I can still get on a podcast and talk to you, Dave. I still have an ability to function.

[01:00:27] Dave: You could be dysfunctional. If I go into these really altered states, I’m going to be muscularly contracting and making little gasping sounds that would not be appropriate for a board game, right?

[01:00:41] Jaiya: Absolutely. And so because I was in so much glow, I just didn’t care about anything. Fortunately, my business was still thriving. Fortunately, life was still going. I have people around me who are really amazing to help take care of things that are in the function realm, but I really wanted to master all three so that I had balance and not just all glow, but have my daily practices still, which I didn’t care about at that time.

[01:01:14] Because it’s like, well, why do a daily practice? It’s all this. And then also the function part, which I still delegate a lot, but that was really important to me, to ground it all back into body and ground all of this ecstasy back here.

[01:01:33] Dave: And those are some Raja helped you with. I’ve come to know a great number of CEOs, particularly of mission-driven companies. And because they come to 40 Years of Zen for neurofeedback, or I’m working with them in the Apollo group with Vishen Lakhiani and Naveen Jain, really big mentorship group. And you find a common thread where they’re on a path of creation.

[01:02:00] And I think they’re attracted to this kind of work because our erotic energy is creation energy. And whether you’re a man or a woman, there’s different masculine feminine dynamics around creation. But if you’re going to build something really big and you don’t have any creation energy and you’re not nourishing your creation energy, it’s like pushing a rock uphill, I guess.

[01:02:25] It’s not rewarding. It’s really hard. And when you just realize there’s some little twist in how you manage your own self, it feels like the business world becomes more fulfilling at worst and at best case. And more likely case, it becomes more successful too.

[01:02:41] So the really big dogs are either stumbling into this or consciously doing it because they’re realizing they need to, or because they heard it from a friend. I’m a little concerned that a lot of them are falling for the ayahuasca is going to get me there. And I think, even though I’ve done it a couple of times– I did it in 1999 when it wasn’t a tourist industry with a real shaman, and I’ve seen a lot of harm come from that. What’s your take on the risk of psychedelics for people who are looking for that creation energy?

[01:03:17] Jaiya: I think we can get lost in the tool.

[01:03:20] Dave: Yeah.

[01:03:20] Jaiya: One of my favorite quotes is Alan Watts. He’s like, I looked in the microscope. I saw the thing. And I’m not quoting directly. I looked at the microscope. I saw the thing. And then you mistake the microscope for the thing, or the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon.

[01:03:37] And I think so many people get trapped in the tool as the thing, and they keep returning to the tool without integrating fully or embodying fully what the tool has shown them or given them. So one of the ways that I talk with my clients, because I also work with a lot of entrepreneurs who are very excited about all of these things. And 100% sexuality and sexual energy fuel.

[01:04:04] It is fuel for your creativity. It is fuel for your life force. It is like throwing gasoline on a fire if you really know how to transmute and how to utilize that energy effectively. I love Think and Grow Rich Chapter 11. He talks about creating awakened genius in the brain through transmutation of sexual energy.

[01:04:26] And so I think a lot of people missed that chapter. I was like, Chapter 11. So there’s that aspect. And then there’s the aspect of, again, all the endogenous chemicals are in our bodies. And if the tool keeps telling you the same thing over and over again, it means you haven’t integrated.

[01:04:44] So if you go to Ayahuasca and she tells you the same thing again, you see the same thing again, she’s just going to keep saying the same thing. And so you go and you integrate those things and take a break from the tool for a while.

[01:05:00] Dave: Yeah.

[01:05:00] Jaiya: So don’t let the tool use you.

[01:05:02] Dave: Man, you said it just right. Don’t let the tool use you. And I feel bad. Probably the biggest name known for this is Aubrey Marcus, like 87 times. When are you going to know it’s not working and you got to do the other work? I feel like we’re not treating those tools with respect.

[01:05:22] We’re also not treating sensuality and erotic energy with respect either. But erotic energy won’t get mad at you and punch you in the face. As someone who’s done initiatory shamanic training, ayahuasca will punch you in the face if you’re not respectful. It has a consciousness behind And so maybe more caution and respect is warranted in that space than people are offering it at this point.

[01:05:48] So I would just be very cautious with that and the integration. Because you’re in an altered state, you forget 90% of it, but your ego remembers everything. So you get stronger and stronger ego responses that are more and more invisible. You remember everything that happens to you in the bedroom because you’re not on drugs except the ones your body made, and your partner is there with you, and you talk about it afterwards at least if you have good aftercare.

[01:06:12] And thou, you get all the benefits of whatever journey you took. And that feels more pure. It doesn’t create any neurological weirdness. So I’m not opposed to going to the jungle and finding someone who’s really qualified because they spent a decade with a tribe learning the intricacies and the dangers of a medicine, fine. But if you’re going to do 87 times, man, I think some darkness will enter from something like that. And that leads to the next question though, Jaiya. When people are in these ecstatic altered states, what’s the spiritual risk? Does it have the same risk as psychedelics?

[01:07:01] People talk about some of the more esoteric stuff. You just said you can have remote control orgasms just with someone’s mind. So what’s the dark side of that? Can you use that for not good? Are there, I don’t know, ghosts that jump into you when you’re in the height of orgasm? Tell me the weird spiritual stuff that you wouldn’t really talk about.

[01:07:23] Jaiya: I think one place to start, and then I’ll get to the weird stuff is, how are you consciously utilizing any tool, sex, psychedelics, breathwork? Is it recreational or recreational? And this was something that I learned from my shamonic teacher. He’s like, we’ve taken all these things that are recreational– music, dance, sex, psychedelics, and we’ve made them recreational.

[01:07:53] And in that is an inherent danger. That’s where they bite you. Because, like you said, these are things to be respected in a sacred container. And so, yeah, I have very interesting stories of very interesting things, just Aghora Tantra. If you get into some of that, those teachings, I’m reading Aghora right now, actually, a book about it.

[01:08:18] And this is a three-part series about it. And they talk about because they do this fast path, and they go to the cemetery, and they do their sadhana, their practice in the cemetery or in the creation ground. And there are all kinds of spirits flying around. And so they talk about the dangers inherent of like, you don’t want to– some really wild stories.

[01:08:46] So if you’re interested in those wild stories. Now, personally, I have seen things where people go into really ecstatic state and start speaking in tongues, entity entering type things during really heightened states where all of a sudden somebody is there who isn’t the person embodying inside.

[01:09:11] Dance where a deity comes in, and all of a sudden they’re doing dance and things that they’ve never been able, like mudras at hand. These are people who’ve never done any kind of study of mudras or India and dance or anything and all of a sudden they’re able to do dance. After Paris I could read Sanskrit which I’ve never ever– and write it.

[01:09:34] It went away but I was just like, what? So there’s languages sometimes people will be able to speak that they couldn’t speak before. Yes, there are things like that can happen. They’re infrequent. I wouldn’t say this is all the time, and I wouldn’t say, hey, don’t be afraid to like, go into these expanded states, but be conscious that you can have spiritual boundaries as well. Like, hey, nobody gets to come into my body and field while I’m this open.

[01:10:08] Dave: Yeah, and that’s something you either hire a shaman for or another energy worker who’s skilled, or you learn the skills yourself. If I’m exposed to stuff like that, I have people I work with, and I have for many years, to help keep my field clean. And you ask me, Dave, what are you talking about? I don’t mess around.

[01:10:27] I’m a computer hacker. There are things that you can’t see. If you don’t believe me, get a radar detector and drive around and see how often it beeps. You can’t see it, but it’s there. So there are lots of things you can’t see, and that’s just a part of reality and the fact that a lot of people for thousands of years have been describing the same things means maybe sometimes they’re there and you should probably be a little cautious even though you may not ever run into something.

[01:10:52] Jaiya: Yeah, it’s why in the Tantric Methuna, they draw a sand circle. Let’s protect ourselves energetically as we’re going into embodying Shiva and Shakti and going into cosmic union. I’m like, let’s do all the things.

[01:11:08] Dave: I love it. You’re just so cool. When I did Ayahuasca in 1999, I was very new to this and I went down to Peru, and I said, I want to try this. And they looked at me. They said, you’re white. Yeah, I know. It’s for locals only. You’ll throw up. You won’t like it. I said, no, I’ve done my work.

[01:11:27] I know what I’m looking for. And I found, thankfully, the right shaman and exactly that. He put a stone circle around us, and I didn’t even notice. And so I finished a little early because I tend to have a resilient system that can handle a lot. So I said, I’m going to go for a hike. And he’s like, no. And he almost tackled me. I said, look, I’m fine. I can touch my nose.

[01:11:47] Things a little altered, but I just want to go for a walk. He said, you don’t understand. That stone circle isn’t to keep you in, it’s to keep the other things out. And if you go out there, I’m going to have to clean you up, and it’s a lot of work. I’m like. I’m just going to take him seriously this time because I think that’s all nonsense at the time I did. And I just am grateful I was with someone who knew what they were doing. So the same could be true of sex, especially if you’re hanging around graveyards and things.

[01:12:15] Guys, I didn’t believe any of this when I was young. I was raised mostly atheist/agnostic. I just study things with direct experience with masters all over the planet. And you should practice caution around these open states, including sex. If you’re super open, you can just say an intention ahead of time or work with an energy worker.

[01:12:36] And if you’re going to go in and edit your own settings, which is what I believe you were doing with psychedelics, Tantra, any of the altered states work is changing your body’s way of viewing reality. It’s like getting in and seeing the world the way your body does instead of the way your little mind does.

[01:12:51] And yeah, you should have some caution and some protections in place. And that includes sex, but I just feel like intimacy is way less risky than propping the door open with a psychedelic, even though, I’ve been talking about psychedelics since first five shows 10 plus years ago and 400 million downloads later, still talking about them.

[01:13:13] So I’m a fan, but I’m a conscious fan, not a recreational. I’m on the recreational side, as I know you are. Okay, wow, I love it that you went there. I don’t know that I would want to meditate in a graveyard. You’re going to the deep places with Aghora. It’s pronounced Aghora, but it’s spelled Aghori. Is that just the Sanskrit thing?

[01:13:39] Jaiya: I’m not sure. I think an Aghori is somebody who practices it, isn’t it? And an Aghora–

[01:13:45] Dave: Oh, I wouldn’t know.

[01:13:45] Jaiya: Form of Tantra.

[01:13:46] Dave: I was just looking it up. Yeah, the only surviving sect from the Kapalika tradition, like 8th century Indian. It’s reminded me of Daniel P. Brown, the hypnotism and detachment theory professor from Harvard was on the show a while ago. He said, oh yeah, in my spare time, I translate 13th century Sanskrit cave meditation instructions and put them on Amazon.

[01:14:17] I’m like, are you kidding me? This is a Harvard guy. Yeah, that’s what they do. So there’s all this ancient knowledge that was really esoteric, but it’s all out there. And so it’s funny you’re studying an eighth century form, which is even older than that. But it says here, the Aghori practice post mortem cannibalism.

[01:14:42] Jaiya: Yeah. It’s all of the taboos.

[01:14:45] Dave: What?

[01:14:46] Jaiya: So it’s super interesting. It’s like they go with what is most taboo. And so whatever we’ve made taboo is what becomes part of the practice. And so it gets associated with all kinds of really interesting things like cannibalism, and urine, and feces, and we’re going to the really taboo aspects. They eat out of skulls they find in the graveyard, and it might have little bits of brain in it still. This is what they’re talking about in the–

[01:15:17] Dave: But you’re not practicing those things. This is the ancient lineage.

[01:15:22] Jaiya: No, it’s not something I’m really interested in. To me, it’s fascinating. I love the stories. I love like the philosophies behind some of it. You could utilize it as visualization. No, I’m not ready to go to India and do ceremony on top of the crematoriums and eating my breakfast out of a skull that’s fresh that might still have bits of brain in it. But I love the stories, and I find it absolutely fascinating.

[01:16:00] Dave: I want to be really clear here too. Some people would hear that and go, that is absolutely satanic. And there are satanic sects out there. I’ve come across, not sex, S-E-C-T-S out there. I’ve come across them. This is not that. These guys were about making the things that were the most repulsive, so this is a polarity play. It’s like the most repulsive, most horrifying, most never, and then saying even those, I am not going to allow that to trigger me.

[01:16:34] So they were figuring out, how do I sit in my space, that space where nothing on earth can take me out of it, even that? So this was just the practice of presence versus a practice of worshiping bad things, and satanic, and all that kind of stuff, just a different thing to be like, I am able to hold my space no matter what’s happening in the world.

[01:17:00] Jaiya: Mm-hmm. And I’m taking the darkness in the world and transmuting it into light. That’s a big part of the practice, is how do I take the suffering in the world? How do I take death? How do I face this thing that nobody wants to talk about or look at and actually transmute it into unconditional love, transmute it into the light?

[01:17:18] And that’s what I love about it. Look at our world right now. We have so much that is going on in the world that’s amazing and beautiful, and we have so much polarization of the opposite. War, and death, and darkness, sickness. And can we sit with that? Hold it. That’s what the tantric is.

[01:17:36] It’s like, I’m going to hold the meat, because meat was so taboo. I’m going to sit here. I’m going to hold the meat. And in the Tantric Maithuna, they have the five forbiddens. It’s meat, fish, wheat, wine, and sex. And those were the five forbiddens. And so–

[01:17:54] Dave: Hold on. How are supposed to have good sex without meat? That’s ridiculous. You wouldn’t have enough energy.

[01:17:59] Jaiya: And so this idea of like, can I hold this thing that’s so taboo? Can I be with it? Can I transmute it? Can I utilize this? Yes, this too. Even this. And I think that that’s a lesson for us in terms of even our own aspects of ourselves that we push away. No, I’m not allowed to be angry. No, I’m not allowed to feel sad. No, I’m not allowed to be in this grief right now. Or I’m not allowed to be agitated or anxious, as opposed to go, well, let me sit with that. That’s the practice, even though they’re talking about these 8th century things that were really, really sitting with the taboo, but it’s like, how about this the practice of sitting with your anger and your rage? That’s the meat. That’s the skull cap that you’re eating out of.

[01:18:48] Dave: It’s learning to sit in a state of reverence no matter what’s happening. And sometimes I think if you take it back to the bedroom, if your partner wants whatever the heck they want, okay, I am going to hold space for that and have a reverence for that because it’s doing something, even if, that’s just weird.

[01:19:07] It’s okay. People are pretty weird. But look at the benefits of it. It’s that state of non-judgment where it doesn’t matter what’s happening. You are where you are, and that leads directly to success in business and success in life because you get to choose your state, no matter what’s happening.

[01:19:26] And funny, the definition of biohacking, change the environment around you and inside of you so you have full control of your own biology, which includes its state. That’s why meditation and that’s why erotic blueprints, and I’m willing to talk about conscious kink and Tantra, and yes, you just brought up urine therapy. Not something that I’m a huge fan of. Did I try it years ago when I read a book about it? Yeah. I’d rather drink coffee.

[01:19:53] Thank you very much. But look, I don’t. I’m non-judgemental, man. I’ll try anything that’s going to make me live longer, feel better, have more energy. Those are precious. So I think your work stands out as foundational. I think it’s as important as the love language work. It’s one thing to know how someone experienced love because you gave them a gift or gave them a hug. And that’s okay.

[01:20:16] But if that same person is your partner and you can let them feel loved because you bought them a present, and then you get into the bedroom, and you’re, in your case, just trying to nail him, and he is like, I just need a spanking, then why don’t you learn that too?

[01:20:30] Because sex and love can come together. They don’t always, but knowing the playing field, just having a map and saying, where on the map am I? I think you’ve done that. You’ve come up with something I’ve never seen before, and it’s super cool. So thank you Jaiya, for your cool work. And it’s eroticbreakthrough.com or breakthroughs.com. With an S or no S?

[01:20:50] Jaiya: blueprintbreakthrough.com.

[01:20:53] Dave: Your new book is called Your Blueprint for Pleasure: Discover the 5 Erotic Types to Awaken—and Fulfill—Your Desires. Kind of a mouthful, so I’m just going to say Your Blueprint for Pleasure. And people can get it anywhere books are sold, or is it only on your website?

[01:21:11] Jaiya: Anywhere books are sold.

[01:21:13] Dave: Okay, so guys, probably if you could go to that big evil bookseller in the sky, or you could go to an indie bookstore, which is totally cool, or another large chain– bookstores really, really matter. The reason is that it’s hard to reverse sensor printed materials. So any book like this, depending on where we go in the next couple of years in the world, either these books will be everywhere, or they’ll have been edited to replace all of the juicy bits with the names of vegan foods like eggplants.

[01:21:42] So let’s hope that doesn’t happen, but I highly suggest that you pick up a print copy of the book, Your Blueprint for Pleasure. Why am I saying pressure all the time? Pleasure. There you go. Jaiya, thanks, again.

[01:21:58] Jaiya: Oh, it’s been such a pleasure, and thank you for having such a candid conversation and sharing your own stories too. I think it’s important as leaders to speak vulnerably about these places that are so taboo that we don’t want to talk about. Gives other people permission.

[01:22:14] Dave: Yeah, it does. So guys, I would recommend you practice this. Even if you’re single, just do some reading, and you will find the next time you have a date, it’ll be a different date. It’s absolutely worth it. And Jaiya’s onto something. See you all soon. If you liked this episode, I always appreciate support.

[01:22:31] You can go to dangercoffee.com and pick up some of that. Or if you have an Upgrade Labs in your neighborhood, go there, or maybe start one. Go to ownanupgradelabs.com, or just, I don’t know, give someone a hug and send them love with your eyes and your heart, and do that kind of stuff that makes the world a better place too. Just do something for yourself or another to be better. Thank you.